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Vandalieu vs Han Jee-Han
- Thread starter DontTalkDT
- Start date
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- #3
Death-Bullet spam, I would say.
That and releasing those he has equipped.
That and releasing those he has equipped.
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I doubt Han has the AP to really hurt Van here...
So, how would he react to a hundred golems? And how good is the mind-hax resistance?
So, how would he react to a hundred golems? And how good is the mind-hax resistance?
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If it are Golems with a mind than he should passively mind control them the via Dark Demon Path Enticement, just like he does for his own Golems.Ricsi-viragosi said:
If it are Golems without a mind he either leaves them to Eisen, Kūhl, Pete and the Cemetry bees or/and creates a bunch of Golems on his own to match them.
In regards to how strong his mind resistance is:
For one he has maxed out the normal mind resistance skill. That skill at level 5 was enough the resist early levels of Death-Attribute Charm, which was already sufficient to instantly supress entire ghoul villages and control all spirits and undead over an area of.... 7 days of traveling apparently.
His Grotesque Mind skill furthers that resistance and additionally it becomes difficult to affect him with normal mind attacks. That is because a skill that is tailored for a normal mind would have trouble with the Grotesque mind, due to it having a fundamentally different structure. I think the metaphor was that the structure makes no sense, in the same way having a liver in the place a brain should be makes no sense.
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They resist mind manip
Plus, they can re-enter the pocket dimension Han creates on their own.
That doesn't sound like it would help against 500.000 worth of mindhax. It might help against the worse side-efects tough
Plus, they can re-enter the pocket dimension Han creates on their own.
That doesn't sound like it would help against 500.000 worth of mindhax. It might help against the worse side-efects tough
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I am gonna make a list on how Han would interact with his skills tough.
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Too bad this can't be added, it would have been intresting
So, about how some abilities would interact:
Gamer's body and vitality: At difference of Van, all of Han's body views damage done to it the same, meaning that hitting the pinkie might as well be hitting his heart and vice-versa, however, he cannot survive his head being destroyed.
Observe could give Han some insight, assuming Van woulédn't be viewed as 50 levels above him, and even if he was,Han would see his title, name, and would know the level difference is more than 50.
Ressurectio: Han would likely go for incap, so it wouldn't be very likely to help, but it's there.
Bloodwork and Potions: assuming blood is standard equipment, both of them can potion scum, with Van having the upperhand due to better Dura.
Transcend Limits: Han has he's own stat amps, but this sound much more impressive (whitout prep anyways)
Golem Creation: Han's golems have this, and he can create a dozen of top of the hundred if needed.
Telekinesis: Han has it too, plus I'm going to make a CRT/Blog that puts his lifting strenght at class K.
Flight: From the description, Han's is absolutly better and more spammable.
Appraisal: Observe tends to be better by a long-shot.
Mana Transfer: Han and his golems have it and its better.
Mana Bullet: Han has the homing, danmaku version of this.
Healing Power Enhancement: Han's active is better and more versatile, while his passive is comparable.
Physical Ability Enhancement: Han has this with sun-il's power and that other passive (giants strenght right?)
Mana Control: Both have it.
Spirit Form: Han had met enemies that are nearly completly immune to physical attacks so he just used magical telekinesis to be able to touch them,, but its still useful.
Alchemy: Han hasd something similiar.
Unarmed Fighting Technique: I would say Han has better marial arts
Multi-Cast: Han's infinite mana arrow is a "cast and forget" type of spell, while he can cast and combine six beyond that.
Long-distance Control: Pretty sure golems would just absorb fallen off parts.
Surgery: Healing's better.
Parallel Thought Processing: Han has a skill that increases his tought speed by 50, so I'll say his better. (plus he's brain is stated to be like a quantum computer, which is capable of "thinking" multiple things anyways)
Materialization: Usefull againts Han's elemental familiars
Coordination: Useless whitout summoning.
High-speed Thought Processing: Han's is better, and doesn't run out.
Commanding: No summoning
Thread-reeling: Mana shield for Han and Body Controll for golems makes it hard to use.
Throwing: Ok
Scream: Mental side-effects resisted, hearing is annoying but not deadly and Mana regens (especialy with potions and golems)
Dead Spirit Magic: Han has fire, water, earth and wind instead, plus they do their thing witoug Han telling them what to do.
