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Upper Moon 5-4 upgrade

Nehz_XZX said:
It's interesting. The result surpassing Doma's feat could be considered problematic but we do know that Doma was severely weakened at the time of performing it and we do have several characters either at 8-A or likely 8-A.
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Zenitsu's 8-B+ feat was less than 1 ton away from Doma's feat iirc, the difference being (as you're saying now) the fact that Doma was severely weakened. An 8-A character doing an 8-B+ feat when severely weakened is, quite frankly, amazingly consistent.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Zenitsu's 8-B+ feat was less than 1 ton away from Doma's feat iirc, the difference being (as you're saying now) the fact that Doma was severely weakened. An 8-A character doing an 8-B+ feat when severely weakened is, quite frankly, amazingly consistent.
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O since you from calc team can You please check the 8A recalc?
 
so basically UM4 and 5 will scale above kaigaku (8-B)

and people comparable to or above zenitsu in sunrise countdown arc will be 8-A?
 
There is no correlation between Gyutaro, Tengen, and especially Daki with Kaigaku. They'd stay as is

And well, Rengoku is already 8-B, likely 8-A. He'd just become fully 8-A
 
XVII said:
so we would have 8-A tengen, gyutaro and daki?

i mean, daki would probably be 8-B or smthing but wow
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Gyutaro scales to a hundred times above Daki, so she would be a lot weaker unless that is changed.
 
XVII said:
and people comparable to or above zenitsu in sunrise countdown arc will be 8-A?
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I'll list the chars that are relative and chars that are above eos zenitsu from weakest (top) to strongest (bottom)

Comparable:
Nezuko (>= Daki and UM4's clones who should be comparable to her)
Genya (Iffy on this one, scaling mainly because they were comparable-ish while training)
Kaigaku (Relativity to Zenitsu in the IF fight)
Tengen (High end relative to Gyutaro who should be >= Kaigaku)
Gyutaro + Daki (Should be superior or at least comparable to Kaigaku)
Inosuke (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)
Kanao (Relativity to Zenitsu in the Muzan fight)

Above:
Gyokko (>UM6)
Shinobu (Relative to a casual Doma which narratively should be above UM6)
Mui (>UM5 > UM6 < Zenitsu)
Hantengu (>> UM6)
Rengoku (~ UM3 >>> UM6 < Zenitsu)
Mitsuri (~ UM4 >> UM6 < Zenitsu, dodged attacks from Muzan)
Giyu (~ UM3 >> UM6 < Zenitsu)
Akaza (>>> UM6)
Sanemi (~ UM1 >>>> UM6 < Zenitsu)
Obanai (Did better than marked Sanemi in Muzan fight)
Gyomei (~ UM1 >>>> UM6 < Zenitsu)
Doma (>>> UM6)
Koku (>>>> UM6)
Tanjiro (Relative to Muzan who blitzed marked Gyomei, Sanemi, Giyu, Obanai and base + invisible Kanao, Inosuke and Zenitsu)
Muzan (> Tanjiro)
Yoriichi (>>>> Muzan)
 
Peter1129 said:
Hantengu’s Emotion Clones shouldn’t scale. Kaigaku was keeping up with and hurting Post-Pillar Training Zenitsu. Post-Pillar Training Zenitsu is even stronger than Post-Zeroshiki Training Tanjirou since he was shown to be able to clear the first three pillar training that this Tanjirou couldn’t complete until after he trained a bit more. And Post-Zeroshiki Training Tanjirou is comparable to Adult Form Nezuko who is in turn comparable to Hantengu’s Emotion Clones. Hantengu’s Emotion Clones are only in between Daki and Gyutaro’s lvl. They shouldn’t scale to True UM6s like Kaigaku.
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Elixirr said:
Agree with everything, on the fence about scaling the 4 first emotional clones to kaigaku since they may be weaker but agree with zohakuten and hantengu scaling above him. My reasoning for that is a marked tanji managed to blitz 3 of them and we know that he's relative to unmarked zenitsu based on their performance nearing the end of the muzan fight, albeit tanji fought for a significantly longer time and would be more fatigued than zenitsu
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CloverDragon03 said:
Does that make characters like Daki and Evolved Demon Form Nezuko 21 tons?
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chosen said:
If we decide to scale Gyutaro ap to Kaigaku 21 tons sounds about right
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Wouldn't Gyutaro scaling to Kaigaku in terms of Attack Potency not cause scaling issues since the emotion clones scale to his Attack Potency through having fought a Tanjiro who surpassed his level of power against Gyutaro that was enough to cut through his neck? I don't see an issue with Gyutaro being faster than Kaigaku and being superior to him in a fight but if I understand the current scaling right, then Zohakuten is scaling four times higher than Gyutaro due to being the combined form of the emotion clones which can individually match Tanjiro.
 
