Upgrade for Nacht Faust

[Idkwhyimhere3]

I'm still new here so I'm not entirely sure what to call this upgrade but, Nacht's shadow magic can interact with elemental intangible beings.

In Chapter 285 we see Nacht make an attempt at striking Naamah but, his fist goes through Naamah this is because Naamah has elemental intangibility. Consistently throughout this fight we see Nacht's shadow grab the Devil Twins despite Nacht himself reaffirming the reader that his own Devil's cannot touch the Twins we can see Nacht's shadows do this in chapter 287 and again in chapter 290.

The only real counter to this is to assume Lilith and Naamah have two different forms: one where they're intangible, and another where they're not. However, the narrative of the fight dictates that Nacht has no other options because his Devils are ineffective. Despite this, his shadows can still interact with them. Secondly, their appearance never changes to support the idea that they have two separate forms.

I hope I did this right.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Arkenis]

Agreed.

 

[KingogKings777]

Agree I want to say if I followed what you want to add correctly.

I think you're saying that Nacht's shadow magic should get Non-Physical_Interaction for being able to ineract with the twins which would be under Elemental Intangibility like you said.

BTW add a section at the bottom of the CRT for agree, disagree, and neutral to keep a track of the Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats who agree, disagree or are neutral with the CRT.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Agree I want to say if I followed what you want to add correctly.

I think you're saying that Nacht's shadow magic should get Non-Physical_Interaction for being able to ineract with the twins which would be under Elemental Intangibility like you said.

BTW add a section at the bottom of the CRT for agree, disagree, and neutral to keep a track of the Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats who agree, disagree or are neutral with the CRT.

Yeah that sounds good, NPI for Nacht's shadows.

 

[Xinsignia1]

The only real counter to this is to assume Lilith and Naamah have two different forms: one where they're intangible, and another where they're not.

Correct, and they do have two different forms.

However, the narrative of the fight dictates that Nacht has no other options because his Devils are ineffective. Despite this, his shadows can still interact with them.

That's because they can turn their intangibility on and off.

Secondly, their appearance never changes to support the idea that they have two separate forms.

Their appearance does change. When they become intangible they assimilate into their element/attribute. And when they do that, their form changes from black to white as shown here and here flying around..

They can also make part of their body iintangible instead of the whole thing, such as when Namaah turned his mid torso into flames . When they turn intangible their forms are black and not assimilated into their attribute such as when Asta reverted them from an intangible state, to a tangible state with demon-destroyer.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Correct, and they do have two different forms.


That's because they can turn their intangibility on and off.


Their appearance does change. When they become intangible they assimilate into their element/attribute. And when they do that, their form changes from black to white as shown here and here.

They can also make part of their body iintangible instead of the whole thing, such as when Namaah turned his mid torso into flames . When they turn intangible their forms are black and not assimilated into their attribute.

I could see this being the case. I hadn't thought about them turning specific body parts intangible. It would still be weird for them to be grabbed by the shadows if they can do that, though. Why would he slip the strikes but not the arms? The same goes for Lilith, who is running for her life. Why would she not slip the hands? This mixed with the narrative of that scene makes me think his Shadows are capable of interacting with them.

 

[Xinsignia1]

I could see this being the case. I hadn't thought about them turning specific body parts intangible. It would still be weird for them to be grabbed by the shadows if they can do that, though. Why would he slip the strikes but not the arms?

They were toying with him and wanted to draw it out as long as possible. Nacht even stated they were toying with him once he realized it and started freaking out.

The same goes for Lilith, who is running for her life. Why would she not slip the hands? This mixed with the narrative of that scene makes me think his Shadows are capable of interacting with them.

So Naalith (Lilith and Namaah fused) turned intangible and assimilated into their element to try get the advantage over Asta, but then he used demon-destroyer to revert then to their physical forms, which also prevents them from turning intangible for a few seconds and gave Nacht the opportunity to grab them. That's how Asta bisected Namaah the first time. So Nacht got them in the window when their intangibility was off as they were fleeing for their life.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

They were toying with him and wanted to draw it out as long as possible. Nacht even stated they were toying with him once he realized it and started freaking out.


