Unverifiable GoW scans and ability removal

[BestMGQScalerEver]

So currently on the Kratos and Zeus profiles we have literal private facebook messenger messages being used as scans.

93. A conversation with Stig Asmussen Regarding Concept Artists and their authority over the lore of God of War, the Great Evils and the Power of Hope, and the Cycle of Son Killing Father

Considering the unverifiable nature of the scan and how easily they can be doctored I propose anything related to them gets removed which goes as:
(What's crossed out gets removed)

Zeus​

• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Conceptual level Type 1. Killed Kratos[4]and destroyed his soul and implanted Fear within the latter to erase any remnant traces of his being,[33] with Kratos' soul being capable of withstanding the Light of Alfheim,[34] a higher-dimensional primordial force[35] of the Yggdrasil that not only keeps the Realms separate with its light,[36] but also transcends them altogether,[37] and it absorbs and dissolves all souls within itself, as well as driving its victims insane before incinerating and merging them with itself as one.[35] Souls are composed of their form, the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind and their direction, which guides their path to their respective afterlife as per Mimir's words.[3] Damaging souls can shatter and fragment their memories as a consequence)

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation (Is possessed by the evil of Fear from Pandora's Box, and wielded it against Kratos in their final conflict[33])

Kratos​

(This one might be controversial but considering it essentially relies on the DM conversation scan of him being immune to energies and effects it should get removed)

• Conceptual Invulnerability (Type 1. After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became immune[24] to the energies and the effects[93] of Fear Zeus, who is the very concept of Fear itself[24])

• Resurrection (As long as Hope exists, Kratos will continue to keep coming back to life, as after Fear Zeus killed him by snapping his neck, Kratos was forced back into his mind, where he then finally unlocked the Power of Hope and came back to life,[24] as well as having his soul restored[93])

• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Fear Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Possession and Statistics Reduction (After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became immune to the energies and the effects[93] of Fear Zeus,[24] who is the very concept of Fear itself, as well as those of all the other Great Evils[93])

• Resistance Negation (Was capable of overcoming his own resistance to Conceptual Manipulation when he plunged the Blade of Olympus into himself and released Hope itself to all of Humanity.[24] Scales massively above the Flames of Olympus, which would've killed Kratos despite his innate resistance to Death Manipulation)

Feel free to offer any alternatives to the removed abilities and justifications. Also if there happens to be undeniable proof that these DMs are indeed real and actually from Stig Asmussen then go ahead.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Why are their crossouts

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Why are their crossouts

(What's crossed out gets removed)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

sorry about that my selective blindness and reading kicked on

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

93. A conversation with Stig Asmussen Regarding Concept Artists and their authority over the lore of God of War, the Great Evils and the Power of Hope, and the Cycle of Son Killing Father

Dead scans. Use vignette instead of static

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Dead scans. Use vignette instead of static

Fixed

 

[Deagonx]

I am open to hearing arguments, but I'm a tentative agree. We shouldn't use private messages for our profiles if they cannot be verified. And DMs can't be confirmed by more DMs.

 

[Georredannea15]

Essentially the conceptual manipulation and conceptual resistances and Invulnerability come from the game and some in-game emoticons and scans, facebook scans and other things are just additional support.

As for fear manipulation, mind manipulation and other yeah, yes, these are things that are directly expressed in the game and have feats.

I wrote these for now, Planck and KLOL explain the in-game statements and the 1st canon supports better (and btw, the ones used as supports are basically approved by Santa Monica and Sony) And yes, things from Norse mythology are not found in DM messages.

So, I disagree with the OP. These are not just DM messages, they are just the visible statements of support on the iceberg.

 

[Deagonx]

Regardless of whether we find alternative justifications for these abilities, it is still the case that these statements should be removed.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I wholeheartedly endorse the underlying proposition and firmly believe that it is imperative for us to establish a policy prohibiting the utilization of private conversations between fans and authors, conducted via direct messages, from bearing any substantial weight in our scaling philosophy. I thought this is self-evident, but does not seem so. There is a significant distinction between a public interview or tweet and a private conversation in DMs. The latter can be highly deceptive and thus can be invalid to be used.

However, this is unrelated to the thread's proposal. Let me be clear: I don't mind considering alternative shreds of evidence for the mentioned abilities. However, they need to be contested if they don't meet the criteria for these abilities.

Good Job.

Also if there happens to be undeniable proof that these DMs are indeed real and actually from Stig Asmussen then go ahead.

I believe they shouldn't be used, regardless of their validity.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Following.

 

[Georredannea15]

Regardless of whether we find alternative justifications for these abilities, it is still the case that these statements should be removed.

The contexts next to the abilities can be written in more detail, yes. But, I strongly disagree with removing haxs.

Primordials and all the 1st canon stuff in the game already disproves this. The DM message only supports additional support for these and canon 1.

 

[Deagonx]

You said that, yeah. Regardless, we shouldn't use these statements.

