WE MAKIN IT INTO A HIGHER COSMOLOGY WITH THIS ONE🗣🔥 | Archie Sonic, Solaris and Cosmology additions | 0-0-0

[Brogeefrong]

So with the acceptance of possibly 6D Solaris due to being "super-dimensional" compared to maginaryworld for the games in this thread, this could mean a Solaris + Cosmology upgrade
The Super Dimensional Statement should at least possibly apply, as most of Archie Solaris’ abilities are from the game, with a likely rating, including his HDE
What would need to be determined is where does Solaris scale in all of this,
Proposal 1
Solaris, due to following the games scales, he is above the Multiverse/Maginaryworld, but below the Next Evolution and the Chaos Force
If this proposal goes through
Solaris gains, Possibly 6D HDE
The Next Evolution becomes, 6D Possibly 7D
The Chaos Force becomes, 7D Possibly 8D
Off Panel becomes, 8D Possibly 9D
Proposal 2
Solaris, due to being stated to destroy all of space-time, he himself would become higher then The Next Evolution, due to only being the gulf between time and space where the concept of time is irrelevant to them, but still having space, but below The Chaos Force, as it said to be outside of space-time
If this proposal goes through then
Solaris gains Possibly 7D HDE
Chaos Force becomes, 7D Possibly 8D
Off Panel becomes, 8D Possibly 9D
Proposal 3
Solaris being said to destroy everything, which would be the entire Archie Sonic Cosmology, Minus Off Panel
If this proposal goes through
Solaris gains, Possibly 8D HDE
Super Forms gain, Possibly 8D Range
Off Panel becomes, 8D, Possibly 9D
Staff votez
Agreed:
Disagreed:
Neutral:

 

[ShakeResounding]

@ElixirBlue would be best for determining whether or not Solaris is below Next Evolution, I've messaged him to drop by when he gets the chance for his thoughts. If we can ascertain it, that would be best, but I think a possibly might work.

As for Solaris' HDE, I agree since it's just applying an accepted revision to a virtually identical counterpart.

 

[Brogeefrong]

@ElixirBlue would be best for determining whether or not Solaris is below Next Evolution, I've messaged him to drop by when he gets the chance for his thoughts. If we can ascertain it, that would be best, but I think a possibly might work.

How would a possibly rating on possibly rating go through?

 

[ShakeResounding]

"not likely [Tier]"
Jk, idk

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Nice, I agree with everything :3

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Nah Sonic going crazy these days

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

Honestly, I doubt we could pull it off. I considered the “Super Dimensional” line for Archie Solaris. But, the problem is that line was never spoken in any Archie related media or from a creditable source like Dr. Eggman.

It’s possible Solaris to have 6D AP but not existence. Game canon can only go so far in Archie unless the writers put in the work.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Honestly, I doubt we could pull it off. I considered the “Super Dimensional” line for Archie Solaris. But, the problem is that line was never spoken in any Archie related media or from a creditable source like Dr. Eggman.

It’s possible Solaris to have 6D AP but not existence. Game canon can only go so far in Archie unless the writers put in the work.

Dont we considered stuff from the games to go the same way as they did in archie?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Archie Solaris even has Fate Manipulation which comes from just one or two statements from the games

 

[ElixirBlue]

Dont we considered stuff from the games to go the same way as they did in archie?

Depends. Not every adaptations was approached the same way, like Sonic 3D Blast was good-old gag era special, Sonic Adventure’s Archie adaptation was based on the Japanese dub by guys who don’t know Japanese, or the Shadow the Hedgehog adaption, which was 1 issue that took place in Gerald’s digital diary.

Remember, Sonic 06 wasn’t even properly adapted like the previous examples and was done by Ian, who didn’t have a clear understanding of Archie’s cosmology, even if he had the best knowledge out of anyone working on it.

Archie Solaris even has Fate Manipulation which comes from just one or two statements from the games

If it’s based on Sonic 06 and nothing in Archie, it’d probably need to be removed. At best, we could give something akin to it to Archie Solaris through the Ancient Walkers’ Chaos Energy, who enacted Fate Manipulation on Mammoth Mogul and Mogul knew it was happening to him.

