Unverifiable GoW scans and ability removal

[Deagonx]

Okay. So it sounds like all that needs to be done here is rewording some of the justifications?

 

[Planck69]

Not responding anymore to Georr's stonewalling/repeated comments

@Planck69

Is there a miscommunication here, perhaps? I am not against the removal of those abilities if any other shreds of evidence exist and can be replaced. My point is, if they indeed "exist," why don't you formulate those aforementioned abilities to use those "feats/statements"?

And I am still saying this with full respect; I am not intending any accusations.

Aite then. Gimme a minute.

 

[KLOL506]

If this WoG isn't valid then it shouldn't be used as support in first place and for cases of complete removal from what I saw (if theres a problem with my interpretation then point it out like Planck) relied mostly on that DM. Can you tackle that before calling my post disingenuous?

The burden of proof is on you to show they were doctored or made with ill intentions, not me.

Either way, you seem to forget that WoG is only used as clarification for what already exists. We would not have been able to use any of it without the game showing it in the flesh or talking about it.

 

[Deagonx]

The burden of proof is on you to show they were doctored or made with ill intentions, not me.

Whoa, what? Why would someone else need to prove private messages are fake? Are you taking the stance that our default approach should be to assume that unverifiable private messages with authors are real unless someone can prove them fake?

 

[KLOL506]

Concept Invul can go.

Concept Invulnerability can stay, it just needs re-linking to Zeus being unable to affect or interact with him in any way, shape or form.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

The burden of proof is on you to show they were doctored or made with ill intentions, not me.

The equivalent of "Trust me bro".

 

[Planck69]

We can do away with the author conversation honestly.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The burden of proof is on you to show they were doctored or made with ill intentions, not me.

Interesting. So I can now fake any DMs, and unless someone else can show me a proof that I fake it, I can use it.

 

[Georredannea15]

He said this because the DM fully supported by the game... But if the community is of the opinion that it should be removed, mehhh I can't say anything.

 

[Deagonx]

That approach makes little sense. If everything the unverified DMs say is in the games anyways, that a reason not to use the DMs, not a reason to use them.

 

[Georredannea15]

Alr then

 

[KLOL506]

He said this because the DM fully supported by the game... But if the community is of the opinion that it should be removed, mehhh I can't say anything.

And because many other GoW supporters with more in-depth knowledge than me (Who actively look for legitimate DMs and tweets that can actually be used and verify them on a daily basis) told me as such. I saw no reason to distrust their word and I personally don't think them to be doctored either based on that. But if y'all wanna remove it, I won't protest, but to pretend none of these abilities fit without WoG is just straight up wrong. If the game didn't have it we wouldn't think twice about never using WoG.

 

[Deagonx]

Who actively look for legitimate DMs and tweets that can actually be used and verify them on a daily basis) told me as such. I saw no reason to distrust their word and I personally don't think them to be doctored either based on that.

If they can explain how these DMs were verified that would be helpful

 

[KLOL506]

If they can explain how these DMs were verified that would be helpful

Unfortunately most of them have since left. I never got the chance to ask them, as the screenshots taken were from before my time on the wiki.

 

[Deagonx]

Then we should remove them and focus on sourcing the feats exclusively from the games or other accepted canonical sources.

 

[Planck69]

• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Conceptual level Type 1. The Great Evils and Hope imbue themselves within a being down to their very soul, affecting all of their mind, soul and very powers as gods. Souls are composed of their form, the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind and their direction, which guides their path to their respective afterlife as per Mimir's words.[3] Damaging souls can shatter and fragment their memories as a consequence)

Click to expand...

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation (Is possessed by the evil of Fear from Pandora's Box, and wielded it against Kratos in their final conflict, attempting to imbue it into what was left of his being after killing him)

These are the new ones for Zeus. I'll work on Kratos' next.

 

[Planck69]

• Conceptual Invulnerability (Type 1. After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became unaffected by the energies and the effects of Fear Zeus, who is the very concept of Fear itself[24]. Athena confirms verbally that what Kratos wields could never be destroyed by Fear Zeus)

• Resurrection (As long as Hope exists, Kratos will continue to keep coming back to life, as after Fear Zeus killed him by snapping his neck, Kratos was forced back into his mind, where he then finally unlocked the Power of Hope and came back to life[24])

• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Fear Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Possession and Statistics Reduction (After Kratos unlocked Hope, After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became unaffected by the energies and the effects of Fear Zeus, who is the very concept of Fear itself)

• Resistance Negation (Was capable of overcoming his own resistance to Conceptual Manipulation when he plunged the Blade of Olympus into himself and released Hope itself to all of Humanity. Scales massively above the Flames of Olympus, which would've killed Kratos despite his innate resistance to Death Manipulation)

 

[FeebasExE]

Okay but why is no selling an attack extrapolated to Invulnerability ?