 

[Georredannea15]

You said that, yeah. Regardless, we shouldn't use these statements.

In fact, those DM messages are consistent statements supported by in-game feats/statements and scans approved by Sony and Santa Monica, but if it's unanimously said that the context should be more consistent, then alr.

Where the OP is wrong is that thinks these haxs are only coming from the DM messages above, but they are not.

 

[SYPHe5D]

I’m iffy about the dms but I don’t think the wiki allows the usage of fake scans so them being fake is kinda strange

 

[Deagonx]

In fact, those DM messages are consistent statements supported by in-game feats/statements and scans approved by Sony and Santa Monica, but if it's unanimously said that the context should be more consistent, then alr.

Where the OP is wrong is that thinks these haxs are only coming from the DM message above, but they are not.

I feel like we are having two separate conversations? We should not include these DM conversations in the justifications if we cannot confirm their authenticity. The claim that they agree with in-game material is not relevant to this.

You don't need to repeat three separate times that you believe the abilities should stay, it's just clogging the thread. The first time was sufficient.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You've probably made this assertion three or four times, but merely rephrasing it doesn't change its significance in relation to your main premise. At this point, Georr, you are stonewalling Deagonx's stance.

He suggests using the existing feats and statements within the verse lore instead of relying on private DMs. Also, the abilities you mentioned are solely derived from those private messages, making them unsuitable as "supportive evidence," as you previously claimed.

Primordials and all the 1st canon stuff in the game already disproves this. The DM message only supports additional support for these and canon 1.

Essentially the conceptual manipulation and conceptual resistances and Invulnerability come from the game and some in-game emoticons and scans, facebook scans and other things are just additional support.

So, I disagree with the OP. These are not just DM messages, they are just the visible statements of support on the iceberg.

 

[Georredannea15]

I feel like we are having two separate conversations? We should not include these DM conversations in the justifications if we cannot confirm their authenticity. The claim that they agree with in-game material is not relevant to this.

I remember that this has already been discussed before and that these statements are true, confirmed. Yeah it was canon... But KLOL helps more in this

 

[Deagonx]

Okay. KLOL is welcome to make that argument if there's good evidence for it. In the meantime, let's not clog the thread.

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree, unless some actual in game evidence can be put forth to maintain the abilities.

Regardless, the DMs need to be removed from the profile.

 

[Planck69]

I'll let KLOL506 deal with the authenticity of the scans but regarding abilities:

• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction (Conceptual level Type 1. Killed Kratos[4]and destroyed his soul and implanted Fear within the latter to erase any remnant traces of his being,[33] with Kratos' soul being capable of withstanding the Light of Alfheim,[34] a higher-dimensional primordial force[35] of the Yggdrasil that not only keeps the Realms separate with its light,[36] but also transcends them altogether,[37] and it absorbs and dissolves all souls within itself, as well as driving its victims insane before incinerating and merging them with itself as one.[35] Souls are composed of their form, the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind and their direction, which guides their path to their respective afterlife as per Mimir's words.[3] Damaging souls can shatter and fragment their memories as a consequence)

Click to expand...

The powers within Pandora's Box imbue themselves within individuals down to the level of the soul (confirmed in the God of War I Novelization, when Hope is initially channeled through Kratos) so like, it'd likely just need a justification rework.

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation (Is possessed by the evil of Fear from Pandora's Box, and wielded it against Kratos in their final conflict[33])

This is self-evident in the game, I am not even sure why it uses these scans.

• Conceptual Invulnerability (Type 1. After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became immune[24] to the energies and the effects[93] of Fear Zeus, who is the very concept of Fear itself[24])

This likely just becomes greater resistance without the "immune statement" since well, Kratos is basically invincible to Fear Zeus in-game.

• Resurrection (As long as Hope exists, Kratos will continue to keep coming back to life, as after Fear Zeus killed him by snapping his neck, Kratos was forced back into his mind, where he then finally unlocked the Power of Hope and came back to life,[24] as well as having his soul restored[93])

Ties back to my response on the soul matters above.

• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Fear Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Possession and Statistics Reduction (After Kratos unlocked Hope, he became immune to the energies and the effects[93] of Fear Zeus,[24] who is the very concept of Fear itself, as well as those of all the other Great Evils[93])

This remains since well, we see him come back from being effortlessly killed and infected with Fear and this time, Fear Zeus can't even interact with him at all and verbatim wouldn't ever be able to destroy him, according to Ascended Athena.

• Resistance Negation (Was capable of overcoming his own resistance to Conceptual Manipulation when he plunged the Blade of Olympus into himself and released Hope itself to all of Humanity.[24] Scales massively above the Flames of Olympus, which would've killed Kratos despite his innate resistance to Death Manipulation)

Does this part even use the WoG? AFAIK it was mostly an observation of the in-game events.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Does this part even use the WoG? AFAIK it was mostly an observation of the in-game events.