Mammoth Mogul is implied to have created Archie Chaos and Archie Solaris through Ixis Magic. We could argue Mogul was trying to fight the Ancient Walkers by making Solaris, because it’s way too powerful for anything other than the Ancient Walkers for Mogul to go after in the Ancient world.

This is guesswork territory. At best, you’d only get a possibility rating.

 

[Brogeefrong]

On Archie Solaris' notes
Solaris never fought within the comics itself, only alluded to sharing similar events as its Game counterpart in the Archie Encyclopedia.
•Outside of the Sonic Encyclopedia, Ian Flynn, Head-writer of Archie Sonic Comics from issue 160 and beyond, stated that elements of Sonic 06 are canon in Archie's Pre-Super Genesis Wave Storyline.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But since possibly 6D was accepted for Solaris, this could effect the Archie Sonic Cosmology

So the main issue with this logic is the transplant. Archie Sonic wouldn't be "possibly 6-D", under the same justification it would just be straight up 6D or 7D for scaling above Maginaryland and scaling to the Chaos Emerald/Chaos force.

The only thing this thread can really do is upgrade Archie Solaris, rather than the cosmology itself.

 

[Brogeefrong]

So the main issue with this logic is the transplant. Archie Sonic wouldn't be "possibly 6-D", under the same justification it would just be straight up 6D or 7D for scaling above Maginaryland and scaling to the Chaos Emerald/Chaos force.

Solaris isnt fully 7D right now, and currently even with the Super Dimensional Stuff his physiology is still below the next evolution even with the 7D justification

 

[Qawsedf234]

Solaris isnt fully 7D right now, and currently even with the Super Dimensional Stuff his physiology is still below the next evolution even with the 7D justification

I know, my point is that the most this thread would do is bump him up to "6D, likely 7D" or just "7D". It wouldn't be a cosmology upgrade.

 

[Brogeefrong]

I know, my point is that the most this thread would do is bump him up to "6D, likely 7D" or just "7D". It wouldn't be a cosmology upgrade.

If The Next Evolution was considered superior to the Possibly 6D Solaris, why wouldn't the cosmology get upgraded?

 

[Qawsedf234]

If The Next Evolution was considered superior to the Possibly 6D Solaris, why wouldn't the cosmology get upgraded?

That's why I said you're doing the transplant thing. Archie Sonic's super-dimensional state applies to the Archie Cosmology, which means the entire verse being collapsed and absorbed into its body is the Archie universe and not the game universe.

So this can't be a Cosmology upgrade, its only a Solaris upgrade.

 

[Eseseso]

That's why I said you're doing the transplant thing. Archie Sonic's super-dimensional state applies to the Archie Cosmology, which means the entire verse being collapsed and absorbed into its body is the Archie universe and not the game universe.

So this can't be a Cosmology upgrade, its only a Solaris upgrade.

So would Solaris simply scale to 7-D possibly 8-D?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So would Solaris simply scale to 7-D possibly 8-D?

It would just be 7-D. 8-D in Archie is based on R>F on viewing the comic as fiction.

 

[Brogeefrong]

That's why I said you're doing the transplant thing. Archie Sonic's super-dimensional state applies to the Archie Cosmology, which means the entire verse being collapsed and absorbed into its body is the Archie universe and not the game universe.

Archie Solaris is only Collapsing and absorbing up to the Game Multiverse, Not the Chaos Force or Next Evolution

 

[Qawsedf234]

Archie Solaris is only Collapsing and absorbing the Game Universe, Not the Chaos Force or Next Evolution

No, Archie Solaris is collapsing and absorbing the Archie cosmology, not the game cosmology. Which is why I said the most you can do here is make Archie Solaris 7D for collapsing and absorbing the lower dimensions and scaling to the post-harmony Chaos Emeralds. There's no upgrade for the cosmology here because Solaris is scaling to the cosmology, which wouldn't change at all.

 

[Brogeefrong]

No, Archie Solaris is collapsing and absorbing the Archie cosmology, not the game cosmology. Which is why I said the most you can do here is make Archie Solaris 7D for collapsing and absorbing the lower dimensions and scaling to the post-harmony Chaos Emeralds. There's no upgrade for the cosmology here because Solaris is scaling to the cosmology, which wouldn't change at all.