Artillery Technique: I think Han had that, but he doesn't use it so its moot.
Telekinesis Canon: Now this is dangerous to Han, but he can use his own TK to stop them. More on Anti-magic later.
Shield Technique and Armor Technique: OK
Group Binding Technique: It seems to need prep from what I see.
Superhuman Strength: Both have it, but Han's seems better as is.
Rapid Regenerationn: Both have it, Han's is instantenious but not aplicable to the brain.
Dark King Magic: Pretty sure Han could learn it, especialy through skill theft.
Danger Sense: Death: Han has litiraly this
Death Delay: Doesn't sound self aplicable, but Han goes for knock-out anyways.
Undead Transformation: Possibly usable on the golems if killed due to them having souls, they would rebel against him due to gamers mind.
Golem Transformation: Han has this too, tough his makes them comparable to himf Exept shared senses.
Demon Fire: Not really useful
Heat Leech: See above.
Bloodshed Enhancement: Useful, but Han doesn't like to tank things.
Energy Absorption: This can be very useful, tough would it absorb all of Han's attacks?
Disinfect, Detoxification: Han does have poison equipment, but he never uses them so..
Detect Life: Han has this with ring of detection.
Decomposition, Fermentation: Golems don't decompose
Aging, Inanimate Aging: Mana shield and flight helps here, golems have longevity and can just digard and create substituations for of the aged part
Spirit Form Transformation: Han can harm it with magical TK and other stuff.
Multiplication: This is really useful, but mindhax and fool's act can ruin it, more on that later.
Poison, Deadly Poison, Industrial Poison: Golems are likely immune, Han wouldn't really come close, and if he did then he would be able to heal it.
Disease, Deadly Disease, Industrial Disease: Han can also likely heal it.
Lemure Creation: Other than bloodlust detection skill levelling up, they would get danmaku'd
Magic Absorption Barrier: Han etiher uses TK to fly away or simply has Sylph blow it away with wind.
Impact-Negating Barrier: Usefull against golems.
Withering: Now this is dangerous, assuming its long range. Han's healing is far from normal, so he can likely heal it.
Healing Negation: Han wouldn't go in close range, and he resist power null.
Erase Presence: This too is usefull, and would help against detection ring. Han also has an active skill that is pratically this.
Death-Bullet: Mana shield should stop it.
Blind Spot: Resisted through gamer's mind.
Death Cannon: Dodged or blocked.
Flame Prison Death: He needs to touch to use it
Status Effect Resistance: Not really useful due to Han not using status effects (exept agains fodders) until he defeats the enemy for good.
Magic Resistance: Nearly everyone has it in The Gamer, but it can be usefull against sleep, not that Han would use it.
Dark Demon Path Enticement: Resists.
Automatic Mana Recovery: Han has it too.
Grotesque Mind: NLF, much like Gamer's mind. Pretty sure the lack of normal brain doesn't matter.
Mental Encroachment: Resisted.
Labyrinth Construction: Han has it, tough his own can create monsters on his own level and they do have souls. Plus he can escape them, destroy them and create new ones.
Abyss: Han can resist most of his own Hax, an could overcome other people's resistance.
Soul Devour: Mana shield should be able to block it, or dodge it. Tough it is a dangerous ability.
I'll just say Han because of speed amps via sorcerers realm and mindhax
So, about how some abilities would interact:
Gamer's body and vitality: At difference of Van, all of Han's body views damage done to it the same, meaning that hitting the pinkie might as well be hitting his heart and vice-versa, however, he cannot survive his head being destroyed.
Observe could give Han some insight, assuming Van woulédn't be viewed as 50 levels above him, and even if he was,Han would see his title, name, and would know the level difference is more than 50.
Ressurectio: Han would likely go for incap, so it wouldn't be very likely to help, but it's there.
Bloodwork and Potions: assuming blood is standard equipment, both of them can potion scum, with Van having the upperhand due to better Dura.
Transcend Limits: Han has he's own stat amps, but this sound much more impressive (whitout prep anyways)
Golem Creation: Han's golems have this, and he can create a dozen of top of the hundred if needed.
Telekinesis: Han has it too, plus I'm going to make a CRT/Blog that puts his lifting strenght at class K.
Flight: From the description, Han's is absolutly better and more spammable.
