Vegeta Downgrade (Great Ape only)

[RadicalMrR]

Unless we say say higher power level < lower power level, we have the right rating.

This "its to big a gap" argument is ridiculous heres why

• Almost every multiplier in DB is non-linear so trying to apply the multiplier to stats doesnt work unless you want MFTL Buu Saga Goku and 4-A vegito.(So yeah i'm actually for using multipliers on stats but since he only use them for PLs we cant have that)

• Every single transformation has a giant jump in power, do I even need to explain the power difference between SSG and any transformation prior?

Also the "Vegeta was scared of Ginyu" argument is also flawed since at the time he could not transform, if he could and was still scared i'd be singing a different tune right now.

 

[FTW395]

@RadicalMrR fun thing is we might get a MFTL Buu Saga Goku due to a recent calc.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

• Almost every multiplier in DB is non-linear so trying to apply the multiplier to stats doesnt work unless you want MFTL Buu Saga Goku.

The irony of this statement seeing as we have a recent calc for this. XD

 

[Dark649]

Great Ape Vegeta was not Large Planet level when he overpowered Goku, but that was because he was vastly weakened from Goku hits and created the moon ball which dropped his power. A normal Vegeta is Large Planet level with the Great Ape.

 

[PaChi2]

Isnt vegeta's 18k power level ONLY when using galick gun? 180k should be then GAV's galick gun at best, not his base power.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Isnt vegeta's 18k power level ONLY when using galick gun? 180k should be then GAV's galick gun at best, not his base power.

False, the same ki they use to attack they use to protect themselves so that gives them same dura as AP. Next, they can damage each other with punches so that gives them the SS. In the end we have the same result.

 

[Antoniofer]

Pretty sure Vegeta has a power of 18k in base, even without that, he should be stronger than kk Goku, who is 16k.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with the downgrade. Power levels aren't useful for measuring power.

 

[PaChi2]

False, the same ki they use to attack they use to protect themselves so that gives them same dura as AP. Next, they can damage each other with punches so that gives them the SS. In the end we have the same result.

Dont understand what that has to be with what I said. I asked if the 18k rating was for powered up Galick gun vegeta or for normal vegeta, we all know that their powerlevels rise when using Ki attacks.

Antoniofer answered, anyway.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I think this ultimately comes down to whether or not it was specifically stated that great ape gives a 10x boost in power level or a 10x boost in power. A 10x boost in power level is not equal to a 10x boost in power, power levels don't scale linearly, freeza being the prime example, he has a power level of what 520k in first form which would only make him like 290x sayain saiyan vegeta who is planet level, but yet freeza is dwarf star level+ which would make him tens of thousands of times above vegeta.

 

[FTW395]

I agree with the downgrade. Power levels aren't useful for measuring power.

That's a really dumb statement seeing how Power Levels are pretty much used for measuring power. I mean the name is Power Levels.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Pegasus, all the multiplier has the same function, multiplie the PL, was said that the ape form has a boost of 10 times base power, so is refering to multiplied the Vegeta's base power per 10.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hmm, i still think using power levels is wonky unless great ape vegeta was specifically said to have a power level of 180k. Power levels aren't linear the difference between 18k and 520k isn't 290 but instead tens of thousands. I think we should only go by the feats the characters displayed or if a character is specifically said to have a power level above another character who scales to some feat.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I think you're missing the point here. With the logic being used here, Great Ape is only very, very, very slightly below Super Saiyan. At the minimum. Please, inform me on how much sense that makes? Because with our ratings, Great Ape is a >=47x boost while giving SS linearity (when in reality it's probably less), is a 50x boost.

 

[Sethisbest]

I agree with the downgrade. Power levels aren't useful for measuring power.

this doesn't make any sense

 

[RadicalMrR]

What? What else could possibly be multiplied by 10 other than stats or PL?

This is simple scaling, Higher Power level>Lower Power level, the only way he wouldnt be stronger than Ginyu is if we discard this simple line of logic.

 

[Antoniofer]

If we going with showed feat, his stats would be far below 5-B, also, I think that an official guide writte that GAV have a PL of 180k. If working as the same as SSJ and KK multiplier.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Radical Yes higher power level>lower power level but it doesn't mean that if i have a power level of 100 and another person has a power level of 1000 that the other person is 10x stronger than me is what i am saying.