Nothing was said about Solaris consuming The Next Evolution or The Chaos Force, he was only said going to consume the Archie's equivalent of the Game Multiverse, because the Archie events of Sonic 06 were playing out like the game, thus his 5D rating

 

[Qawsedf234]

Nothing was said about Solaris consuming The Next Evolution or The Chaos Force, he was only said going to consume the Archie's equivalent of the Game Multiverse, because the Archie events of Sonic 06 were playing out like the game, thus his 5D rating

Then there wouldn't be an upgrade at all with this reasoning. The profile would just remain as is.

Though I don't think it would, since in Archie Maginaryland is treated as Low 1-C here and Game Solaris is treated as scaling above it for now. Which would make it 6D and in the same Void as the Next Evolution, which is still bound by time and space unlike the Chaos Force.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I'm not going to lie here, I think that the events of 06 aren't one to one the same in Archie as they are in the game verse itself. Mainly stemming from Solaris' official character profile in the Sonic Encyclopedia, where no mention of Silver's presence in the story is made within that entire profile.

That's why based off of that information, I personally think that the possibly rating is the best course of action....though if the events of Archie 06 differ from the events of Game 06, then I have doubts of the super dimensional statement being a thing in the Archie continuity.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Then there wouldn't be an upgrade at all with this reasoning. The profile would just remain as is.

Though I don't think it would, since in Archie Maginaryland is treated as Low 1-C here and Game Solaris is treated as scaling above it for now. Which would make it 6D and in the same Void as the Next Evolution, which is still bound by time and space unlike the Chaos Force.

Next Evolutuion isnt bounded by time
i couldnt get the image so i just went to where it was in the cosmology blog

 

[Qawsedf234]

Next Evolutuion isnt bounded by time

Isn't bound by time =/= transcends time. Only the Chaos Force is stated to transcend time and space. Which is why I said that the most I see for Solaris is making it 6-D, likely 7-D or making it 7D for scaling to the Chaos Force via fighting Super Sonic/fusing together with the Chaos Emeralds.

 

[Eseseso]

It would just be 7-D. 8-D in Archie is based on R>F on viewing the comic as fiction.

But what about the "super-dimensional" stuff that made Game Solaris possibly 6D? Or is that not valid in Archie?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Isn't bound by time =/= transcends time. Only the Chaos Force is stated to transcend time and space. Which is why I said that the most I see for Solaris is making it 6-D, likely 7-D or making it 7D for scaling to the Chaos Force via fighting Super Sonic/fusing together with the Chaos Emeralds.

I think Brog's referring to this statement where it's stated that the concept of time is irrelevant in the Next Evolution, which is one of the justifications given for NE being 6-D and then the Chaos Force being above it making it 7-D.

Mind you I'm not an Archie Sonic Cosmology expert, nor am I going to say it's something you'll agree with, but I just wanted to provide you the image that I'm presuming he wanted to share specifically

 

[Qawsedf234]

But what about the "super-dimensional" stuff that made Game Solaris possibly 6D? Or is that not valid in Archie?

It is valid in Archie, but what I'm saying is that Solaris being super-dimensional would be an upgrade for Solaris, not an upgrade for the cosmology.

Mind you I'm not an Archie Sonic Cosmology expert, nor am I going to say it's something you agree, but I just wanted to provide you the image that I'm presuming he wanted to share specifically

I get that part, but what they're saying actually isn't "This realm is above Time and Space" but "This realm is not restricted by Time and Space"

• Even if you had, the concept of time is irrelevant to one such as I -> This is saying that the progression of time doesn't mean much to him, not that he's above time
• Amazing you haven't yet grasped how you're able to bridge the gulf between time and space! -> Still indicates that Knuckles and the people of NE are within the realms of time and space

We know this because the Chaos Force is outside of time and space and transcends NE. So the best case is Solaris scaling to NE since its still within the confines of time/space and then having a secondary key for scaling to the Chaos Force by fighting Super Sonic and Super Shadow.

 

[Brogeefrong]

I think Brog's referring to this statement where it's stated that the concept of time is irrelevant in the Next Evolution, which is one of the justifications given for NE being 6-D and then the Chaos Force being above it making it 7-D.

