Upgrade For the Copy Ninja

[karo_senpaii]

Also since it is obito six path chakra can't we like scale it from him?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

DMS Obito doesn't have any physical feats other than tanking the Gravity Dimension that pained Naruto Sasuke and Kaguya, which Kakashi did too, tho ig you could scale him to the feats he performed with Black Zetsu on him (though I'm a little sus of that).

 

[RanaProGamer]

DMS Obito doesn't have any physical feats other than tanking the Gravity Dimension that pained Naruto Sasuke and Kaguya, which Kakashi did too, tho ig you could scale him to the feats he performed with Black Zetsu on him (though I'm a little sus of that).

True, we don’t know how much Zetsu was amping Obito.

 

[karo_senpaii]

DMS Obito doesn't have any physical feats other than tanking the Gravity Dimension that pained Naruto Sasuke and Kaguya, which Kakashi did too, tho ig you could scale him to the feats he performed with Black Zetsu on him (though I'm a little sus of that).

That's what I'm talking about. Black zetsu on his own doesn't really do anything. Most likely the six path chakra obito stole from madara is what boosted him. And also his dms too

 

[karo_senpaii]

True, we don’t know how much Zetsu was amping Obito.

Yeah black zetsu amped white zetsu. Still got split in half by naruto rasenshuriken. He doesn't really do much of anything

 

[KaydeeX]

Then, yes, it'd be limited to the Raikiri and Shuriken stuff. Normal Kamui is a different thing. Those two are other moves imbued with a Kamui aftereffect, if that makes sense.

Well, I guess you could say that the whole physical contact thing is limited to physical objects imbedded in Kamui.

Afterall, when Kakashi hits Kaguya with a Kamui-Raikiri we see her blood flow in the same direction as Kakashi, indicating that Force is exerted. When he used Kamui-Large-Shuriken we see some Kpaow kinda stuff on interaction, furthermore indicating physical contact.

Well, as very vague and as fuzzy this can be it can qualify for a possibly rating.
So maybe something like
At least 6C,possibly 5C with Raikiri and susano

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah black zetsu amped white zetsu. Still got split in half by naruto rasenshuriken. He doesn't really do much of anything

This is assuming Zetsu is a linear amp, when we have evidence suggesting otherwise. When Guruguru Zetsu amped Kid Obito, he made him capable of slamming dozens of Anbu, while he amped Yamato to being able to fight Hiruzen and the whole Shinobi Alliance.

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is assuming Zetsu is a linear amp, when we have evidence suggesting otherwise. When Guruguru Zetsu amped Kid Obito, he made him capable of slamming dozens of Anbu, while he amped Yamato to being able to fight Hiruzen and the whole Shinobi Alliance.

This is black zetsu not white zetsu. White zetsu and black zetsu are completely different things

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thing is, it makes absolutely no sense for a dying Obito with a tiny bit of Six Paths Madara's chakra to be stronger than full power Juubito.

BZ Obito's feats are pretty questionable anyway, but that's a story for later.

The main point here is this: BZ on his own is fodder, that much is true. He was pretty confident that Kakashi and Minato could kill him. However, Obito without BZ is also rather trash in terms of showings. Only together do they have any half decent showings, and like I said, even those feats I'd argue are very sus. So overall, ehhhh, I'm not really the biggest fan of giving DMS Obito (and by extension, DMS Kakashi) a 5-C rating based off of this.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Thing is, it makes absolutely no sense for a dying Obito with a tiny bit of Six Paths Madara's chakra to be stronger than full power Juubito.

BZ Obito's feats are pretty questionable anyway, but that's a story for later.

The main point here is this: BZ on his own is fodder, that much is true. He was pretty confident that Kakashi and Minato could kill him. However, Obito without BZ is also rather trash in terms of showings. Only together do they have any half decent showings, and like I said, even those feats I'd argue are very sus. So overall, ehhhh, I'm not really the biggest fan of giving DMS Obito (and by extension, DMS Kakashi) a 5-C rating based off of this.

I agree BZ is probably an amp, but I disagree with BZ Obito's feats being sus.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree BZ is probably an amp, but I disagree with BZ Obito's feats being sus.

I really don't wanna get into it here, since it's not really relevant for this thread, but for me his AP feats boil down to: Deflecting a TSO and off-guarding Madara.
TSO projectiles really aren't all that, in my opinion. And the latter is just not the greatest thing in existence. I don't plan to downgrade his stats anytime soon (or ever tbh, I have a lot on my plate that I care about more), but his feats are utter garbage in my eyes.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[karo_senpaii]

I really don't wanna get into it here, since it's not really relevant for this thread, but for me his AP feats boil down to: Deflecting a TSO and off-guarding Madara.
TSO projectiles really aren't all that, in my opinion. And the latter is just not the greatest thing in existence. I don't plan to downgrade his stats anytime soon (or ever tbh, I have a lot on my plate that I care about more), but his feats are utter garbage in my eyes.