Remove conceptual manipulation resistance. There's no manipulation of concepts here and being able to interact with a concept in non physical interaction

Resistance Negation nah. Overcoming someone's resistance to something is just layers. Very different from having a mechanism that sidesteps resistance entirely. EG. Red Key from Umineko which ignores the very concept of resistance

 

[Planck69]

Okay but why is no selling an attack extrapolated to immunuty?

Remove conceptual manipulation resistance. There's no manipulation of concepts here and being able to interact with a concept in non physical interaction

The link was supposed to be changed to Enhanced Resistance, guess I forgot.

As for no manipulation of concepts, laughable as that is, we see Zeus do it just fine when he seals the Evils and when he attempts to subsume Kratos with Fear itself.

 

[Deagonx]

Okay but why is no selling an attack extrapolated to Invulnerability ?

Remove conceptual manipulation resistance. There's no manipulation of concepts here and being able to interact with a concept in non physical interaction

Resistance Negation nah. Overcoming someone's resistance to something is just layers. Very different from having a mechanism that sidesteps resistance entirely. EG. Red Key from Umineko which ignores the very concept of resistance

We can have those discussions in a separate CRT. Not this one.

 

[Georredannea15]

The link was supposed to be changed to Enhanced Resistance, guess I forgot.

As for no manipulation of concepts, laughable as that is, we see Zeus do it just fine when he seals the Evils and when he attempts to subsume Kratos with Fear itself.

It's not necessary? Because, against this, Hope was stated and also shown to be unaffected, uninteractive and untouchable...

No need to remove

 

[Planck69]

Anything left to do here?

 

[Planck69]

It's not necessary? Because, against this, Hope was stated and also shown to be unaffected, uninteractive and untouchable...

No need to remove

Regardless, this is a scan verification and replacement issue. Not the place to deal with this.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Anything left to do here?

wait

 

[FeebasExE]

It's not necessary? Because, against this, Hope was stated and also shown to be unaffected, uninteractive and untouchable...

No need to remove

I'd love to see scans where Invulnerability was conferred to Hope. Oh wait, you're assuming again

 

[Planck69]

I'd love to see scans where Invulnerability was conferred to Hope. Oh wait, you're assuming again

Sure, dude. Now can you stop derailing the thread? This is a scan issue not an ability one.

 

[Georredannea15]

I'd love to see scans where Invulnerability was conferred to Hope. Oh wait, you're assuming again

Lol, look at what KLOL left above... If you are going to make accusations and assumptions worse than accusations and assumptions, don't make a fuss.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ignore Georr for a second. I think if you want to deal with someone who sends shreds of evidence with links, do it with those two staff members in a separate thread.

Regarding your modifications, @Planck69, they overall look good. I won't judge if they meet the criteria at the moment, as it would be derailing the current premise of the thread. However, I trust you as a person that these should be legitimate replacements, or at least, that was the original intention, when it was first introduced.

 

[SYPHe5D]

I'd love to see scans where Invulnerability was conferred to Hope. Oh wait, you're assuming again

Not the right place and not the right time, you might as well speed up the process by remaining silent.

 

[Georredannea15]

Guys... Don't jazz anymore, it's simple. Especially you, Dread, keep your personal stuff to yourself.

 

[Dereck03]

Ehmm, actually this is just a rewording of the feats. It doesn't change, remove or add any ability, so I don't see any problem in applying this, it's like adding a new scan and removing an outdated one to the profile.

 

[Planck69]

Everyone here, the thread's reached a conclusion. You're welcome to verify the scans or whatever (they come from the God of War I and II Novelizations and the end of the third game) but aside from that, no more bickering.

 

[Planck69]

Ehmm, actually this is just a rewording of the feats. It doesn't change, remove or add any ability, so I don't see any problem in applying this, it's like adding a new scan and removing an outdated one to the profile.

Hmm, true actually.

 

[KLOL506]

Remove conceptual manipulation resistance. There's no manipulation of concepts here and being able to interact with a concept in non physical interaction

This is just straight up laughable. We see Zeus literally interact with the Great Evils, summon them, manipulate them and seal them inside Pandora's box, and then again when he uses Fear against Kratos in the end of GoW3.

Again, this is an issue of scans, not the justifications. Not that your reasoning for this particular bit holds any water anyway given what's shown with Zeus.

 

[Deagonx]

Can we close this then?

 

[KLOL506]

Ignore Georr for a second.

Dread, I think you should stop with this for a second here. Georre has been doing a lot of heavy lifting alongside Planck here while I was busy doing other stuff, and you're just not helping your case by being this overtly assertive here.

 

[Planck69]

Can we close this then?

Sure. I'll apply the changes to the profiles.

@Dereck03 Can you open Kratos and Zeus' profiles?

 

[KLOL506]

Can we close this then?

Sure. Dereck can open the relevant profiles for Planck to edit now.

 

[Dereck03]

@Dereck03 Can you open Kratos and Zeus' profiles?

 

[KLOL506]

I'll check for the appropriate references and add them accordingly.