Unknow Battle : The Fireman vs Rindou Kouga

[Lapsad]

Both at Unknow tier

Old Man Outerversal

Woman with High-1A via LLT

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I think Fireman is actually a bit higher of a High 1-A. Ultima first tried to get the High 1-As to be Tier 0, though it was rejected, but he did make a compelling arguement. It was agreed to to make them High 1-A.

Basically I think that Fireman would win.

Also this should be moved to Fun & Games, Tier 1 and Tier 0 Matches are banned from the Verses Threads board. As abilities cease to have meaning as levels of transcendence alone take presedence over any sort of abilities or levels of skill.

Rindou's Unknown tier is quite low, Fireman could possibly be a Tier 0 as his Unknown, he simply don't have enough to go on.

 

[Planck69]

The reasoning he used to try to get them to Tier 0 was completely different from what he used to get them to High 1-A. All we know is that the god-tiers at least above two levels of High 1-A in their God Energy forms. Even Ultima opposed a "Possibly 0" for the two.

I'm pretty sure the reason she's on the list is because of having a High 1-A insta-win button which stands a decent chance at one-shotting Fireman since I doubt his hypothetical level of High 1-A (If he is High 1-A) gets to Shinza levels.

Whether Fireman can kill her before she chucks the spear is a whole other can of worms but this seems inconclusive from what I can gather.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yeah, he did use different reasoning. I am just saying that the "Sea of Set" if equated with that of Trascendental Meditation, should make them 0. But we do not equate the appearence of a concept with its source material.

I guess Twin Peaks itself doesn't have feats or statements of that level, outside of basing it upon other things.

So yeah, I guess Incon.

 

[Planck69]

Actually, how good is Rindou's mind-hax resistance?

 

[Everything12]

She uses the LLT as a weapon, so at least above Methuselah's.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

She was able to withstand Hajun's Law and remain a decent person insted of devolving into a Srgala, though I doubt it is High 1-A hax resistance, but I guess we can consider it that, she is the Apoptosis of the Tumor afterall.

Her AP without Hax is above Methuselah's Durability, at least it should be.

 

[Planck69]

Fireman could feasibly incap with High 1-A mind-hax.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Depends on his level of Transendence, Shinza works highly upon levels of transcendence, such as Time Armour making any attacks below Yato's Taikyoku [70 (weakened), 100 (Full)] will be unable to even touch them.

So if he is more transcendent or equal in transcendence to the Tumor he should be able to mind-hax.

Though again, I don't think she gets the full Resistance, and part of the reason I think she remained was at least in part due to Yato holding off Hajun's Law, making far less of it leak into Ashihara no Nakatsukuni.

 

[Planck69]

Obviously Shinza Banshou creams Twin Peaks in transcendence but what's in question is whether her resistances scale to that. Can she resist mind-hax that affects other Gods? If not then it's possible for Fireman to mind-hax. If so, then we'll have to see if there are any other abilities that allow Fireman to have a win-con.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Well, the only Gods she comes in contact with outside of Hajun and Tumor at the end of the Grand Route, are the members of the Yatsukahagi, who don't really display any Mind-Haxing abilities, at least as far as I am aware.

I am not sure if she scales completely, but she likely does considering the fact that she was not effected by Hajun, but iirc this was not Mind-Hax Resistance per se, but was rather just immunity to his Law due to her being the Apoptosis of the Tumor. (Though Hajun's Law is very centred around Mind-Hax).

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Also I find it quite funny that Shinshuu is stuck in the Edo (µ▒ƒµê©) period of Japan, and the place that is cut off from the World, where the Yatsukahagi live and exist in, is called Edo (þ®óÕ£ƒ)

Though the second one means Impure World, a Buddhist term for the Material World, and was once used to mean faeces, though that use is archaic.

 

[Planck69]

In that case then mind-hax would work. Now it's just a matter of Fireman using it before-

>Sees Fireman doesn't have mind-hax

...Wow. This was a waste of time. My apologies.

But he does have sealing, soul-hax and his Type 2 NEP and Type 5 Acausality mean that Rindou can't even interact with him.

Actually your right, he should be above Rindou.

 

[Overlord775]

LLT can hit Hadou gods that have Type 5 Acausality and Merceurius' Sensory which is made of "complete nothingness"

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

In her base form yes, as a Gudou God however she should transcend. And OP is using her Human Key. Meaning all she really as are some High 1-A resistances and LLT, she is still superhuman, just not to extreme levels.

It really just depends on who strikes first, if Fireman goes first he will win, if Rindou goes first she would. So I am going Incon, leaning towards Fireman due to Irrelevant Speed making him move way faster than her.

 

[Everything12]

Plus I'm pretty sure the whole Transcendence things of 1-A and H1A makes stuff like Acausality 5 and NEP not matter if your Transcendence is higher.

Well anyway as soon as she Shoots her Arrow LLT will immediately hit through it's distance ignoring and erase Fireman.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yes, but her movement and reaction speeds are way slower than Fireman, meaning she wouldn't even have the time to use Tenma Fukumetsu. If she manages to throw it he would get hit in a literal instant and be killed, but he moves faster than her, and thus would attack first and kill her.

 

[Everything12]

His speed in his Unknown key is Unknown just like hers.