@Antoniofer Vegeta has statements back by feats from a lower character piccolo which performed a small planet level feat so he is 5-B. If GAV was said in an official guide to have a PL of 180k i have no problem with it then.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Are we still ignoring the biggest reason why this was made? The natural function of Saiyans, I.e. Great Ape, is at the very least, a serious threat to the ancient alien prophecy known as Super Saiyan.

 

[FTW395]

@Cal you shouldn't use this wiki's ratings when it comes to in-universe scaling. We know that Great Ape gives a x10 increase and we also know that Base Vegeta is stronger than Kaio-Ken x2 Goku. Base Goku has a power level of 8000, so combined with Kaio-Ken x2 gives us a Power Level of 16k. Meaning that Vegeta would be <16k and meaning that Great Ape Vegeta would be <160k thus Vegeta being stronger than Ginyu, because Ginyu is 120k.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Basically, if Vegeta still had a tail in the Frieza Saga, he would've mopped the floor with Frieza after the final Zenkai

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Celestial I know but what we do know is Vegeta>Ginyu by an unknown amount so either way Vegeta would be stronger than Ginyu.

 

[Dark649]

Basically, if Vegeta still had a tail in the Frieza Saga, he would've mopped the floor with Frieza after the final Zenkai

No, even if Vegeta became a Super Saiyan he would have still lost to Frieza.

 

[FTW395]

By the way why is Ginyu rated 5-A?

 

[Antoniofer]

I was refering to GAV himself tho, but yeah, Vegeta base has his own feat. @Howard, I though that the reason was that GAV not killed Goku with one attack, however we already explained that he was weakened and toying, so no inconsistence nor PIS has happen.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Going by our rating, he would've. Because like I've been saying this entire time, the minimum boost that GAV gives is 47x, and the generous one for SS is 50x

 

[TheRustyOne]

Great Ape is a 10 times boost, it raises Vegeta's PL to 180,000 which is higher than Ginyu's.

A SSJ Vegeta PL would rise to 900000, I don't see how Great Ape is anywhere close to SSJ.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Basically, if Vegeta still had a tail in the Frieza Saga, he would've mopped the floor with Frieza after the final Zenkai

Final Zenkai Oozaru Vegeta would be (gonna high ball it since Frieza casually beat Vegeta with 1 of his power) 10% of Final Form Frieza so no Vegeta would not mop the floor with him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Look at our AP chart. Vegeta in base gives baseline planet level. 47 times that is Large Planet level. Ginyu is somewhere in that range, for some reason, and he's probably not baseline. So yea, according to us, it is, and it's flawed

 

[Antoniofer]

900k SSJ Vegeta is ridiculous, also, FTW, not sure, not remember any 5-A feat (actually yes, but was overthinked and converted to dwarf star)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Look at our AP chart. Vegeta in base gives baseline planet level. 47 times that is Large Planet level. Ginyu is somewhere in that range, for some reason, and he's probably not baseline. So yea, according to us, it is, and it's flawed

But according to official in verse sources GAV is stronger than Ginyu.

 

[FTW395]

Look at our AP chart. Vegeta in base gives baseline planet level. 47 times that is Large Planet level. Ginyu is somewhere in that range, for some reason, and he's probably not baseline. So yea, according to us, it is, and it's flawed

That's because 1. Ginyu is rated 5-A for no apparent reason and 2. in-universe scaling has priority over this wiki.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why is Ginyu Large Planet level? Great Ape Vegeta is stronger though.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Look at our AP chart. Vegeta in base gives baseline planet level. 47 times that is Large Planet level. Ginyu is somewhere in that range, for some reason, and he's probably not baseline. So yea, according to us, it is, and it's flawed

Power levels are non liner boosts. If it were 10X stats you'd be right but it multiplies PL not stats.

 

[PaChi2]

Powelevels seem more like exponential tbh (dont take this seriously, please).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why is Ginyu Large Planet level? Great Ape Vegeta is stronger though.

He is far superior to Base NS Vegeta and GF members

 

[TheRustyOne]

But that wouldn't be Large Planet level would it? Being stronger than someone would give them at most the + sign correct or am I just being stupid?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But that wouldn't be Large Planet level would it? Being stronger than someone would give them at most the + sign correct or am I just being stupid?

I dunno. I just read the justification XD. I think it depends.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Rad. See, I'd agree with you, but that proves my point even more, as SS hasn't demonstrated anything nearing a 50x boost, making it even stronger.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Isn't SS low 4-C?