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Verse Specific Powers and Abilities Corrections or Removals

Arkenis

They/Them
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With this thread, there are new rules to follow when applying VSPA to characters. I've given several examples, and those will be removed or reworked to fit the new standard. This is not just for these examples either, if you support a verse and think some VSPA is being applied too broadly or incorrectly through made up leveling or else, then discuss so here.

Edit: Please do not use this thread to argue in. If you have a vsp, and disagree with how it's PNA is being applied, make a CRT and promote it here. I'll check it in here so everyone knows what's got a crt.

Here are the rules:
  1. An ability is regular only if it is consistently shown, practiced, acknowledged, and stated within the energy system. Merely having multiple characters perform it, isn't enough. An example is Chakra's Free Movement ability that ninjas learn early on. This is something shown, practiced, acknowledged and stated to be something all ninjas can do through skill.
  2. If there is reasonable support or logic that a character could perform an ability, assign a “Likely” rating for clarity.
  3. Do not apply leveling unless the story clearly defines and characterizes it (e.g., Jonin, Special Grade Sorcerer, Daikaiju, Liners, etc.).

Within Naruto pages a reoccurring group of hax keep being given with the simplistic justification that High level Shinobi with vast and/or powerful chakra have consistently shown the ability to produce an aura. This is fine reasoning but the issue is blanketing it as something any character could/would do. If it's to be given the character should have an example, if not then it should be Likely so people reading the pages understand this is something that could happen not a standard in vs matches.

Additionally, some of these examples are pointless and don't convey much:
0292-008.png

Sakura's feeling Biju chakra here, not regular chakra. Two different things, it has the special trait of feeling distinctly different and shouldn't be an example of "kage level". But also it just feels bad/evil, it isn't madness inducing or fear haxing Sakura or Yamato right here and they aren't Kage level at all.

0047-008.png

This is said twice to be an illusion casted by Orochimaru. And it's likely the same thing he did to Kakashi. But even if it is just aura, not everyone does this, so why is it being labeled as though it's standard?
0047-009.png
0047-012.png
Likely rating or total removal for anyone who doesn't show it. When will there be an in-depth Chakra pna page?

It's a couple hax listed that everyone in the listing shouldn't have.
These aren't "advance" abilities, that isn't a stated or acknowledged thing in the story. Walking on water is never shown for anyone else, not even the cursed spirit who is naturally used to using cursed energy walks on water. Why would Reggie be advance? Now he scales to Todo's skill and Hakari's output/quantity?
0015-005.png
0047-003.png
0047-008.png


Same with the resistances.
Besides the heat/fire resistance, why would we scale "advance sorcerers" to Hakari's infinite cursed energy? Not tryna get into scaling, just shouldn't be there bar Yuta and Sukuna and even they're iffy since they don't have Hakari's quantity which is the other half of the required traits to resist the electricity. Soul Manipulation is its own thing, it should be given to basically the whole cast or just first grade and above.
I've given my opinion here, so soul and heat resistance are fine to stay, the rest of the stuff isn't. It only belongs on those who do it. Also Advance should just be first grade.

So ghouls in Tokyo Ghoul show the ability to hear/sense at a greater level than humans, great enough it's something they have to train for. I fell into the mistake of granting this "Experienced Ghouls" section as though that's something acknowledged in the story. It isn't, and the fact no one does it to Irimi's extent, Ayato says he isn't good as Miza or Hinami, and Shirazu has to tap a wall to utilize the sensing, it comes off as not an experienced ghoul trait, but rather something activatable. I'd suggest removing entirely or labeling it as activatable in the general Ghoul pna.
Total removal from the page or just list it as something activatable, not a standard attribute all Ghouls can do.
 
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Should these be included?
 