Just want to point out that naruto fully healed obito back to full strength. So he was definitely capable when he gave his chakra to kakashi

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

naruto fully healed obito back to full strength

Nu uh, he was still dying. Naruto just slowed it down a bit. And his full strength is completely uknown, because we really have no reason to scale him to his feats from when Black Zetsu was attached to him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Definitely stronger than OM Obito

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Definitely stronger than OM Obito

Completely and utterly irrelevant for the purposes of this thread.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Nu uh, he was still dying. Naruto just slowed it down a bit. And his full strength is completely uknown, because we really have no reason to scale him to his feats from when Black Zetsu was attached to him.

I'm pretty sure naruto brought him back to full strength and he wasn't dying again. Naruto used creation of all things for him too just like he did might guy.

I Don't understand your other argument though. When he was first attached to zetsu he has like no feats. His feats come to play when he stole six path chakra from madara. So the feats come from him back with six path chakra and not coz of zetsu. Your line of reasoning is no way obito became stronger than juubito. But why is it so hard to believe? Just hashirama here is as strong as juubito if you take away his hax tso and sword of nunoboku. Juubito isn't really all thay strong tbh. He's pretty fodder, I mean save for hax the dude is just twice as strong as BSM naruto. I don't really see it as a stretch for an obito amped by madara six path chakra which was stated much greater than juubito to be stronger than juubito itself. And by the way he didn't steal just a little six path power. It was 8 and 1 tails madara said he stole a little. When madara talked about the sage energy he stole he just said "he stole some sage energy from me".

So if he has the feats what's the issue? Why is zetsu suddenly a factor when every single time we see zetsu attached to something they are still complete and utter fodder

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm pretty sure naruto brought him back to full strength and he wasn't dying again. Naruto used creation of all things for him too just like he did might guy

Well, first off, "full strength" is never uttered. Second of all, nah, he was still dying when all's said and done. Naruto's technique isn't perfect, there are certain things it can't reverse. I guess Bijuu extraction and disintegration just happen to be two of these things, for whatever reason.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Well, first off, "full strength" is never uttered. Second of all, nah, he was still dying when all's said and done. Naruto's technique isn't perfect, there are certain things it can't reverse. I guess Bijuu extraction and disintegration just happen to be two of these things, for whatever reason.

Slayer your first scan obito says " I thought I died" and naruto says "I healed you" why would healing mean any other thing than bringing him back to strength. Isn't that the point of healing.

And I'm pretty sure when he says "die for you" he means it as he would make sure he makes himself useful and would do anything to make sure they win. He doesn't literally mean he is still dying.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Slayer your first scan obito says " I thought I died" and naruto says "I healed you" why would healing mean any other thing than bringing him back to strength. Isn't that the point of healing.

No, not really. Healing does not always guarantee you're back at full strength. You can't just randomly assume he was back at a 100%. Hell, if you look at the other person Naruto healed (Guy), he was brought back from the brink of death, but he was still messed up.

And again, the important thing here is this: Even if we say Obito was at a 100% there, that matters very little because that version of Obito doesn't have any great feats. Unless you wanna use the Gravity Dimension stuff, which no offense, would just be kinda silly.

And I'm pretty sure when he says "die for you" he means it as he would make sure he makes himself useful and would do anything to make sure they win. He doesn't literally mean he is still dying.

You're missing the bit where he says he's "almost out of time".

 

[karo_senpaii]

No, not really. Healing does not always guarantee you're back at full strength. You can't just randomly assume he was back at a 100%. Hell, if you look at the other person Naruto healed (Guy), he was brought back from the brink of death, but he was still messed up.

And again, the important thing here is this: Even if we say Obito was at a 100% there, that matters very little because that version of Obito doesn't have any great feats. Unless you wanna use the Gravity Dimension stuff, which no offense, would just be kinda silly.

You're missing the bit where he says he's "almost out of time".

Naruto didn’t heal guy. He never said he did. He just stopped his chakra from going out. The person he actually healed got a brand new eye..

And I wasn't really driving at certainty he was at 100% I was just telling you that the obito there was not in anyway below par as you were saying to sparkle.

By the way obito actually has very good speed feats though but that's for another time.

He already has fears but you're somehow claiming zetsu had an effect on obito that made him level up while they were attached. I'm saying that's not it, it is because of the six path chakra he got. There has never been a time black zetsu attached himself to something or someone and they powered up. The dude on his own is complete dogshit, the few times he attached to something asides obito they remained complete dogshit. Why is obito case different, I'll tell you why, six path chakra.

Oh I just rechecked. Naruto could heal him fine but he would still die, seems like the extraction is something that can't just be healed.