Victor and Juiz upgrade.

[Arkenis]

Superior Artifacts

The superior artifacts as stated are capable of killing Sun, though how concrete or how exactly this is done is not exactly certain. What we do know is that Aegis, the shield, is capable of withstanding attacks from Sun for five whole minutes. Next Rebellion is capable of knocking back and piercing Sun.

What I propose is for both to be rated 7-B since they are superior to the Nyoi Kinko Staff and Zuishin Zekkan Rod

So essentially Juiz and Victor need this applied to their pages. I've already made Rebellion's page here.

Aegis will simply be labeled as prep on Andy's page

 

[LaserPrecision]

Should note that it's at LEAST Small Planet level on account of it literally being turning the planet into small bits. However, it doesn't seem like the GBE was overcome considered it was saying the pieces of previous planet would've orbited around the new world after it was created. Meaning the GBE of Earth (Baseline Planet level on the wiki IIRC) wasn't overpowered.

At the very least, they'd scale to the energy required to violent frag Earth's volume. Which should be fairly above baseline Small Planet level at least, but may not be planet level. Might be hard to calc violent fragging earth tho since it's not just made of one material, but rather many MANY different materials (You also need to account for the core and stuff).

 

[Quangotjokes]

I agree, although narratively it should just be baseline.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Straightforward and simple. I'm also a bit more bias on the baseline part.

 

[Xxiaa]

Agree, Undead Unluck as a verse is extremely underrated good to see it getting the attention

 

[Arkenis]

Agree, Undead Unluck as a verse is extremely underrated good to see it getting the attention

Look at the pages i made find matches for billy and seal

 

[Damage3245]

Juiz and Victor don't scale to Sun even with Rebellion; they can barely stall him and have showed no signs of actually hurting Sun.

Just pushing a character isn't a good reason to scale.

I don't think we should make any changes until the next chapter or two. We've got to see how this fight concludes.

 

[Arkenis]

Juiz and Victor don't scale to Sun even with Rebellion; they can barely stall him and have showed no signs of actually hurting Sun.

Just pushing a character isn't a good reason to scale.

I don't think we should make any changes until the next chapter or two. We've got to see how this fight concludes.

I sited the fact that Luna made them specifically to kill Sun, Aegis scales to his attacks, why would Rebellion not scale?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Look at the pages i made find matches for billy and seal

Tbh Billy's pretty hard to find a match for lol. I'm looking tho, but I am thinking of pitting him against Cole. In general we need more UxU matches

Edit - I think I can agree with waiting a chap to see if we can implement changes

 

[Damage3245]

I sited the fact that Luna made them specifically to kill Sun, Aegis scales to his attacks, why would Rebellion not scale?

It has the potential to do so, but as we can clearly see from Juiz' and Victor's attempts, their usage of it was insufficient.

 

[Arkenis]

It has the potential to do so, but as we can clearly see from Juiz' and Victor's attempts, their usage of it was insufficient.

Insufficient or not doesnt take away from its own potency though. You realize there can be a gap within the power of them. Right now you aren’t following the narrative at all and are ignoring Aegis being stated and shown to take attacks from Sun.

 

[Damage3245]

Insufficient or not doesnt take away from its own potency though. You realize there can be a gap within the power of them. Right now you aren’t following the narrative at all and are ignoring Aegis being stated and shown to take attacks from Sun.

Attacks from Sun against the two of them aren't necessarily equal to destroying the planet; we haven't seen how Sun actually destroys the Earth yet.

And Rebellion has no inherent potency on its own; it's powered by the hatred and lifeforce of the ones who use it.

Either way, we should wait for this fight to be over which it will be most likely next chapter.

 

[Arkenis]

Attacks from Sun against the two of them aren't necessarily equal to destroying the planet; we haven't seen how Sun actually destroys the Earth yet.

We’re told how he did it in the past, I put this in Rebellion’s page.

And Rebellion has no inherent potency on its own; it's powered by the hatred and lifeforce of the ones who use it.

And that potency has allowed them to knock back Sun. Can you explain why knocking back Sun isn’t a feat of power?

Edit: Just remembered this but she stabbed Sun as well with it.

 

[Arkenis]

And im fine with waiting, but the superior artifacts not scaling seems a bit unusual, especially since we know Victor used rebellion numerous times in loops before

 

[Quangotjokes]

Luna: “Superb, a single persons hatred was enough to hold back sun for 5 minutes”

I think it’s pretty evident Juiz should scale with rebellion. Sun not taking damage just means he’s a tank, but he was temporarily overpowered.

 

[Damage3245]

Sun wasn't being held back because he was overpowered; Juiz was on his back and attacking him from behind while Victor covered her with Aegis. Sun simply wasn't advancing and was focused on trying to attack her and Victor.

The force of Rebellion while Juiz was wielding it wasn't overpowering Sun.

 

[Arkenis]

The force of Rebellion while Juiz was wielding it wasn't overpowering Sun.