Hmmm that is true
Albeit elixir reason causes scaling issues itself now that i think About it(unless we make changes) since we scale marked tanjiro to Akaza and Zantegnu
 
chosen said:
Hmmm that is true
Albeit elixir reason causes scaling issues itself now that i think About it(unless we make changes) since we scale marked tanjiro to Akaza and Zantegnu
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Tanjiro has separate keys for the Post-Type Zero Training and the Post-Hashira Training and we don't assume that his level of strength stagnated, so that shouldn't be an issue unless we want to apply that sort of assumption to his marked state for some reason. Tanjiro did surpass his marked state from the Entertainment District arc in his base form and the Demon Slayer Mark was still a boost for him, so the marked state is presumably getting stronger as well.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Tanjiro has separate keys for the Post-Type Zero Training and the Post-Hashira Training and we don't assume that his level of strength stagnated, so that shouldn't be an issue unless we want to apply that sort of assumption to his marked state for some reason. Tanjiro did surpass his marked state from the Entertainment District arc in his base form and the Demon Slayer Mark was still a boost for him, so the marked state is presumably getting stronger as well.
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Elixir reason implies infinity castle arc Tanjiro not Hantegnu fight "zenitsu based on their performance nearing the end of the muzan fight, albeit tanji fought for a significantly longer time and would be more fatigued than zenitsu" tho he did mention tanjiro would have been more fatigued
 
chosen said:
Elixir reason implies infinity castle arc Tanjiro not Hantegnu fight "zenitsu based on their performance nearing the end of the muzan fight, albeit tanji fought for a significantly longer time and would be more fatigued than zenitsu" tho he did mention tanjiro would have been more fatigued
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Okay, but there are still the reasons that Peter 1129 and I gave for the emotion clones not scaling, so that should be valid.
 
So yeah there's also a Low 7-C calc that needs to be evaluated.


I'd suggest holding off on any edits to the profiles unless you guys want to do a minor edit only to edit them again in a few days. I'd also suggest coming up with an anti outlier argument since this is the best feat in the verse by far.
 
Well I can’t comment on the blog right now, as I’m on my phone, so I’ll say my thoughts here:

I don’t think this calc works. The feat happened via a bunch of giant blood whips as a self-destruction mechanism and it wasn’t even an explosion to begin with.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Wouldn't Gyutaro scaling to Kaigaku in terms of Attack Potency not cause scaling issues since the emotion clones scale to his Attack Potency through having fought a Tanjiro who surpassed his level of power against Gyutaro that was enough to cut through his neck? I don't see an issue with Gyutaro being faster than Kaigaku and being superior to him in a fight but if I understand the current scaling right, then Zohakuten is scaling four times higher than Gyutaro due to being the combined form of the emotion clones which can individually match Tanjiro.
Click to expand...
Alright after some thinking, here's what I think:
Each one of Hantengu's clones is > Daki and ~ Gyutaro. It doesn't make sense narratively for an antagonist in a later arc (especially after intensive training and unlocking new abilities) would be weaker than an antagonist in an earlier arc. Base SSV arc Tanji is massively above RLD arc Tanji due to training + precog (that was stated to give him pillar-level movement speed) and RLD arc Tanji was already shown to be low end relative to Gyutaro and even blitzed him while he was off-guard and blitzed awakened Daki and is relative-ish to Gyutaro's eye Daki through scaling from Inosuke and Zenitsu.
chosen said:
Albeit elixir reason causes scaling issues itself now that i think About it(unless we make changes) since we scale marked tanjiro to Akaza and Zantegnu
Click to expand...
Yeah the scaling is absolutely ****** if we used my one, even though I think its consistent and logical. I just realised my reasoning above means that SSV arc Tanji would be able to beat Gyutaro on his own 🗿
chosen said:
Elixir reason implies infinity castle arc Tanjiro not Hantegnu fight "zenitsu based on their performance nearing the end of the muzan fight, albeit tanji fought for a significantly longer time and would be more fatigued than zenitsu" tho he did mention tanjiro would have been more fatigued
Click to expand...
My stand is that tumor eye Tanji is massively above Zenitsu due to scaling from the Muzan blitz, and nearing the end of the fight they were shown to be relative albeit Tanji was more fatigued as he fought for around 40+ mins longer

Do yall think Kaigaku is faster than Gyutaro? Narrative may lean towards Kaigaku being faster
LordGinSama said:
I'd suggest holding off on any edits to the profiles unless you guys want to do a minor edit only to edit them again in a few days. I'd also suggest coming up with an anti outlier argument since this is the best feat in the verse by far.
Click to expand...
The 8-B+ feat was performed by Doma who was extremely severely seriously critically weakened when he performed that feat, he was using the majority of his power to try to disintegrate the poison while the rest was being used to create the statue to give him the 8-B+ rating.

