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Vegeta VS Sigismund (0-5-0)
- Thread starter Sergeant_Hypocrite
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What is Sigismund scales from?!? I mean what is his AP in 4-B range?! I See three ends which was accepted?!
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Gotta save this for later. I feel like this is a better match than I expected, but I'll analyse this later.
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I'm not sure on how powerful Vegeta is, so my answer may very well change.
One big thing here is that, at least in the agility and mobility department, Vegeta has the advantage. He can fly, he is much more mobile, his ki-based powers allows him to move in ways that are really unexpected. His flight, with his muuuuch greater range due to ki blasts, could make this an easy way to him... If he wasn't Vegeta and a proud warrior.
He'll notice pretty quick that Sigismund can't do much in that scenario. Really, assuming even that Sigismund has average Space Marine loadout, even if some of exceptional quality and worthy of his rank, I really can't think of a ranged weapon for him to use other than a bolter, a bolt pistol, maybe a plasma pistol or something of the ilk. Even so, it shouldn't be enough to harm Vegeta. Upon realizing this, instead of just using the opportunity to blast him off, and seeing that Sigismund can just parry or tank his serious ki blasts, he'll see that he is both powerful and that he is only a challenge up close.
And that's when things go downhill for Vegeta.
Now, again, I'll never be one to say that it is a simple matter to quantify skill. It is very subjective, and there are millions of different skillsets involved in a fight. Vegeta is a beast at hand-to-hand and melee combat. In fact, he has comparable experience of people of thousands of years of experience in hand to hand, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not anyone who greatly understands Dragon Ball, far from it, but there is something about Hyperbolic Time Chambers greatly inflating time spent on training, and there was that bit of Goku fighting on hell for a time that was compared to ages... I don't know the details, but I do know that he got an unreasonable amount of time and experience, and it shows. He moves masterfully and in unpredictable ways, can integrate his powers fully within his moveset, can hit pressure points to perfection.
And there's Sigismund. A prodigy in swordsmanship that even at a very young age was far better than people with hundreds of years, someone who is recognized as the absolute best Marine in swordsmanship across the entire Horus Heresy, perhaps even in the whole franchise. He has experienced innumerable battlefields and situations, he has tested his blade for hundreds of years, all the while having the talent that every single one of those hundreds of years promoted growth far beyond normal.
I will say that, given what I know of Vegeta and what I know of Sigismund, Sigismund seems the more skilled one. Both in actual skill and in powers that compliment his combat skills. Not only that, but if their power level is similar, which it might not be, the fact that Sigismund uses a sword is a boon against someone unarmed, both due to range advantage and inherent lethality (even if Vegeta can focus ki to increase the range of his fists and reinforce them by focusing specific body parts, blades have a much smaller contact area delivering the same force).
So, I think it is very debatable and I'm open for a change of opinion, but I think Sigismund takes this with hard difficulties due to superior skill, using a weapon and having a power set that is more favourable to him than the contrary.
One big thing here is that, at least in the agility and mobility department, Vegeta has the advantage. He can fly, he is much more mobile, his ki-based powers allows him to move in ways that are really unexpected. His flight, with his muuuuch greater range due to ki blasts, could make this an easy way to him... If he wasn't Vegeta and a proud warrior.
He'll notice pretty quick that Sigismund can't do much in that scenario. Really, assuming even that Sigismund has average Space Marine loadout, even if some of exceptional quality and worthy of his rank, I really can't think of a ranged weapon for him to use other than a bolter, a bolt pistol, maybe a plasma pistol or something of the ilk. Even so, it shouldn't be enough to harm Vegeta. Upon realizing this, instead of just using the opportunity to blast him off, and seeing that Sigismund can just parry or tank his serious ki blasts, he'll see that he is both powerful and that he is only a challenge up close.
And that's when things go downhill for Vegeta.
Now, again, I'll never be one to say that it is a simple matter to quantify skill. It is very subjective, and there are millions of different skillsets involved in a fight. Vegeta is a beast at hand-to-hand and melee combat. In fact, he has comparable experience of people of thousands of years of experience in hand to hand, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not anyone who greatly understands Dragon Ball, far from it, but there is something about Hyperbolic Time Chambers greatly inflating time spent on training, and there was that bit of Goku fighting on hell for a time that was compared to ages... I don't know the details, but I do know that he got an unreasonable amount of time and experience, and it shows. He moves masterfully and in unpredictable ways, can integrate his powers fully within his moveset, can hit pressure points to perfection.