Completely disagree with the JJK example, outside of advanced being changed to first grade or above, but CE page itself is in a need of a rework so that should be done in a separate thread tbh
this is almost basic sorcerer skill, literally just manipulating your CE to focus it in one place, how does it not fit for everyone?
Free Movement (Walking; Reggie was able to stand on non-tangible, permeable shadow by reinforcing his feet with cursed energy)
This is too, just sorcerers/curses focusing CE at their feet, someone not doing it like Hanami (because why would they need that, the water is at their feet level) does not mean all sorcerers cannot do that lol. Quite literally one of the scans you provide includes Gojo standing on water and allowing Yuji to stand on water too
It says in the scan yet again... both quantity and output can mitigate Kashimo's CE trait, therefore meaning everyone who scales to Hakari can resist the same. Base Hakari himself has shown to not be affected by Kashimo's ce trait in the fight. Again proving just output is enough and you dont need to have absurd quantity of CE, ie falls under advanced sorcerer which is grade 1 or above
And this can just be moved for everyone as you said and doesn't need to be removed
 
Should these be included?
Barring maybe some abilities in that could be adjusted, most of these are just inherent and existential traits rather than learned abilities or techniques.
 
Barring maybe some abilities in that could be adjusted, most of these are just inherent and existential traits rather than learned abilities or techniques.
Then what do you think about the leveling part of the abilities? Ex: Low tier and High tier demons (DMC).
 
This too

Here's an examples on this page of extremely specific powers possessed by specific spells/items or people being treated as general abilities
Literally using an abilities unique to a specific objects (Charms of Bezel) worn by Gwen and coveted by Hex at the time and pretending it's some general power of mana manipulation
 
I feel like this should be case by case.

In Marvel, for example, there are many spells that are shown as available to any sorcerer who is skilled enough, even those who haven't actually been shown using them.
 
This too

Here's an examples on this page of extremely specific powers possessed by specific spells/items or people being treated as general abilities

Literally using an abilities unique to a specific objects (Charms of Bezel) worn by Gwen and coveted by Hex at the time and pretending it's some general power of mana manipulation
Spells and Charms are powered by Mana which is a spesific power what is the real issue with this?
 
Should these be included?
idk about GoW or Marvel Magic but

1. Why?. It is literally called Demon Physiology?. It is their literal Physiology allows them to have those abilities

2. Why is Time Power even there?. Literally when you get the power you have access to all those abilities. Demigra after absorbing Tokitoki can instantly use EE, if not for plot dude would have EE'd the FW. Same with SDBH Fu who absorbed Dogidogi, dude can use every ability as well. SSB:UT Goku also the same. The only thing in Time Power that you need to learn is the potency of it. For example Aios being older than Chronoa, have longer time in using the power, allowing her to have higher potency than Chronoa, in turn she has better hax layer and resistance

Anyway i need to sleep now bruhh
 
You can point out any specific problems you have. I see no need of modifications even with these new "standards", since we already adhere to them by default since we made those pages. Those are internally consistent.
I mean does DMC specified rankings for demons? As mentioned in the OP, levelings is only allowed for verses that specify it (example such as JJK ranking the levels of sorcerors by Grade 3, Grade 2, Grade 1 and Special Grade).
 
Spells and Charms are powered by Mana which is a spesific power what is the real issue with this?
Every application of magic is powered by mana but this does not mean that every ability displayed by some random object using magic is inherent to all users of magic in the same way every Jutsu in naruto is powered by chakra but you don't see Naruto supporters putting the "Molecular Matter Manipulation" achievable through atomic dismantling jutsu on the Chakra page as something inherent to Chakra itself.

Don't be obtuse about this
 
idk about GoW or Marvel Magic but

1. Why?. It is literally called Demon Physiology?. It is their literal Physiology allows them to have those abilities

2. Why is Time Power even there?. Literally when you get the power you have access to all those abilities. Demigra after absorbing Tokitoki can instantly use EE, if not for plot dude would have EE'd the FW. Same with SDBH Fu who absorbed Dogidogi, dude can use every ability as well. SSB:UT Goku also the same. The only thing in Time Power that you need to learn is the potency of it. For example Aios being older than Chronoa, have longer time in using the power, allowing her to have higher potency than Chronoa, in turn she has better hax layer and resistance

Anyway i need to sleep now bruhh
1. Just wanted to know if their leveling system still qualifies or no.
2. Ok.
 
