Warframe Minor Ability and Category additions and Composite Profile

[Firephoenixearl]

Good point, perhaps a link to the list of Warframes. If we have been tagging the frames under the tag Warframes, then there should be a link page we can post on the profile itself.
Essentially we just have a note stating "For a full list of Warframes the Operator can use, click here"

Don't worry i am already working on it.

But a category like "Warframes" would be useful imo.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok the profile is done:

The Operator

I tried my best to make it as easy to read and understand as i could.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Zaratthustra]

On the With Warframes tabber, it should be like this: All previous stats, then all Frames abilities/stats. then With Mods, With Companions, With Weapons, With Gear and With Archwing should have their own sub-tabbers.. While the Resistances should be in the same tabber with - With Waframes, but at the end of it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Now there is 1 last thing that needs to be solved. And that's the potency of mindhax coming from the operator and the resistance to mindhax the operator hax.

Both scale to The Main In The Wall who is the embodiment of a void energy (a mind and soul haxing energy that is a universe of it's own basically).

So the deal is "how strong is this?".

 

[Firephoenixearl]

On the With Warframes tabber, it should be like this: All previous stats, then all Frames abilities/stats. then With Mods, With Companions, With Weapons, With Gear and With Archwing should have their own sub-tabbers.. While the Resistances should be in the same tabber with - With Waframes, but at the end of it.

I smell more work.... xD

 

[Zaratthustra]

It's too confusing and hard to look over all of them if there will be a battle using The Operator.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Tmitw has literally two feats and neither of which can really be quantified.

One is driving Rell, who was already kinda off in the head, mad over a long time.

The other is kinda sorta mindhaxing the operator after we consumed kuva which clearly either lowers our resistance or makes him stronger, based on his dialog and the fact that Rell's control was weakened after tww it is likely the second one

Also he isn't really an embodiment of void energy he is just an entity created by the tenno's experience in the void

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah ok, im just not up for it right now. xD

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok done @Zara.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They didn't control the frame there
The frame used its basic preservation instincts like Rhino in the codex

Every other time they used their conciousness, even Ordis comments at the end of the War Within asking "Where are you going" and saying "Don't leave me". Those words would make no sense if the operator were not either physically possessing the frames(which can easily be seen to be false) or transfering their conciousness into the frames and Ordis would know how transference works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PquOK38zrvs
6:38 Hunhow comments how the warframes have "no self, no sense, and no death, just a metal puppet dancing on tenno strings" (which even more implies energy control rather than consciousness transfer).

10:53 Transferrence as described by the Lotus, is basically "The mind of the operator projected into a surrogate body" (Which further implies that it's just projected, not transferred, they project their movements into the warframes, and not literally have their minds inside the warframe).

About Umbra moving, no, not exactly. Umbra is living. He's the ONLY warframe that can move with or without void energy. The void energy just overrrides his control, he doesn't need it to move. When the void energy is out, he can freely move, but when it is in things change as the operator is controling his movements.

Ordis statement, makes no sense either way. Ordis talks to the warframe even during the quest (in mission), i mean when the warframe (you) are in mission the operator and ordis have long chats this was especially in the sacrifice quest. So if the operator is not in the ship how can he talk to ordis, or how can ordis talk to him? Moreover if Ordis can talk to us even when we're not inside the ship why did he worry about us "leaving him" during The War Within. It seems pretty clear that ordis just misread the operator's intention or the operator did a physical possession that one time (only for the quest then controled through void energy). The operator transferring his consciouness would not be the case as ordis can still talk to him either way (so it's 1 of the options i mentioned above).

Not exactly, they don't have to be asleep. They "had" to be asleep cus of the somatic link device, not anymore as they are active during missions and quests, if they were asleep most of their talking during quests and missions would be rendered null. Just the fact that we see the operator moving and talking to ordis while the warframe is in mission proves that the operator doesn't transfer his consciousness but rather just controls them using void avatars.

@Paul this is what i meant by "i had the last argument on the consciousness".

 

[Paul_Frank]

Oh ok

Ill counter that in a bit but before that I just want to point out that you can literally speak through the warframe. Like actual english words

 

[Paul_Frank]

So as to hunhow's comment, it is literally proven wrong less than a minute later, when the frame uses the last of its juice and its basic instincts to fight back and break War.

Lotus using projection instead of transfer doesn't really disprove the fact that the consciousness is put into the frames.

Project can mean to extend outward beyond something else, as in they extend their consciousness beyond their body into the frame.

Lotus also says that transference "Felt like waking up. But it was just a lucid second dream", you can not "wake up" just by putting energy into something else, you would need your consciousness. Same thing with the lucid part. You are lucid because it seems like you are awake since your consciousness is in the frame.

Rhino prime says hello

Actually Ordis' statement does make sense. He tells you not to leave him since you are putting your consciousness into the frame. Even if he can talk to you while you are in the frames that doesn't change the fact that your consciousness leaves the ship and thus you leave Ordis which is what he wanted to avoid. He also mentioned that your brain activity flat-lined and was worried your mind was destroyed by the surge which makes no sense if only energy is involved

Execpt the Operator is notably asleep while you have a frame out on your ship. Also as shown during tww, you can talk with the frame so it is quite possible that the voice lines from the operator are just them talking through the frame.