And there's Sigismund. A prodigy in swordsmanship that even at a very young age was far better than people with hundreds of years, someone who is recognized as the absolute best Marine in swordsmanship across the entire Horus Heresy, perhaps even in the whole franchise. He has experienced innumerable battlefields and situations, he has tested his blade for hundreds of years, all the while having the talent that every single one of those hundreds of years promoted growth far beyond normal.
I will say that, given what I know of Vegeta and what I know of Sigismund, Sigismund seems the more skilled one. Both in actual skill and in powers that compliment his combat skills. Not only that, but if their power level is similar, which it might not be, the fact that Sigismund uses a sword is a boon against someone unarmed, both due to range advantage and inherent lethality (even if Vegeta can focus ki to increase the range of his fists and reinforce them by focusing specific body parts, blades have a much smaller contact area delivering the same force).
So, I think it is very debatable and I'm open for a change of opinion, but I think Sigismund takes this with hard difficulties due to superior skill, using a weapon and having a power set that is more favourable to him than the contrary.
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Battle of Gods vegeta scales significantly above 1.2 kilofoe.
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Then it depends on the energy end we take. Sigismund is either several times more powerful than the 500 FoE range, since he is superior to people who are several times above to the Greater Daemon who did the feat... Or he somewhat inferior but still comparable to the 3 Gigafoe range, which would make this fight utterly unfair.
I'd like to consider them similar in power to make a more interesting fight, but really, Sigismund also would be stronger, it seems like.
I'd like to consider them similar in power to make a more interesting fight, but really, Sigismund also would be stronger, it seems like.
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Sigismund for the reasons listed by Venom
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If he scales to 500 FoE then vegeta has the AP advantage if 3 GigaFoE then its a stomp
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He doesn't simply scale to 500 FoE. He scales to people who are superior to people that are several times more powerful than a normal Greater Daemon that did the feat.
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Well same for vegeta
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As far as I know.... He's just considerably stronger than what he was in the Buu Saga, which isn't several times above.
Unless we are taking Vegeta empowered by rage, that went better against Beerus than SSJ3 Goku, I really do not think he'd be as superior to the power level shown here than Sigismund is to the lesser feat he scales to.
I mean, Khârn is utterly superior to a machine empowered by dozens of Bloodthirsters, and on the very least the average Bloodthirster ought to be comparable to the Keeper of Secrets that did the 500 FoE feat, if not stronger, since that Keeper of Secrets was mocked and treated as weak.
And Khârn was trounced by Sigismund. Not only that, but even the other three Champions of Chaos failed to beat Sigismund, when he faced all of them, one after the other, and while facing their armies, without rest. Even when old and weakened, he put up a better fight against Abaddon than most, and it was still stated that only the absolute strongest members of Chaos could ever hope to match him.
TL;DR: Sigismund >>> Khârn >>>>>>>> A machine empowered by dozens of Greater Daemons that scale to, if they aren't outright superior to, the one who did the 500 FoE feat.
I'll grant that I may be misremembering something, as it has been quite awhile since I last looked at the feat or the circumstances involved, but he certainly is way above the 500 FoE by a very big margin.
Unless we are taking Vegeta empowered by rage, that went better against Beerus than SSJ3 Goku, I really do not think he'd be as superior to the power level shown here than Sigismund is to the lesser feat he scales to.
I mean, Khârn is utterly superior to a machine empowered by dozens of Bloodthirsters, and on the very least the average Bloodthirster ought to be comparable to the Keeper of Secrets that did the 500 FoE feat, if not stronger, since that Keeper of Secrets was mocked and treated as weak.
And Khârn was trounced by Sigismund. Not only that, but even the other three Champions of Chaos failed to beat Sigismund, when he faced all of them, one after the other, and while facing their armies, without rest. Even when old and weakened, he put up a better fight against Abaddon than most, and it was still stated that only the absolute strongest members of Chaos could ever hope to match him.
TL;DR: Sigismund >>> Khârn >>>>>>>> A machine empowered by dozens of Greater Daemons that scale to, if they aren't outright superior to, the one who did the 500 FoE feat.
I'll grant that I may be misremembering something, as it has been quite awhile since I last looked at the feat or the circumstances involved, but he certainly is way above the 500 FoE by a very big margin.
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That's also if he even upscales from 500 and isn't just straight up 3 gigafoe which is just as likely
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Vegeta via superior skill
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