I mean does DMC specified rankings for demons? As shown in the OP, levelings is only allowed for verses that specify it (example such as JJK ranking the levels of sorcerors by Grade 3, Grade 2, Grade 1 and Special Grade).
DMC is not an RPG game and Demon World isn't some corporate or governement organisation ranking their members based on seniority or performance. What does ranking and levelling even mean here?

That page is equivalent of science encyclopedia made after observing the nature and classifying species/genus looking at animals or classifying celestial objects looking at space etc. It's simple physiology dude.
 
Every application of magic is powered by mana but this does not mean that every ability displayed by some random object using magic is inherent to all users of magic in the same way every Jutsu in naruto is powered by chakra but you don't see Naruto supporters putting the "Molecular Matter Manipulation" achievable through atomic dismantling jutsu on the Chakra page as something inherent to Chakra itself.

Don't be obtuse about this
The categories are seperated as Mana | Spells, for Mana the important things are true names, true names of the spells allows the Mana Manipulators to cast the spells, anyone who is skilled in this subject can perform those spells, it was shown by the People of Ledgerdomain like Charmcaster, Hex etc. they just need to work on their Mana powers, the powers are quite accessible by any manipulator of Mana, Bezel's charms aren't spesifically on the page it's just the emotional desires thing is mentioned, their abilities are mentioned in Hex's page which is the user of them
 
The categories are seperated as Mana | Spells, for Mana the important things are true names, true names of the spells allows the Mana Manipulators to cast the spells, anyone who is skilled in this subject can perform those spells, it was shown by the People of Ledgerdomain like Charmcaster, Hex etc.
That's wholly irrelevant to my point...

You or whoever made that asinine page put Subjective Reality within the section for Mana Manipulation meaning it is categorized as an inherent quality/power of manipulating mana by virtue of the Charms of Bezel having been shown to do this, Keep in mind this isn't even applicable to all the charms separately, it's a power only usable by specifically the Luck charm or after all charms are brought together to be used in tandem + It's specific to to charms not inherent to manipulating mana in general

Your asinine comeback was to say that mana fuels all spells/charms to which I pointed out, using the example of Chakra, that this is the case for literally every ******* verse with a centralized energy source for a specific types of power but the wiki does not grant them powers of random objects using said energy as inherent to manipulating it


they just need to work on their Mana powers, the powers are quite accessible by any manipulator of Mana, Bezel's charms aren't spesifically on the page it's just the emotional desires thing is mentioned, their abilities are mentioned in Hex's page which is the user of them
The examples provided as proof are exclusively of the charms.

Stop being obtuse
 
Anyway, I stand by the fact this should have at most been a hub for revision threads for specific verses. As it stands, discussing close to a dozen different verses at the same time is unfeasible.
Bro is Ki Manipulation gonna get involved here
 
their abilities are mentioned in Hex's page which is the user of them
You have to either be blind, suffering from a rare selective version of Alzheimer's or just acting stupid for this to be an actual part of your response when on Hex own page these abilities are literally in reference to when he has the charms...
Are you just acting really obtuse?

I want everyone to just gawk at the sheer stupidity of the current Ben 10 Pages....

An abilities possessed by the charms is listed on the MANA MANIPULATION section of the page, implying it's a general ability anyone who manipulates mana has yet simultaneously they are listed on Hex own page in his WITH EQUIPMENT section, meaning it's acknowledge he can't do them without having access to the charms... Yet he himself qualifies for all abilities in the Mana Manipulation section...
 
That's wholly irrelevant to my point...