 

[Planck69]

@Overlord775

Why.....do they have Type 5...? Eh, won't question it.

Being made of nothingness only qualifies for Type 1 at face-value.

@Everything12

I'm not so sure that's the case when it comes to receiving a melee attack. More AP doesn't just overcome being intangible for instance.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

But it is obvious that his Unknown is way higher than her unknown, and considering her stats she is slower than Habaki, Mibu, and Keishirou, who have a Speed of 7, 5, and 8 respectively, and can move at Massively Hypersonic+ speeds, meaning she, with a Speed of 3, is less than MHS+, or at least a lesser degree than those three.

 

[RicardoSama]

Wait what are the win cons for each and Hax resist

 

[Planck69]

Wait what are the win cons for each and Hax resist

We're discussing that.....

 

[Planck69]

But it is obvious that his Unknown is way higher than her unknown, and considering her stats she is slower than Habaki, Mibu, and Keishirou, who have a Speed of 7, 5, and 8 respectively, and can move at Massively Hypersonic+ speeds, meaning she, with a Speed of 3, is less than MHS+, or at least a lesser degree than those three.

If she's slower than an MHS+ on her own then Fireman has an infinite amount of time to get something right.

 

[Everything12]

When it comes to Transcendence LLT's higher level means that it will completely ignore such things as Acausality 5 and NEP because his powers and physiology would be but like fiction to it and would be ignored.

Also is his unknown key higher then his H1A Firemen key?

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Parameters
	Muscle	Fitness	Willpower	Curse	Running	Distortion
First	2	2	6	4	3	0
Chuden	?	?	?	?	?	?
Okuden	20	30	70	68	25	65

In Okuden the Distortion shifts to Taikyoku.

 

[Planck69]

When it comes to Transcendence LLT's higher level means that it will completely ignore such things as Acausality 5 and NEP because his powers and physiology would be but like fiction to it and would be ignored.
Also is his unknown key higher then his H1A Firemen key?

Dude, this is just him getting hit with a spear with High 1-A AP (among other perks). Unless she's destroying the entire plane of existence on which he operates then it shouldn't be any different from a Low 2-C without NPI trying to punch a ghost. We don't assume it works just because of raw power.

Yes, definitely.

 

[Overlord775]

Isn't not a spear with just with High 1-A AP, it's the weapon of an High 1-A god ment to kill another High 1-A god

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

LLT is not just AP, but it can literally erase its foe, and was created to defeat Mercurius and has Existance Erasure, when he attacked Methuselah he had to restrain its Hax, as if he erased him at a conceptual level darkness would cease to exist.

Thus it does have EE.

 

[Planck69]

LLT is not just AP, but it can literally erase its foe, and was created to defeat Mercurius and has Existance Erasure, when he attacked Methuselah he had to restrain its Hax, as if he erased him at a conceptual level darkness would cease to exist.
Thus it does have EE.

Hence the (among other perks).

Yes, it has EE and I know this (c'mon give me some credit). Now why would that EE affect a guy who's for all intents and purposes conceptually non-existent?

 

[Planck69]

Isn't not a spear with just with High 1-A AP, it's the weapon of an High 1-A god ment to kill another High 1-A god

1. That's....just High 1-A AP, going by your description.

2. Obviously I'm aware of the LLT's concept-hax, EE and others. My point was that the higher AP alone shouldn't mean that an unconventional physiology can't circumvent its effects.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend. You just sounded like you thought it was only AP without Concept Hax.

I think it should be able to hit somebody with NE Physiology. His Sensories are made of "complete nothingness" and he should be able to kill his Sensories if he is capable of killing, or at least nearly killing, the Godhead itself.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Even if it can kill him it is still based on Speed, so its either Fireman or Incon.

 

[Everything12]

Doesn't Rindou have Type 8 on Habaki who has Type 9 on the Tumour?

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Type 8 is never really applicable in VS Matches due to it requiring one to bring in extra characters. So she should only be using 1 and 3.

 

[Planck69]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend. You just sounded like you thought it was only AP without Concept Hax.
I think it should be able to hit somebody with NE Physiology. His Sensories are made of "complete nothingness" and he should be able to kill his Sensories if he is capable of killing, or at least nearly killing, the Godhead itself.

Eh, it's cool.

There's "I am total nothingness" NEP and then there's "I'm so non-existent that it breaks logic" NEP. The latter is Type 2 and what Fireman has. I don't think that LLT would affect him in anyway.

Actually Type 8 and 9 are applicable. Though I'm not sure how to treat them in this case. In any case, Fireman still has sealing and can morality-hax.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Fireman due Immersion

...I'm serious he has immersion on a beyond dimensional scale

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Overall this does seem to lean in Fireman's favour

 

[Planck69]

Fireman due Immersion
...I'm serious he has immersion on a beyond dimensional scale

The LLT's range would still allow her to attack though.

But yeah, Fireman takes this.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

It wouldn't. Not if the fireman converts masadaverse into fiction.

 

[Planck69]

It wouldn't. Not if the fireman converts masadaverse into fiction.

You mean the guys dozens of infinities stronger than him on a bad day? Maybe if we assume that he's Tier 0 but otherwise I don't think so.