Thanks for the reply if DMs are decided to be discarded I'll let people/staff decide on new justifications as I'm mostly focused on the usage of DMs.

About this I discarded it because most of CM resistance/immunity from what I could tell came from the DM conversation

 

[Deagonx]

I'm fine with just reworking the existing justifications without the DMs. We may also have to look at the GoW cosmology page because I believe some are in there as well.

Of course, this depends on what KLOL says about affirming their authenticity. @KLOL506

 

[ImmortalDread]

What about abilities that are exclusively granted by DMs as shreds of evidence?
After reviewing Planck's reply, there were no screenshots from in-verse lore provided as evidence. I mention this with utmost respect.

 

[Georredannea15]

All of these abilities and haxs existed before DM messages... I don't know if this is really necessary because they were flying things anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

Most of the justifications come from the game, not from WoG. WoG is literally just support. It was all based on this blog. This is just being disingenuous for the sake of being disingenuous. Hard disagree.

@Theglassman12 @Aetheric Pariah @GilverTheProtoAngelo

 

[Planck69]

What about abilities that are exclusively granted by DMs as shreds of evidence?
After reviewing Planck's reply, there were no screenshots from in-verse lore provided as evidence. I mention this with utmost respect.

Can you name these abilities?

The immunity is the only thing that comes from that DM. That's it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Georredannea15

You made this comment for 5th time without giving a single logical deduction. If they exist, send them.

 

[Deagonx]

Most of the justifications come from the game, not from WoG. WoG is literally just support. It was all based on this blog. This is just being disingenuous for the sake of being disingenuous. Hard disagree.

@Theglassman12 @Aetheric Pariah @GilverTheProtoAngelo

Are you fine with removing the private messages then and rewording the justifications?

 

[Eseseso]

Music when KLOL arrives:

 

[Georredannea15]

@Georredannea15

You made this comment for 5th time without giving a single logical deduction. If they exist, send them.

Lol what? This is the first time I've made this comment... I've just stated a few times that the haxs and abilities in the OP came from the game and primordials... Just that

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Most of the justifications come from the game, not from WoG. WoG is literally just support. It was all based on this blog. This is just being disingenuous for the sake of being disingenuous. Hard disagree.

@Theglassman12 @Aetheric Pariah @GilverTheProtoAngelo

If this WoG isn't valid then it shouldn't be used as support in first place and for cases of complete removal from what I saw (if theres a problem with my interpretation then point it out like Planck) relied mostly on that DM. Can you tackle that before calling my post disingenuous?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can you name these abilities?

The immunity is the only thing that comes from that DM. That's it.

Any abilities marked fully with a strike-through in OP are entirely pertinent.

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation
• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction
• Conceptual Invulnerability
• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation

 

[Planck69]

@Georredannea15

You made this comment for 5th time without giving a single logical deduction. If they exist, send them.

The blog we've been using for 5 years?

The ending of the entire game?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Disagree

 

[Georredannea15]

Any abilities marked fully with a strike-through in OP are entirely pertinent.

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation
• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interaction
• Conceptual Invulnerability
• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation

Except for this, all of them come from within the game... But wait for Planck since you will react to me...

 

[Planck69]

Concept Invul can go.

The soul stuff I'll just use the novel scan of Hope being imbued to the very soul (plus the gods entire beings and actions being a result of being infected by the Evils, with the mind being part of the soul anyway)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Not responding anymore to Georr's stonewalling/repeated comments

@Planck69

Is there a miscommunication here, perhaps? I am not against the removal of those abilities if any other shreds of evidence exist and can be replaced. My point is, if they indeed "exist," why don't you formulate those aforementioned abilities to use those "feats/statements" in your original blog?

And I am still saying this with full respect; I am not intending any accusations.

 

[Georredannea15]

Concept Invul can go.

The soul stuff I'll just use the novel scan of Hope being imbued to the very soul (plus the gods entire beings and actions being a result of being infected by the Evils, with the mind being part of the soul anyway)

In fact, it has already been shown that Kratos is invulnerable, uninteractable and unaffected against Fear and all other evil concepts... This does not come from the DM message.

 

[KLOL506]

Any abilities marked fully with a strike-through in OP are entirely pertinent.

• Incorporeality and Fear Manipulation

Literally from the game itself. Never relied on the DM.

The Abstract Nature of the Evils (God of War)

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Enhanced Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Vector Manipulation, Probability Manipulation and Non-Physical Interactionhttps://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Non-Physical_Interaction

The soul stuff I suppose could just rely on the novel scan as Planck said.

• Conceptual Invulnerability

Also self-evident in the game. Kratos legit cannot be interacted with by Fear Zeus. At all. The DM is just support. It would've never been possible without the game.

• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation

Literally in the game and as per the blog.

The Abstract Nature of the Evils (God of War)

vsbattles.fandom.com