You or whoever made that asinine page put Subjective Reality within the section for Mana Manipulation meaning it is categorized as an inherent quality/power of manipulating mana by virtue of the Charms of Bezel having been shown to do this, Keep in mind this isn't even applicable to all the charms separately, it's a power only usable by specifically the Luck charm or after all charms are brought together to be used in tandem + It's specific to to charms not inherent to manipulating mana in general

Your asinine comeback was to say that mana fuels all spells/charms to which I pointed out, using the example of Chakra, that this is the case for literally every ******* verse with a centralized energy source for a specific types of power but the wiki does not grant them powers of random objects using said energy as inherent to manipulating it



The examples provided as proof are exclusively of the charms.

Stop being obtuse
The first example "The charms seem to react to Gwen's emotional desires - like wanting to embarrass Ben" is not actually referencing to Bezel's charms, charm in this content meant to be a spell that Gwen did it with her Spellbook, the second one is about all Charms of Bezel allowing the the user to bring the spells to reality in extend the problem about this is the second evidence yes Charms spesific powers are not accessible by any manipulator of mana but only one of them, Bezel is the most powerful sorcerer in Ben 10 who made those charms i do agree this part can be deleted if neccecary
You have to either be blind, suffering from a rare selective version of Alzheimer's or just acting stupid for this to be an actual part of your response when on Hex own page these abilities are literally in reference to when he has the charms...

Are you just acting really obtuse?

I want everyone to just gawk at the sheer stupidity of the current Ben 10 Pages....

The ability of subjective reality possessed the charms is listed on the MANA MANIPULATION section of the page, implying it's a general ability anyone who manipulates mana has yet simultaneously they are listed on Hex own page in his WITH EQUIPMENT section meaning it's acknowledge he can't do them without having access to ynt charms
no need to be angry on that i was trying to understand what is wrong here and your tone isn't really needed in here so stop this behaviour
 
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Shouldn't this be moved to Wiki Page Collaborations? Because, like, a CRT? There are over 200 of these pages, some with dozens of supporters.

I think discussing dozens of pages that have dozens of powers with dozens of supporters each wouldn't work very well.
 
The first example "The charms seem to react to Gwen's emotional desires - like wanting to embarrass Ben" is not actually referencing to Bezel's charms, charm in this content meant to be a spell that Gwen did it with her Spellbook
It's a copied message from an earlier episode, specifically where she does have the charms.

she's obviously not using a "charm" so the text saying "charms" makes 0 sense in that scene and text is literally copied from the actual charm episode word for word but if you remove the charm from the equation then the statement doesn't actually qualify as "Subjective Reality" to begin with.

It only qualifies in the charm episode because the luck charm she's using actually warps reality, creating improbably events, to embarrass Ben while in the "Don't drink the water" episode it's not actually warping anything, Gwen just casts a spell intended to generate water and all that happens is that she splash it on max & Ben.

On another notes I'm scrolling through the episode RN and I cannot for the life of me even find the scene the image for the added trivia thing would have been where Gwen would be poured water on Ben & max in the rust bucket via magic, it's looking like it wasn't even party of the released episode and more like a deleted scene
the second one is about all Charms of Bezel allowing the the user to bring the spells to reality in extend the problem about this is the second evidence yes Charms spesific powers are not accessible by any manipulator of mana, Bezel is the most powerful sorcerer in Ben 10 who made those charms i do agree this part can be deleted if neccecary
Without the luck Charm as part of the justification the first statement no longer qualifies for subjective reality at all and the second is all the charms so either way Subjective reality needs to get thrown out the gates

no need to be angry on that i was trying to understand what is wrong here and your tone isn't really needed in here so stop this behaviour
Aight, my fault G.
 
It's a copied message from an earlier episode, specifically where she does have the charms.

she's obviously not using a "charm" so the text saying "charms" makes 0 sense in that scene and text is literally copied from the actual charm episode word for word but if you remove the charm from the equation then the statement doesn't actually qualify as "Subjective Reality" to begin with.