So Naalith (Lilith and Namaah fused) turned intangible and assimilated into their element to try get the advantage over Asta, but then he used demon-destroyer to revert then to their physical forms, which also prevents them from turning intangible for a few seconds and gave Nacht the opportunity to grab them. That's how Asta bisected Namaah the first time. So Nacht got them in the window when their intangibility was off as they were fleeing for their life.

I know Asta negated their magic but that should have worn off by then, Lilith was using magic.

 

[Xinsignia1]

I know Asta negated their magic but that should have worn off by then, Lilith was using magic.

Not quite. A few seconds passed at most, considering the fused twins started immediately running a way from Asta, after he reverted them back to their tangible fused state. Not to mention them trying to turn themselves intangible again knowing Asta can immediately revert them makes them vulnerable and leaves an opening, since that's exactly how Namaah got bisected the first time.

 

[AstaDragon]

I agree.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Agreed

 

[KingogKings777]

Bump

 

[Arkenis]

With what Xinsignia said, this doesn't seem addable.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Im inclined to agree,

the appearance of the devil only changes on contact, implying that their original forms are intangible as well. We know this because they could not locate Nacht at all until he hit them. They only change and disperse from their original forms into visible scattered flames in order to make themselves harder to hit in general as Shown with the case of Asta. So Asta negated all that altogether. These actions are similar to logias from One piece: Where their original forms and elemental forms are both intangible.

This would give Asta elemental NPI justifications duh... He probably had earlier feats
This would give Nacht's shadow elemental NPI since his shadows can touch them and they can't seem to phase out of em.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

With what Xinsignia said, this doesn't seem addable.

It very much is debatable. Not only because of the narrative but for reasons Arnold also just listed.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Their appearance does change. When they become intangible they assimilate into their element/attribute. And when they do that, their form changes from black to white as shown here and here flying around..

They can also make part of their body iintangible instead of the whole thing, such as when Namaah turned his mid torso into flames . When they turn intangible their forms are black and not assimilated into their attribute such as when Asta reverted them from an intangible state, to a tangible state with demon-destroyer.

I don't think I can agree with this

Their forms only turn "white" (their elements) in order to destroy something all around themselves such Nacht's BFR spell.

Also, saying Naamah chose to turn his torso into flames indirectly implies that he found Nacht before he got hit. If Asta can't even detect Nacht's Ki within Mana Zone, I don't think the Devils will find Nacht until they got hit.

Nacht was right... according to both you and the OP Nacht claims that his attacks in union don't work on them because Devils can't touch them.

 

[Xinsignia1]

I don't think I can agree with this

Their forms only turn "white" (their elements) in order to destroy something all around themselves such Nacht's BFR spell.

That's not quite true, when turn white Their flesh also takes on the shape of their element. And when they can can even manipulate it as such. Namaah's flesh can even become ephemeral. But he's able to morph it to avoid contact with Asta’s sword.

Also, saying Naamah chose to turn his torso into flames indirectly implies that he found Nacht before he got hit. If Asta can't even detect Nacht's Ki within Mana Zone, I don't think the Devils will find Nacht until they got hit.

So I just double checked the scans, and actually you're right, they didn't detect Nacht until he hit them. However, after rereading the chapter, the sequence of events show Nacht can touch the twins with equus, and did touch them. Nacht actually budged Namaah with Equus, which caused him to contort, even the sfx "whud" is used to show they made physical contact. The moment Namaah felt Nacht, he immediately assimilated that part of his body into his element which caused Nacht to phase through. which is the result of Namaah's faster reaction time.

When Equus made contact with Dante, a similar thing happened except Nacht did more than just budge Dante, he actually damaged him, and similar sfx was used to indicate that contact was made.

Nacht was right... according to both you and the OP Nacht claims that his attacks in union don't work on them because Devils can't touch them.

That's not quite true. The devils can touch them, but power gap made them untouchable in the sense that can't do anything significant. That's why Nacht almost immediately went into the double union as a way to close the power gap since it was stated that a double devil union raises the power of Nacht's spell to supreme devil tier.

I'd also like to add that Asta can cut their intangible elemental forms, but they morph their elements to avoid being hit by the anti-magic swords, much like how Sally morphed her gel magic to avoid being hit by Asta's swords.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Can't see the sfx but sure i guess you make a compelling argument.

 

[Arkenis]

I couldn't see it before but its in the middle stretch across.