The 8-A calc was based on Zenitsu's speed when blizting Kaigaku's lightning. There two times where Zenitsu moved faster than that, namely when he used seventh form and when he out-sped a severely weakened Muzan several times.

When Zenitsu used seventh form, not only did he travel a further distance, but he must have moved significantly faster than he did in order to completely out-speed Kaigaku's perception. Zenitsu was weakened by Kaigaku's BDA while using seventh form too.

Regarding the out-speeding Muzan feat, I would say that he was faster during that period of time than when he was in the fortress. Firstly, when he fought Muzan, he wasn't weakened by Kaigaku's BDA. Secondly, he verbatim stated that his seventh form would be his last technique "at full strength" AFTER he used god speed. Thirdly, Zenitsu was physically struggling (which you could tell from his expression and inner monolgue) to produce enough speed to cut Muzan while he was relatively calm while performing the 2 earlier feats, suggesting that he was expending much more effort and was thus moving at a much greater speed.

Therefore, I think the AP produced from these 2 feats would theoretically be higher than 7-C calc FRA. What do yall think
 
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Elixirr said:
Do yall think Kaigaku is faster than Gyutaro? Narrative may lean towards Kaigaku being faster
Click to expand...
Gyutaro scales to Tengen who scales to his fellow Pillars when it comes to speed, so I don't think that Kaigaku is outright faster than Gyutaro but I can imagine them being relative to each other.
 
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Nehz_XZX said:
Gyutaro scales to Tengen who scales to his fellow pillars when it comes to speed, so I don't think that Kaigaku is outright faster than Gyutaro but I can imagine them being relative to each other.
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This is only running speed right? On the fence about using that method since I think overall speed is more important, but yeah Kaigaku should be ~ Gyutaro at minimum
 
Elixirr said:
This is only running speed right? On the fence about using that method since I think overall speed is more important, but yeah Kaigaku should be ~ Gyutaro at minimum
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"The list is purely about running speed with no specified length or description of the running course. Mitsuri, Muichiro and Obanai are suggested to have been impeded in some way" (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tengen_Uzui)

Yeah, it is about running speed and I do agree that overall speed is more important but it's still an indicator that Tengen isn't supposed to be incomparably slower like his previous speed rating suggested which together with the comparison to Mitsuri that the manga made, though it explicitly said that he was slower than her, was enough to upgrade him to his current Massively Hypersonic+ rating, so I view him personally as around the same level of speed as the other Pillars.
 
Yeah imma definitely revise the verse.


As for the Douma feat, do we have an exact temperature? That could increase the yield.
 
Elixirr said:
My stand is that tumor eye Tanji is massively above Zenitsu due to scaling from the Muzan blitz, and nearing the end of the fight they were shown to be relative albeit Tanji was more fatigued as he fought for around 40+ mins longer
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Ooo i see
 
Nehz_XZX said:
"The list is purely about running speed with no specified length or description of the running course. Mitsuri, Muichiro and Obanai are suggested to have been impeded in some way" (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tengen_Uzui)

Yeah, it is about running speed and I do agree that overall speed is more important but it's still an indicator that Tengen isn't supposed to be incomparably slower like his previous speed rating suggested which together with the comparison to Mitsuri that the manga made, though it explicitly said that he was slower than her, was enough to upgrade him to his current Massively Hypersonic+ rating, so I view him personally as around the same level of speed as the other Pillars.
Click to expand...
Alright then
LordGinSama said:
As for the Douma feat, do we have an exact temperature?
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None. Though, the freezing air is cold enough to cause cells to undergo necrosis, instantly freeze water and wooden bridges, as well as completely prevent Kanao's arm from moving despite not being in direct contact with the icy air. No idea if those values would increase the yield, but let us know if it does
 
Did Douma freeze air itself ever? We can get a temperature very easily from all of those feats you just listed but the air freezing is probably the only relevant end tbh.


Freezing air requires some low ass temperatures.
 
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