Appraisal: Observe tends to be better by a long-shot.
Mana Transfer: Han and his golems have it and its better.
Mana Bullet: Han has the homing, danmaku version of this.
Healing Power Enhancement: Han's active is better and more versatile, while his passive is comparable.
Physical Ability Enhancement: Han has this with sun-il's power and that other passive (giants strenght right?)
Mana Control: Both have it.
Spirit Form: Han had met enemies that are nearly completly immune to physical attacks so he just used magical telekinesis to be able to touch them,, but its still useful.
Alchemy: Han hasd something similiar.
Unarmed Fighting Technique: I would say Han has better marial arts
Multi-Cast: Han's infinite mana arrow is a "cast and forget" type of spell, while he can cast and combine six beyond that.
Long-distance Control: Pretty sure golems would just absorb fallen off parts.
Surgery: Healing's better.
Parallel Thought Processing: Han has a skill that increases his tought speed by 50, so I'll say his better. (plus he's brain is stated to be like a quantum computer, which is capable of "thinking" multiple things anyways)
Materialization: Usefull againts Han's elemental familiars
Coordination: Useless whitout summoning.
High-speed Thought Processing: Han's is better, and doesn't run out.
Commanding: No summoning
Thread-reeling: Mana shield for Han and Body Controll for golems makes it hard to use.
Throwing: Ok
Scream: Mental side-effects resisted, hearing is annoying but not deadly and Mana regens (especialy with potions and golems)
Dead Spirit Magic: Han has fire, water, earth and wind instead, plus they do their thing witoug Han telling them what to do.
Artillery Technique: I think Han had that, but he doesn't use it so its moot.
Telekinesis Canon: Now this is dangerous to Han, but he can use his own TK to stop them. More on Anti-magic later.
Shield Technique and Armor Technique: OK
Group Binding Technique: It seems to need prep from what I see.
Superhuman Strength: Both have it, but Han's seems better as is.
Rapid Regenerationn: Both have it, Han's is instantenious but not aplicable to the brain.
Dark King Magic: Pretty sure Han could learn it, especialy through skill theft.
Danger Sense: Death: Han has litiraly this
Death Delay: Doesn't sound self aplicable, but Han goes for knock-out anyways.
Undead Transformation: Possibly usable on the golems if killed due to them having souls, they would rebel against him due to gamers mind.
Golem Transformation: Han has this too, tough his makes them comparable to himf Exept shared senses.
Demon Fire: Not really useful
Heat Leech: See above.
Bloodshed Enhancement: Useful, but Han doesn't like to tank things.
Energy Absorption: This can be very useful, tough would it absorb all of Han's attacks?
Disinfect, Detoxification: Han does have poison equipment, but he never uses them so..
Detect Life: Han has this with ring of detection.
Decomposition, Fermentation: Golems don't decompose
Aging, Inanimate Aging: Mana shield and flight helps here, golems have longevity and can just digard and create substituations for of the aged part
Spirit Form Transformation: Han can harm it with magical TK and other stuff.
Multiplication: This is really useful, but mindhax and fool's act can ruin it, more on that later.
Poison, Deadly Poison, Industrial Poison: Golems are likely immune, Han wouldn't really come close, and if he did then he would be able to heal it.
Disease, Deadly Disease, Industrial Disease: Han can also likely heal it.
Lemure Creation: Other than bloodlust detection skill levelling up, they would get danmaku'd
Magic Absorption Barrier: Han etiher uses TK to fly away or simply has Sylph blow it away with wind.
Impact-Negating Barrier: Usefull against golems.
Withering: Now this is dangerous, assuming its long range. Han's healing is far from normal, so he can likely heal it.
Healing Negation: Han wouldn't go in close range, and he resist power null.
Erase Presence: This too is usefull, and would help against detection ring. Han also has an active skill that is pratically this.
Death-Bullet: Mana shield should stop it.
Blind Spot: Resisted through gamer's mind.
Death Cannon: Dodged or blocked.
Flame Prison Death: He needs to touch to use it
Status Effect Resistance: Not really useful due to Han not using status effects (exept agains fodders) until he defeats the enemy for good.
Magic Resistance: Nearly everyone has it in The Gamer, but it can be usefull against sleep, not that Han would use it.
Dark Demon Path Enticement: Resists.