It only qualifies in the charm episode because the luck charm she's using actually warps reality, creating improbably events, to embarrass Ben while in the "Don't drink the water" episode it's not actually warping anything, Gwen just casts a spell intended to generate water and all that happens is that she splash it on max & Ben.

On another notes I'm scrolling through the episode RN and I cannot for the life of me even find the scene the image for the added trivia thing would have been where Gwen would be poured water on Ben & max in the rust bucket via magic, it's looking like it wasn't even party of the released episode and more like a deleted scene

Without the luck Charm as part of the justification the first statement no longer qualifies for subjective reality at all and the second is all the charms so either way Subjective reality needs to get thrown out the gates


Aight, my fault G.
I checked this yeah this is coming from a deleted scene, the Mana page is outdated and whoever making a remake for this i will tell them to delete that part or replace it if there is another statement or feat for it
 
this is almost basic sorcerer skill, literally just manipulating your CE to focus it in one place, how does it not fit for everyone?

This is too, just sorcerers/curses focusing CE at their feet, someone not doing it like Hanami (because why would they need that, the water is at their feet level) does not mean all sorcerers cannot do that lol. Quite literally one of the scans you provide includes Gojo standing on water and allowing Yuji to stand on water too

It says in the scan yet again... both quantity and output can mitigate Kashimo's CE trait, therefore meaning everyone who scales to Hakari can resist the same. Base Hakari himself has shown to not be affected by Kashimo's ce trait in the fight. Again proving just output is enough and you dont need to have absurd quantity of CE, ie falls under advanced sorcerer which is grade 1 or above

And this can just be moved for everyone as you said and doesn't need to be removed
Todo's the only one to show it. So already not basic. Multiple people don't do it, its not something that's practiced either. It's very much not viable. Same with the feet stuff. No one scales to Hakari's quantity and output. Please read the rules.

Should these be included?
No there's no need to just keep adding examples. Unless you mean those have problems?

This too

Here's an examples on this page of extremely specific powers possessed by specific spells/items or people being treated as general abilities

Literally using an abilities unique to a specific objects (Charms of Bezel) worn by Gwen and coveted by Hex at the time and pretending it's some general power of mana manipulation
Make a crt.

Also, this should have at most been a hub for CRTs. Trying to smash several verses together, especially multiple large and controversial ones seems like a recipe for a long messy revision.
I suppose. I just wanted to avoid the numerous crts. Did not think some of these would be difficult to get ppl to agree on.
Yeah, this should be handled verse by verse in CRTs.
Yeah. Okay hopefully everyone sees this. This shouldn't be used for actually getting stuff changed. Can you move it to Wiki colab? This thread should be used for bringing up issues and then promoting the crts for the verse, not arguing here.
 
.I suppose. I just wanted to avoid the numerous crts. Did not think some of these would be difficult to get ppl to agree on.
I mean, how else was this gonna be handled? Even if it's 1 out of 20 abilities that might need changing, that's still several verses that need to be evaluated. A single thread would be too chaotic.

And that is assuming everyone just magically agrees that something counts or not.
Yeah. Okay hopefully everyone sees this. This shouldn't be used for actually getting stuff changed. Can you move it to Wiki colab? This thread should be used for bringing up issues and then promoting the crts for the verse, not arguing here.
I moved it.
 
Threads like this in general should never be used to lump in verses to see if they qualify for an ability or not.
 
Todo's the only one to show it
No he is not
So already not basic
Yes it is, its quite literally as simple as focusing CE in one place, how is that some special skill????
Multiple people don't do it, its not something that's practiced either. It's very much not viable. Same with the feet stuf
Everything you said is wrong. It does not need to be practiced as its something they just can do now whether or not they will in character or whatnot, is NOT the topic
No one scales to Hakari's quantity and output.
Literally all top tiers scale to his output, what are you talking about
Please read the rules.
If the rules forbid people from doing the most obvious stuff that is not specific learned skill by any means, then they are wrong and unreasonable, simple as that
 
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