The warframes are not only metal they are biological being made with the infestation. Hence them being called infested puppets, and all the other references by knowledgeable characters speaking about the frames being biological in a sense. The ascaris for instance attaches to the spine of the frame to control its motor functions. The Operator is just capable of putting their consciousness into the frames to control them, which now that I think about it, is also supported by the fact that some of the more animalistic frames, i.e Rhino Prime, Nidus etc, don't just kill everyone which is what they would do if the operator only put energy into them, since as seen in Rhino Prime's codex even without being controlled he was slaughtering everyone friend or foe. If it were just energy the frames would slaughter everything no mercy due to the infested plague being what created them but since the Operator controls the frame this is prevented.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

At this point it's just that we interpret the same things differently.

I interpret "projection of the mind" as projecting your will to the frames or acting with your frames instead of your own, while you interpret it as "transfer".

You interpret ordis saying "don't leave" as "consciousness transfer" i interpret it as "physical transfer" (which makes a lot more sense). About ordis saying "your mind flat lined" that was before transferrence, let's not mix up the 2 here. Wait, the operator does leave physically go there in the quest. So i guess i win. Jokes on you

About talking through the warframe, you're just flat wrong there though. Since we do see the operator speaking as in physically speaking to ordis in the little windows. It's the operator that is talking, not the warframe.

About the Animalistic Rhino not slaughtering everyone, well as i said "their movements are controlled by the void energy" (body puppetry). They ain't breaking free of that control anytime soon. Idk why you're making a difference here, visually there would be no difference between The Operator controlling from afar or the operator transfering his consciousness. The fact that he can still speak kind of proves that it's not consciousness transfer though.

And TMiTW speaks to you even if you don't consume the Kuva, don't forget that.

 

[Paul_Frank]

That's an avatar you create during the fight as seen by the fact you fade away if you die in that fight

Yeah it shows the operator speaking because they didn't want to program the window to show every single frame with each combination of skin, helmet, color, or weapon showing up in the window, so they show the operator who has been able to talk through the frames before.

As I said above the speaking is most likely through the frames as shown in tww. I guess you're right in that there wouldn't be much of a visual difference

Yeah I forgot that since let's be honest here, everyone drank the kuva hoping for some sort of power guess it's just Rell's control weakening after tww

It seems like we are both going to stick with our interpretations though so I'm not sure what to do here

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah but she states "you came here in the flesh". Besides i don't think you can die in that fight. IIRC your health just stays at 100.

That's totally your headcannon. Im more inclined to say it's the operator actually speaking rather than DE was lazy, or they would have just not shown anything as the game played and just have the captions at the bottom of the screen like it shows when no one in particular is speaking.

Ikr, DE keeps toying with our expectations

The lesser is taken as true which means it's just controlling energy and not transferring consciousness

Besides, let's face it, i have the better arguments here

 

[Paul_Frank]

Better arguements is a big no

It also doesn't make sense for it to be only energy for the reasons i've stated

Make it a vote simple fix

Also have you removed time travel yet since we both established they can't do it

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Admit it and we can all go home

Which are the reasons again?

Yes i did remove time travel. I hate you

I don't think it can be based on votes really. This is a pretty big difference we'r talking about. I don't think it'd be ok to settle it with votes.

But again the lesser is taken as true, which means void energy.

 

[Paul_Frank]

That's a funny joke

Ordis says don't leave me referring to your consciousness leaving the ship. He also mentioned that your brain activity flat-lined and was worried your mind was destroyed by the surge which makes no sense if only energy is involved

Lotus says they project their minds and then says it is like "waking up" but it's really just "a lucid second dream" implying their consciousness is involved

The frames clearly have their own will and instincts as show in the codex and at the end of the second dream, this is overridden by the operator's own consciousness during transference

The wiki even says consciousness is transfered The same wiki you ctrl+c ctrl+v'd The Operator's description from until you changed it just to spite me

The Operator is literally asleep if you walk up to them with a warframe from what I remember

Have you not seen how many important crts are decided based on votes

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm in argreement with Paul.

Maybe ask IMade? he's a big Warframe fan.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The queens prove it was physical transferrence that one time.

That's just how you interpret it, not an actual fact. The projection is more implying Energy Projection whereas the dream comes from the fact that this is Pre-Transferrence tenno, when they were using the somatic link to connect.

Yes, but that can be done even through void energy, without needing consciousness transfer.

It wasn't me though. The dude who made the profile ctrl+c+v'd it. I only ctrl+z'd it.

Not rly, you can't see that.

 

[Paul_Frank]

It was not physical transference. The avatar you send out fades away upon dying even during the quest as opposed you the operator dying there.

She says the project their mind not that they project their power so it doesn't really imply energy projection as opposed to consciousness projection.

Not so sure about that

So you vandalized the profile smh my head

I want you to walk up to your operator while you have a frame out. Until you interact with them their eyes are closed afaik

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's what the queen states and as i said IIRC the operator cannot take damage in that quest. The rest is just the operator being able to dash and shit. The queen did state that the operator there was physical, that along with the operator "leaving ordis" seems like a flat out occasional teleport.

Yes, but it is more implied to be in a case of "The mind controls the body", similarly the operator's mind "controls the warframe", but it's through void energy. So it's not that their mind is put into the warframes, but their abilities work as a mind for the operator. As stated even by Ballas.

Walk up to the operator? You can't tell me what to do I'll remember to do that sometime (i don't play wf as often rn though.