Automatic Mana Recovery: Han has it too.
Grotesque Mind: NLF, much like Gamer's mind. Pretty sure the lack of normal brain doesn't matter.
Mental Encroachment: Resisted.
Labyrinth Construction: Han has it, tough his own can create monsters on his own level and they do have souls. Plus he can escape them, destroy them and create new ones.
Abyss: Han can resist most of his own Hax, an could overcome other people's resistance.
Soul Devour: Mana shield should be able to block it, or dodge it. Tough it is a dangerous ability.
I'll just say Han because of speed amps via sorcerers realm and mindhax
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How much do they resist? 'cause Van's passive mind control has broken through resistance before and, while I would have to look up the best estimation, it should be able to put something in the realm of thousands at once under mind control currently.Ricsi-viragosi said:
That is an overestimation. Yes, Shin has 500k under her mind control at once, but it isn't like she put 500k people under it at the same time and forcefully. Neither has Han mind attacked all 500k people.Ricsi-viragosi said:
If we are counting like that Vandalieu would have no less than 9 entire nations under his mind control currently.
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500.000 at minimum to planetary.
Shin is connecting each mind 24/7, so it does scale.
Shin is connecting each mind 24/7, so it does scale.
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Or, if you wish to ingore shin, it scales to gaia, who can affect entire species and create bodies from each and every single ID made by non-gods.
Or being comparable to arc company, who is capable of taking in millions of people's willpower and wishes
Or being comparable to arc company, who is capable of taking in millions of people's willpower and wishes
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>scales to Gaia
Nothing in the verse scales to Gaia currently. Where do you get that idea from?
And connecting minds of already mind controlled individuals doesn't imply you can mind control them all at the same time. That is just impressive telepathy.
Also no idea where you get planetary from.
Nothing in the verse scales to Gaia currently. Where do you get that idea from?
And connecting minds of already mind controlled individuals doesn't imply you can mind control them all at the same time. That is just impressive telepathy.
Also no idea where you get planetary from.
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Exept... Its gaia who gives the resistance and it was stated that she was the one to remove it.
When you use the same telepathy to erode people's mind, it does scale.
Litiraly was gonna connect every humanoid on the planet
When you use the same telepathy to erode people's mind, it does scale.
Litiraly was gonna connect every humanoid on the planet
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I thought speed amp still is restricted if speed equal? If not then I restrict it. The point of this thread wasn't to win by speed amping.Ricsi-viragosi said:
"Han would likely go for incap"
Interesting. How would he manage to incap Van? Van can think with his soul, it's pretty much impossible to K.O. him. He can also fight even if his physical body is completly restrained...
"Han's golems have this, and he can create a dozen of top of the hundred if needed. "
Van can respond in kind.
"From the description, Han's is absolutly better and more spammable. "
Van can not just fly through flight, but also by growing wings. So the spells downsides don't really apply to the end result.
"Dead Spirit Magic: Han has fire, water, earth and wind instead, plus they do their thing witoug Han telling them what to do. "
Van's spirits also act without command. Dead Spirit magic is basically just channeling mana through them to make use of their elements.
"Group Binding Technique: It seems to need prep from what I see. "
Not really. He has several people equiped per default (see equipement) and something like spreading blood can be done instantly.
"Dark King Magic: Pretty sure Han could learn it, especialy through skill theft. "
Han's skill theft takes to long for battle. It is also better for him not to learn it, as death attribute mana erases all other attribute affinities from your soul.
"Death Delay: Doesn't sound self aplicable, but Han goes for knock-out anyways. "
Actually, I am pretty sure he can use it on himself.
"Possibly usable on the golems if killed due to them having souls, they would rebel against him due to gamers mind. "
I don't think gamers mind includes Han's Golems?
"Energy Absorption: This can be very useful, tough would it absorb all of Han's attacks? "
Not quite sure what you mean with all, but it should absorb stuff involving energy.
"Disease, Deadly Disease, Industrial Disease: Han can also likely heal it. "
And instantly be infected again, because Van's illnessess are a bitch.
"Healing Negation: Han wouldn't go in close range, and he resist power null. "
However, if he gets trapped in the impact negating and mana negating barrier he probably doesn't have much of a choice.