Luna tells us it was holding him back for five minutes. You just ignoring to ignore. Also Juiz stabbed him that's direct scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

Luna tells us it was holding him back for five minutes. You just ignoring to ignore. Also Juiz stabbed him that's direct scaling.

Holding him off for 5 minutes because they were at a stalemate. And have you seen the size difference between Juiz and Sun? That kind of difference is actually really relevant when it comes to scaling off of durability.

Anyway, I don't think I need to say any more on the topic. I've fine waiting to see this fight's conclusion.

 

[Arkenis]

Alright well I'll just list the things making it scale to him for now.


First: The superior artifacts are capable of killing Sun, this means the power from them is able to hurt/kill him. Rebellion is used via the user's hatred, Juiz has showed us the greatest hatred so far with it being above Victor.

Second: When Juiz used it she is able to hold back Sun for five minutes. She also is able to stab him. Luna considers such a feat incredible meaning it hasn't happened prior which tells us this is the greatest output with it so far.

Third: From what we know, Aegis has been able to stop attacks from Sun in loops past and now as well. It does begin to crack in this loop but regardless this still shows us that the superior artifacts scale to Sun as they're meant to.

Fourth: (Mainly responding to Damage) Rebellion doesn't need to overpower Sun to scale, just damage and or hold back which it does both.

 

[Quangotjokes]

They weren't at a stalemate, if they wasn't damaging sun like you suggested then they'd have to be physically holding him back for him to be stalled 5 minutes.

 

[Arkenis]

Alright leaks do show Sun basically ramming the sun into earth so i guess 5-B with the sun unless God shows us something different. God can be 6-B though if not.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Alright leaks do show Sun basically ramming the sun into earth so i guess 5-B with the sun unless God shows us something different. God can be 6-B though if not.

Ramming the sun into Earth is FAR more than 5-B

 

[Arkenis]

Ramming the sun into Earth is FAR more than 5-B

Well that assumes its the real size sun

 

[LaserPrecision]

Well that assumes its the real size sun

Well why wouldn't we assume the sun is the same size as the real sun? We assume Earth is the same size as Earth or even assume random planets are the same size as earth when doing calcs

 

[Arkenis]

Well why wouldn't we assume the sun is the same size as the real sun? We assume Earth is the same size as Earth or even assume random planets are the same size as earth when doing calcs

Ok nvm, I had always thought the sun was much smaller but looking at it now it's just in the background of Sun so nvm. Yeah this would be like high 4-C right? maybe solar system not sure. Also his lifting strength is insane lol

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ok nvm, I had always thought the sun was much smaller but looking at it now it's just in the background of Sun so nvm. Yeah this would be like high 4-C right? maybe solar system not sure. Also his lifting strength is insane lol

Yea, it'd prolly be Large Star level at least. Though I doubt KE is applicable since I'm betting the speed he moved it at exceeds lightspeed since the Sun is
1. Massive
2. Several minutes away from Earth at lightspeed

So if he moved it to earth in seconds, that's FTL. But there are other ways to calc this.

Yes, LS would be cracked as hell. Stellar level bare minimum.

 

[Damage3245]

In future, you shouldn't discuss chapters that haven't even come out yet on a CRT. Save it for after the official release happens.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Wait did it move the earth or the sun?

 

[Arkenis]

unsure rn but it seems the sun was moved

 

[Quangotjokes]

unsure rn but it seems the sun was moved

Interesting, would make God and the others higher than planet level with rebellion if God tanked it

 

[Arkenis]

bump

 

[Quangotjokes]

So what's the consensus here?

 

[Damage3245]

So what's the consensus here?

I'm still against this upgrade for reasons I outlined earlier.

Neither Juiz not Victor did anything significant to Sun that would warrant them scaling.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I'm still against this upgrade for reasons I outlined earlier.

Neither Juiz not Victor did anything significant to Sun that would warrant them scaling.

Shouldn't they scale to its physicals for being able to hold it back? They might just be tanks considering they could endure Earth crashing into the sun.

 

[Arkenis]

So given the recent chapter, are we still for them being 5b or against it and now think a different thing should be chosen?

 

[Quangotjokes]

I’m still got it, 7B characters wouldn’t be able to slow Sun down.

 

[Damage3245]

Sun just walking isn't Tier 5.

The actual destruction of the Earth was shown to be the Earth colliding with the star; the various giant Sun bodies didn't show 5-B destruction / AP.

 

[Arkenis]

I’m still got it, 7B characters wouldn’t be able to slow Sun down.

True

 

[Arkenis]

Sun just walking isn't Tier 5.

The actual destruction of the Earth was shown to be the Earth colliding with the star; the various giant Sun bodies didn't show 5-B destruction / AP.

Well no, but him being held back and pushed back by Juiz for five minutes and Victor doing it to several of them shows just how relative they are. And Sun lives through the destruction of earth and the sun colliding so its definitely at least 5-B. Holding up several other additions and crt I need to do

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't holding anything up, you can post other CRTs.