Unown's getting the nerf bat in -Speed-

[Fllflourine]

It's something that has been bugging me, why are the Unown rated as being Infinite / Immeasurable speed for being in a dimension that resides outside of space/time? Didn't we change the standards required for Infinite speed? DarkLK, our expert/consultant on the tiering system, also stated that, just because a character has immeasurable speed for moving outside space-time, does not mean they can move at that speed within a continuum.

The definition for Infinite speed explicitly reads:

Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count.)

Furthermore, weren't the Unown tagged by Entei? In whichever case, it is an unbelievably large outlier for it to have been accepted even previously, it does not fit into the context of the series at all, having been attacked and fought off by normal Pokemon and even humans.

 

[Zensum]

Agreed, I too have been wondering this. They showed no speed feats worthy of infinite speed in Pokémon 3. Thier dimension may be located outside time but otherwise they aren't that fast

 

[Kaltias]

The Unown being Unknown is just so fitting

 

[Thebluedash]

Flo seems to make sense.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I don't think we started to apply the standards you mentioned yet. IIRC, Ryu and Dark are planning to revise all profiles who follow the old standards.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Many characters have it for that reaso (I know I just named one example, but dog via hax is a meme, so it's relatable)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but we gonna change it. Void feats won't be infinite anymore.

Now not sure if we should start changing them now or if we should wait till the big revision.

 

[Antvasima]

You can change the Unown profile according to our updated speed system now if you wish.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I still strongly disagree with void feats not being infinite, but whatever.

 

[Ryukama]

If we decided not to give Unown Infinite Strength via being a higher dimensional being, I don't think he should have Infinite Speed for that either.

 

[Overlord775]

it seems that mirage mewtwo is going to get a speed downgrade

 

[PaChi2]

The digimon will lose their infinite speed also?

 

[Antvasima]

All characters scaled from void feats or simply being spatially higher-dimensional, should preferably be reevaluated to see if they qualify.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So what, are we going to just make every infinite speed character unknown or something? What are we changing to? How many character do we know that truly fulfill the requirement for Infinite speed? What are we supposed to do here? This is getting very complicated.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Regarding the definition.

Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count.)

Part 1: Don't everyone who has Infinite speed?

Part 2: Do we know any character who does that?

And of course once again, Digimon is used as an example for a Pokemon Thread...

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree with this revision. Also, all other fictions that were given infinite speed based on similar logic should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

 

[PaChi2]

@Dragon sorry but I brought up digimon because something like this affects tons of the profiles.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I brought it up because of the meme. I could easily say GER.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I brought it up because of the meme. I could easily say GER.

Could of used countless other characters as well....But you still used a verse that we had a huge thread, to keep from both being compared.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But are they memetic yet? ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But are they memetic yet? ovo

It just annoys me...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But I said in my original post that I only used him for the meme;_;...

 

[Antvasima]

Only characters scaled from moving in a timeless void or simply being spatially higher-dimensional should be affected.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Anyway, my pet peeves aside, how are we going to treat this stuff?

 

[Fllflourine]

Yeah Stay on topic m8s

 

[Antvasima]

We already have other important issues on our plate, so we will not start a wiki revision project yet, but you can change Unown to unknown speed in the meantime.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Okay then.

 

[DodoNova2]

so living in a space outside time is no longer enough for infinite speed?

 

[Fllflourine]

Since Mirage Mewtwo's speed scales to Unown, shouldnt we adjust him too

Someone can make a new thread for the Infinite speed revision, but I myself am not willing to do so right now

 

[Antvasima]

Ryukama and Kavpeny will handle the wiki revision project eventually, but we have more pressing issues to deal with right now.

 

[Golden_Void]

Like what?

 

[Dark649]

Like what?

For example the verse revisions about Naruto, Bleach, Sonic and etc.

 

[Antvasima]

More specifically some behind the scenes wiki drama, and the problems to access Narutoforums links. Both of these issues are prioritised for the moment.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So what, are we going to just make every infinite speed character unknown or something? What are we changing to? How many character do we know that truly fulfill the requirement for Infinite speed? What are we supposed to do here? This is getting very complicated.

I think that there's being some over-complication of what counts and doesn't count as Infinite Speed here in this wiki. In part due to people applying Real-life science to fiction and whatnot.

I agree that we need higher analysis than simply "Moved in a void, infinite speed", but when something is made so overcomplicated that we have to do multiple Wiki-wide revisions to make it work, I think it's going overboard.

I talked to several Staff Members who dislike our current regulations for Infinite speeds. Immeasurable is fine (Being beyond linear time, barely changed a thing), but Infinite is rather obtuse and complicated on what counts and doesn't count.

 

[Antvasima]

It is rather simple actually.

"Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count."

"Movement in a realm without space or time does not mean that a character has immeasurable speed within a realm of space and time, because there is no distance or time to be measured in the first place."

We had considerable discussion regarding this issue previously, found the most logical solution, and cannot constantly switch back and forth.

 

[Antvasima]

We might be able to change the wording to "Movement in a realm without space or time does not mean that a character has immeasurable or infinite speed within a realm of space and time, because there is no distance or time to be measured in the first place." for better clarity however.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That type of note frankly doesn't make sense to me. Like, what's it even saying?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I get that, I just have some problems with the arguments used for the second paragraph. For instance, one person argued that "Existing before time doesn't mean you are faster than time just like people who lived before cars weren't faster than cars".

Except this is a complete false equivalency. A car is a human invention while time is a fundamental of the universe.

I think that characters who predate the creation / birth of time should be Infinite / Immeasurable.

 

[Antvasima]

DarkLK likened it to different environments with different rules that do not apply to each other, or more specifically not being able to swim on land.

Others simply stated that since the d/t=v formula does not apply for environments where t is nonexistent, we cannot draw any conclusions for how v works when t is a factor to be counted.

Yet another point is that moving in a void bereft of universal time is a common plot convenience that is almost never shown to affect movement speed within a continuum.

As such, it should be considered as a separate hax ability, not as a speed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"DarkLK likened it to different environments with different rules that do not apply to each other, or more specifically not being able to swim on land."

But if you predate the existence / creation of time and your natural habitat is a timeless dimension, why would you suddenly be affected by time just by entering it? This is more than simply leaving the water and stepping on the ground. Both those environments have time, and swimming / walking are just to forms of movement but both produce the same results. This is much more complex than that.

As for the second and third paragraph, this is why I'm against asigning Infinite Speeds for human characters who enter timeless voids. But for cosmic beings who originate from such places / predate the creation of time, etc? I think it's much more reasonable.