"Flame Prison Death: He needs to touch to use it "
Not really. He can also throw some blubber at him and explode that. And not being touched at all isn't easy. Especially if there are sticky barriers around.
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Yeah, gaia grants abilities. Doesn't mean the abilities are as powerful as gaia. Seriously, Gaia is God-Tier of the verse. Han isn't even close to that, yet.Ricsi-viragosi said:
And it doesn't corrode their minds like that. It was even a point made that they are willingly in all of that, because the connection just gives them a sense of unity and helps against their loneliness. She definitely isn't constantly mind attacking her followers.
I don't remember her attempting to do that. Unless you maybe mean slowly incorporating them in her network, in which case this still isn't a feat of being able to instantly brainwash all of them.
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I thought speed amp still is restricted if speed equal? If not then I restrict it. The point of this thread wasn't to win by speed amping.
It is not, but I find that logic annoying at best. If a skill gives someone more of an advantage then you like restricting it seems just bad.
Interesting. How would he manage to incap Van? Van can think with his soul, it's pretty much impossible to K.O. him. He can also fight even if his physical body is completly restrained..
I imagine he would do so by forcing anti-magic on him and just restraining him with magic until he performs skill theft.
Van can respond in kind
Han's seem much more versatile, are always immune to physical attacks and can null magic through multiple hits.
Van can not just fly through flight, but also by growing wings. So the spells downsides don't really apply to the end result
Flight with wings is lesser to the kind Han uses anyways.
Van's spirits also act without command. Dead Spirit magic is basically just channeling mana through them to make use of their elements
Then it is mostly the same
Not really. He has several people equiped per default (see equipement) and something like spreading blood can be done instantly
I meant the best warriors in his world an all that. Couldn't han just enter or send his golems into the pocket dimension?
Han's skill theft takes to long for battle. It is also better for him not to learn it, as death attribute mana erases all other attribute affinities from your soul.
Eh, I guess. He can still remove it as long as he restrains, maybe teach it to prez.
Actually, I am pretty sure he can use it on himself
The wording seems to imply otherwise, but if so then Han will simply permit himself to be rougher,
I don't think gamers mind includes Han's Golems?
It does actualy. It's been clarified that all hi s servants have it (as shown with yoohwa). And they have acces to every other of his gamer's ability, so it seems unlikely that they don't have that.
Not quite sure what you mean with all, but it should absorb stuff involving energy
I mean Han's attacks, specificly the anti-magic one's.
And instantly be infected again, because Van's illnessess are a bitch.
With how much he ranges, being infected at all is unlikely. And pretty sure he would simply get a skill out of it like he did with endurance and such.
However, if he gets trapped in the impact negating and mana negating barrier he probably doesn't have much of a choice
Neither of those stop him leaving his own ID (a tactic he himself describes as basic) or using teleportation, as neither releases mana from the body.
Not really. He can also throw some blubber at him and explode that. And not being touched at all isn't easy. Especially if there are sticky barriers around.
Forcefields, teleportation and invisibility make it easier
Yeah, gaia grants abilities. Doesn't mean the abilities are as powerful as gaia. Seriously, Gaia is God-Tier of the verse. Han isn't even close to that, yet.
Despity being the god-tier even arc can supress her influence, and items that supress her effects are basic world tier objects. beyond that, he has absolute immunity, wich means he resists the best showings in verse.
And it doesn't corrode their minds like that. It was even a point made that they are willingly in all of that, because the connection just gives them a sense of unity and helps against their loneliness. She definitely isn't constantly mind attacking her followers
I suppose you didn't see the mental corrosion notifications... It forces people to see others emotions until they brek and become willing members.
I don't remember her attempting to do that. Unless you maybe mean slowly incorporating them in her network, in which case this still isn't a feat of being able to instantly brainwash all of them.
Mentaly connecting all of humanity is a mind-hax feat, especialy when your brainwashing works by forcing someone to connect to others until they break under the pressure. Plus Han has the ability to null others mindhax and make his own stronger.
Also, anti-magic field can be really problematic to Van
It is not, but I find that logic annoying at best. If a skill gives someone more of an advantage then you like restricting it seems just bad.
Interesting. How would he manage to incap Van? Van can think with his soul, it's pretty much impossible to K.O. him. He can also fight even if his physical body is completly restrained..
I imagine he would do so by forcing anti-magic on him and just restraining him with magic until he performs skill theft.