Mind you I'm not an Archie Sonic Cosmology expert, nor am I going to say it's something you'll agree with, but I just wanted to provide you the image that I'm presuming he wanted to share specifically

Was more that NE is transcendent to the Super Dimensional Solaris, because even before the 6D Solaris stuff, he was already considered Super Dimensional but he was still below the Next Evolution, and why he has 5D instead of 6D

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I get that part, but what they're saying actually isn't "This realm is above Time and Space" but "This realm is not restricted by Time and Space"

• Even if you had, the concept of time is irrelevant to one such as I -> This is saying that the progression of time doesn't mean much to him, not that he's above time
• Amazing you haven't yet grasped how you're able to bridge the gulf between time and space! -> Still indicates that Knuckles and the people of NE are within the realms of time and space

We know this because the Chaos Force is outside of time and space and transcends NE. So the best case is Solaris scaling to NE since its still within the confines of time/space and then having a secondary key for scaling to the Chaos Force by fighting Super Sonic and Super Shadow.

Honestly I think the Low 1-C tier should be removed and Solaris should just be straight up be 1-C as a whole. Not only is he powered by all seven Chaos Emeralds, but the implication is that he fought against Super Sonic and Super Shadow in the Archie version of 06 and that they both had to work together to defeat him. The feat of him consuming all of time and space should just be in his hax since he was doing it by creating localized black holes.

• Amazing you haven't yet grasped how you're able to bridge the gulf between time and space! -> Still indicates that Knuckles and the people of NE are within the realms of time and space

This wasn't aimed towards me, was it? I'm not good at all when it comes to reading tones and where it's directed so I can't tell if this comment was at Brog or me. If it was at Brog then I apologize for assuming

 

[Qawsedf234]

straight up be 1-C as a whole.

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

This wasn't aimed towards me, was it? I'm not good at all when it comes to reading tones and where it's directed so I can't tell if this comment was at Brog or me. If it was at Brog then I apologize for assuming

I was quoting the page you linked.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I was quoting the page you linked.

OOH, that was from the scan I linked....then my bad for claiming that, lol. I guess I just didn't read the scan entirety and assumed that comment was meant for someone so my fault for that.

But yeah Solaris' Low 1-C rating should just be omitted if he has blatant 1-C scaling and is powered by a 1-C source of power, if no Sonic supporter or someone interested in it makes a CRT about it then I might do it myself

 

[Eseseso]

Tbh, I don't see the issue with making Solaris possibly 8D and bumping up Off-Panel to "8-D, possibly 9-D"

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Tbh, I don't see the issue with making Solaris possibly 8D and bumping up Off-Panel to "8-D, possibly 9-D"

So what would your idea be in terms of scaling? That Solaris scales to possibly 8-D due to the statement of him being a superdimensional statement likely still being a thing in the Archie continuity, Super Sonic and Super Shadow scale to that due to fighting him, and then anyone who scales to or above those two also get the possibly 8-D thing?

I'm personally skeptical of 06 being one to one the same in Archie due to the Encyclopedia making no mention of Silver's presence in the story, making the existence of Eggman's statement in the comic dubious at best, but since Silver's Super form does officially appear in that same Encyclopedia then I'm willing to play devil's advocate and accept that statement being there.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Are we going from the Next Evolution is above Solaris, to Solaris is above the Chaos Force

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are we going from the Next Evolution is above Solaris, to Solaris is above the Chaos Force

No, or at least I don't think so.

Solaris would just scale to the Chaos Force and above NE/the normal multiverse.

 

[Eseseso]

So what would your idea be in terms of scaling? That Solaris scales to possibly 8-D due to the statement of him being a superdimensional statement likely still being a thing in the Archie continuity, Super Sonic and Super Shadow scale to that due to fighting him, and then anyone who scales to or above those two also get the possibly 8-D thing?

I'm personally skeptical of 06 being one to one the same in Archie due to the Encyclopedia making no mention of Silver's presence in the story, making the existence of Eggman's statement in the comic dubious at best, but since Silver's Super form does officially appear in that same Encyclopedia then I'm willing to play devil's advocate and accept that statement being there.

I'm fine with us not using the superdimensional statement for Archie, if need be.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Is current Archie Solaris on the level of NE or not