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Edit: As there is some confusion what it is that I am suggestion here a short notice. This thread is a continuation of a latter part of this discussion in a more appropiate place, in which it was suggested to add universe level, together with an energy requirement to the AP chart. The suggestion I make here is to change nothing from the current way we rank things, together with an explanation why.
So there was some recent discussing about the fact, that energy calculations can't be universe level. Or in other words that we don't have an energy requirement for universe level listed.
That fact comes from something that was discussed in the attack potency revision with Lord Kavpeny. Essentially the reason is that we lack the tools to make any remotely reliable calculation for the necessary energy value. Why is that?
Well, to explain we first have to understand how energy values for such things are calculated. To explain on the example example of Multi-Solar System level:
We assume that some omnidirectional explosion of energy happens in the center between the two solar system. From this omnidirectional explosion only a small part of the energy would actually hit the solar sytsem, the rest would simply fly past in other directions.
Then we look at how much energy it takes to destroy the stars of said solar systems. We reason that the fraction of energy reaching the stars would have to be sufficiently high to destroy them.
By knowing that fraction of energy we can calculate the complete energy such an explosion can have.
This method is basically also what is used in the trivia blog post for energy to destroy the observable universe.
Now what is the problem with that?
Well, two things.
First: At this large scale the fact that thinsg are behind other things becomes a more major problem.
Basically if something close to the explosion is destroyed that things will intake a major part of the energy. The things in the area behind that thing (note that the area is a basically the shadow of the object away from the explosion source, so with distance this area becomes very large) have to be destroyed with what remains and the things behind those things with what is left after that etc.
That means that the actualy energy requirement to not only destroy some of the things of the border of the observable universe, but reliably everything in the observable universe is actually quite a bit larger than what is calculated there. How much larger? Who knows.
Second problem is the the universe at large scale is made up from a lot of things that we have no idea about. Current estimates go that 4.9% of the mass-energy of the universe is ordinary matter. And basically only that part would be considered in the calculation.
The 26.8% dark matter would be left unconsidered and so does the 68.3% dark energy.
Even if we take out the dark energy, that still means we consider only 15.5% of the matter in the universe at all. Not to mention that detailed properties of dark matter and energy are largely unknown.
In other words it's just a really bad estimation, which is why it back then was omitted from the attack potency chart.
Since most universe level feats are self evident either way, that also wasn't usually a problem.
So personally I am in favour of keeping the decission from back then and just listing feats that vastly exceed the energy requirements for Multi-Galaxy level, just as "at least Multi-Galaxy level" and not adding any badly estimated value for universe level.
So, since some wanted to rediscuss about universe level being added, you can do that here now.
So there was some recent discussing about the fact, that energy calculations can't be universe level. Or in other words that we don't have an energy requirement for universe level listed.
That fact comes from something that was discussed in the attack potency revision with Lord Kavpeny. Essentially the reason is that we lack the tools to make any remotely reliable calculation for the necessary energy value. Why is that?
Well, to explain we first have to understand how energy values for such things are calculated. To explain on the example example of Multi-Solar System level:
We assume that some omnidirectional explosion of energy happens in the center between the two solar system. From this omnidirectional explosion only a small part of the energy would actually hit the solar sytsem, the rest would simply fly past in other directions.
Then we look at how much energy it takes to destroy the stars of said solar systems. We reason that the fraction of energy reaching the stars would have to be sufficiently high to destroy them.
By knowing that fraction of energy we can calculate the complete energy such an explosion can have.
This method is basically also what is used in the trivia blog post for energy to destroy the observable universe.
Now what is the problem with that?
Well, two things.
First: At this large scale the fact that thinsg are behind other things becomes a more major problem.
Basically if something close to the explosion is destroyed that things will intake a major part of the energy. The things in the area behind that thing (note that the area is a basically the shadow of the object away from the explosion source, so with distance this area becomes very large) have to be destroyed with what remains and the things behind those things with what is left after that etc.
That means that the actualy energy requirement to not only destroy some of the things of the border of the observable universe, but reliably everything in the observable universe is actually quite a bit larger than what is calculated there. How much larger? Who knows.
Second problem is the the universe at large scale is made up from a lot of things that we have no idea about. Current estimates go that 4.9% of the mass-energy of the universe is ordinary matter. And basically only that part would be considered in the calculation.
The 26.8% dark matter would be left unconsidered and so does the 68.3% dark energy.
Even if we take out the dark energy, that still means we consider only 15.5% of the matter in the universe at all. Not to mention that detailed properties of dark matter and energy are largely unknown.
In other words it's just a really bad estimation, which is why it back then was omitted from the attack potency chart.
Since most universe level feats are self evident either way, that also wasn't usually a problem.
So personally I am in favour of keeping the decission from back then and just listing feats that vastly exceed the energy requirements for Multi-Galaxy level, just as "at least Multi-Galaxy level" and not adding any badly estimated value for universe level.
So, since some wanted to rediscuss about universe level being added, you can do that here now.