Van can respond in kind
Han's seem much more versatile, are always immune to physical attacks and can null magic through multiple hits.
Van can not just fly through flight, but also by growing wings. So the spells downsides don't really apply to the end result
Flight with wings is lesser to the kind Han uses anyways.
Van's spirits also act without command. Dead Spirit magic is basically just channeling mana through them to make use of their elements
Then it is mostly the same
Not really. He has several people equiped per default (see equipement) and something like spreading blood can be done instantly
I meant the best warriors in his world an all that. Couldn't han just enter or send his golems into the pocket dimension?
Han's skill theft takes to long for battle. It is also better for him not to learn it, as death attribute mana erases all other attribute affinities from your soul.
Eh, I guess. He can still remove it as long as he restrains, maybe teach it to prez.
Actually, I am pretty sure he can use it on himself
The wording seems to imply otherwise, but if so then Han will simply permit himself to be rougher,
I don't think gamers mind includes Han's Golems?
It does actualy. It's been clarified that all hi s servants have it (as shown with yoohwa). And they have acces to every other of his gamer's ability, so it seems unlikely that they don't have that.
Not quite sure what you mean with all, but it should absorb stuff involving energy
I mean Han's attacks, specificly the anti-magic one's.
And instantly be infected again, because Van's illnessess are a bitch.
With how much he ranges, being infected at all is unlikely. And pretty sure he would simply get a skill out of it like he did with endurance and such.
However, if he gets trapped in the impact negating and mana negating barrier he probably doesn't have much of a choice
Neither of those stop him leaving his own ID (a tactic he himself describes as basic) or using teleportation, as neither releases mana from the body.
Not really. He can also throw some blubber at him and explode that. And not being touched at all isn't easy. Especially if there are sticky barriers around.
Forcefields, teleportation and invisibility make it easier
Yeah, gaia grants abilities. Doesn't mean the abilities are as powerful as gaia. Seriously, Gaia is God-Tier of the verse. Han isn't even close to that, yet.
Despity being the god-tier even arc can supress her influence, and items that supress her effects are basic world tier objects. beyond that, he has absolute immunity, wich means he resists the best showings in verse.
And it doesn't corrode their minds like that. It was even a point made that they are willingly in all of that, because the connection just gives them a sense of unity and helps against their loneliness. She definitely isn't constantly mind attacking her followers
I suppose you didn't see the mental corrosion notifications... It forces people to see others emotions until they brek and become willing members.
I don't remember her attempting to do that. Unless you maybe mean slowly incorporating them in her network, in which case this still isn't a feat of being able to instantly brainwash all of them.
Mentaly connecting all of humanity is a mind-hax feat, especialy when your brainwashing works by forcing someone to connect to others until they break under the pressure. Plus Han has the ability to null others mindhax and make his own stronger.
Also, anti-magic field can be really problematic to Van
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God tier or not, when an absolute statement comes around (NLF stuff like immunity) we scale it to god-tiers anyways.
If Ainz gets a planetary mind-hax (world tier eqipment aside) then even fodde undead scale to it.
If Ainz gets a planetary mind-hax (world tier eqipment aside) then even fodde undead scale to it.
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Just being blunt here, as I haven't looked into this fight that in depth, I don't see how he gets around the mindhax enslavement combo. Yoohwa's resistance to mindhax should be a direct correlation to Han's as they are both innate fighters, and Han was able to grant himself immunity to her mindhax even when she was using the power of Gaia, and stop her thinking. Her resistance only allowed her to not go insane.
That's not going to be the case here. If Han can't damage him he's too intelligent to not go for the incap. He'd go for it immediately, and there's not much of a better combo than the aforementioned one, aside from the magical shackles of binding/douchery into sleep inducement.
Now, once again, I haven't really gone through this fight anywhere near as in depth as I normally would, so if there's a solid reason as to why this would be ineffective, my ears are open.
That's not going to be the case here. If Han can't damage him he's too intelligent to not go for the incap. He'd go for it immediately, and there's not much of a better combo than the aforementioned one, aside from the magical shackles of binding/douchery into sleep inducement.
Now, once again, I haven't really gone through this fight anywhere near as in depth as I normally would, so if there's a solid reason as to why this would be ineffective, my ears are open.
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