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^So they're solid 1-A's i take it from the looks of this....and Irrelevant Speed, aye?
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Upgrade/New Key for the Chaos Gods
- Thread starter Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
Dunno. Need more opinions.
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I will wait in the shadows of observation for that then. *Nods*
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- #45
I cannot really see how transcending time as a concept would only be tier 2, unless you mean for verses which have only demonstrated being 4 to 5-D structures as a whole, such as Pokemon currently is.
Regardless, these are more supplementary quoutes, as I am currently trying to look through more recent books I have access to, since GW likes to scatter their info all over the damn place.
Regardless, these are more supplementary quoutes, as I am currently trying to look through more recent books I have access to, since GW likes to scatter their info all over the damn place.
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I just wheezed at this joke. Props, Dark.DarkLK said:
On a serious note though, I do appreciate you being skeptical, as I never want to upgrade something that doesn't deserve it. Statements have led me to believe the Chaos Gods have the possibility of being significantly above what we currently rate them, but GW does not like compiling info about pretty much anything in a single place. Obviously why I'm looking for something that's a very straightforward statement (not easy with Chaos).
And of course, most Chaos stuff that's about any of the gods who aren't Tzeentch mostly just mentions how crazy shit is as opposed to giving any real idea of scale.
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Yes, that is why I am still searching for proper quotes, as I've said. Much of what is said about Chaos is exceedingly vague or from second-hand sources, so I'm trying to find things that are more solid, and possibly help give them a more well defined rating, if anything.Antvasima said:
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Almost every conception of the outer chaos/void in fiction is described as something beyond time/space/physics/logic/description.
Very often, such a concepts are transcendental to something more complex than the regular three-dimensional universe + linear time.
And every time, we can assume that in fact means the complete transcendence to the very concept of dimensions.
But in most cases we do not have enough clear evidence.
Very often, such a concepts are transcendental to something more complex than the regular three-dimensional universe + linear time.
And every time, we can assume that in fact means the complete transcendence to the very concept of dimensions.
But in most cases we do not have enough clear evidence.
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@Azathoth Okay. No problem.
@DarkLK And sometimes it also strongly contradicts all other known information about the characters, such as when the writer J.M. DeMatteis described Dormammu, Umar, and Eternity as being beyond time and space, in the 2005 Defenders series.
@DarkLK And sometimes it also strongly contradicts all other known information about the characters, such as when the writer J.M. DeMatteis described Dormammu, Umar, and Eternity as being beyond time and space, in the 2005 Defenders series.
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In addition, he is not even consistent himself.
Within the above-mentioned Defenders series for example, he first describes an embodiment of time and space (Eternity), and two established higher-dimensional entities (Dormammu and Umar) as being beyond time and space.
Then the power of Eternity is strictly portrayed as capable of rewriting a single universe, when Dormammu utilises it.
And finally, Dormammu is stalemated by Doctor Strange, and has the flames of his head blown out by the Hulk.
If we would accept his assertions at face value, we would likely get a tier 1-A Hulk.
Within the above-mentioned Defenders series for example, he first describes an embodiment of time and space (Eternity), and two established higher-dimensional entities (Dormammu and Umar) as being beyond time and space.
Then the power of Eternity is strictly portrayed as capable of rewriting a single universe, when Dormammu utilises it.
And finally, Dormammu is stalemated by Doctor Strange, and has the flames of his head blown out by the Hulk.
If we would accept his assertions at face value, we would likely get a tier 1-A Hulk.
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Hmm. It seems like Dormammu rewrote an entire multiverse, but that the story strictly focused on a single universe later on then. Perhaps we should change his tier to 2-A instead?
Regardless, previously in the story, the Hulk was defeated by a horde of Mindless Ones. I can see his upper limit as High 3-A though, as that is strictly infinite 3-D power.
Regardless, previously in the story, the Hulk was defeated by a horde of Mindless Ones. I can see his upper limit as High 3-A though, as that is strictly infinite 3-D power.
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@Dark
Indeed, which is why it can be so hard. Especially in the case of the Chaos Gods, where perfect consistency isn't exactly the first thing on many writers' minds, and the power of the Gods themselves is...odd.
For instance, Tzeentch's maze twists through nine dimensions solely for the reason that he is obsessed with the number nine, and so he made it so. I'm not even kidding. For instance, in order to record all of Fateweaver's thoughts, he specifically assigned nine groups of nine Lords of Change to keep track. Never more, never less. Mentioning part of Tzeentch's territory specifically being 9-D implies this is different from the domain of the other Gods. Not because they can't, but because unlike Tzeentch, they are not obsessed with the number nine. Coupled with stuff like Warp space essentially eating lesser space to increase an area's own dimensional structure, it can be incredibly hard to determine exactly how powerful the Gods are, or at least how consistently powerful they are intended to be.
That's why I'm hoping to possibly find some quotes that are very clear in their meaning.
Indeed, which is why it can be so hard. Especially in the case of the Chaos Gods, where perfect consistency isn't exactly the first thing on many writers' minds, and the power of the Gods themselves is...odd.
For instance, Tzeentch's maze twists through nine dimensions solely for the reason that he is obsessed with the number nine, and so he made it so. I'm not even kidding. For instance, in order to record all of Fateweaver's thoughts, he specifically assigned nine groups of nine Lords of Change to keep track. Never more, never less. Mentioning part of Tzeentch's territory specifically being 9-D implies this is different from the domain of the other Gods. Not because they can't, but because unlike Tzeentch, they are not obsessed with the number nine. Coupled with stuff like Warp space essentially eating lesser space to increase an area's own dimensional structure, it can be incredibly hard to determine exactly how powerful the Gods are, or at least how consistently powerful they are intended to be.
That's why I'm hoping to possibly find some quotes that are very clear in their meaning.
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I agree with this revision.
This reminds me of how The Living Tribunal was originally only powerful enough to destroy stars in older comics, but later became the Infinite-Dimensional Being we all know and love today in newer comics.
See, it's a common thing in fiction for characters to become more powerful as time goes on, if the Chaos Gods are portrayed as 12-D in older Warhammer 40k Lore and Outerversal in newer Warhammer 40k Lore, than I believe that the addition of a key would be the most appropriate for this revision.
It is already done with a key for the Fantasy Chaos Gods and the 40k Chaos Gods, so a Post-Retcon Chaos Gods key would not be too much of a change.
But those are just my thoughts on the matter.
This reminds me of how The Living Tribunal was originally only powerful enough to destroy stars in older comics, but later became the Infinite-Dimensional Being we all know and love today in newer comics.
See, it's a common thing in fiction for characters to become more powerful as time goes on, if the Chaos Gods are portrayed as 12-D in older Warhammer 40k Lore and Outerversal in newer Warhammer 40k Lore, than I believe that the addition of a key would be the most appropriate for this revision.
It is already done with a key for the Fantasy Chaos Gods and the 40k Chaos Gods, so a Post-Retcon Chaos Gods key would not be too much of a change.
But those are just my thoughts on the matter.
