Unicron Vs Vecna

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Vecna is tied to three concepts IIRC

 

[KarmodF]

Wich ones?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Secrets death and magic Even though the serpent is supposed to be the embodiment of magic and he's below him

 

[KarmodF]

I mean Unicron kinda embodies death, but dont know really, his best concept absorb (And I think we all can agree on that) is chaos, how good is Vecna's mind manip.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

This good:

Should also note the Mindhax has a few other useful things considering the vast amount of spells. Mind control wise, it can make people want to assist you to flat out control them and if they resist their mind gets burnt up. Or it can just erase your mind, making it into a numb darkness.

 

[KarmodF]

It its IC to begin with that versatility then I think I should go with Vecna.

 

[Udlmaster]

Okay for reference, the Greater Gods are very massively above Baseline 2-A as is, being able to create their own multiverses, being above Intermidate and Lesser Gods who can kill Primordeal beings who kill beings who can create a Multiverse and so on and so forth.

The Lady of Pain was confrunted by the Greater God of Portal when he attempted to take of Sigil, the Lady of Pain THOUGHT him away, his followers and the Greater God himself was murdered for all the Citizens of Sigil to seen.

Now, her mere thought was enough to kill a Greater God, then we get to Greater God Vecna, GG Vecna was not only able to resist the Lady of Pain's Restricted form, the Form that thought away a Greater Deity so easily people didn't know he died in his OWN domain! Vecna was able to pour his power into his Avatar and was able to basically stalemate the Lady in her Restricted form, only her True Form would end the stalemate, but she's so unbelievely strong in that form that the Entire Multiverse goes when she does this, so she needed both the Help of other Gods and Ye Old Aventurers at Lvl 20+ to fight Vecna's avatar.

That's how above Baseline Vecna is, he can say: "Yeah, No." to the person who goes: "You ******* die." the only hope I can see Unicron having is that he gets to his character sheet before the Luminous being rips it up.

 

[Phoenix821]

Bump.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Paulo, Zach, and Udl, did you guys vote?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I vote Vecna high difficulty

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I don't know.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fair enough, just asking.

 

[Udlmaster]

Oh, yeah, Vecna Mid-diff

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Stalemate

 

[Udlmaster]

For what reasons?

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Neither can kill the other

 

[Udlmaster]

Vecna can erase his Concept from existence, Unicron has no resistance to that in this form.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Huh...

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

>Erase 1-B evil

No

 

[Udlmaster]

>This isn't a 1-B vs 2-A fight.

No.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Destroying Unicron conceptually means you have to destroy his 1-B self as well, since his real form is part of his concept.

 

[Udlmaster]

We're talking solely about this form, hell, even I was talking about that specific form:

Udlmaster

Vecna can erase his Concept from existence, Unicron has no resistance to that in this form.

an hour ago

It doesn't matter if his true form is 1-B, that's like saying you can't kill this ant without killing off the species.

Destroying the concept of his 2-A form isn't attacking his 1-B form, they're two totally different targets.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

His concept is the entirety of the being, the very abstract idea of his existence, including his real form, as well as the possibility of his existence.

You can kill an ant without killing the entire species, but you can't erase the concept of ants without erasing the entire species, since by erasing the concept of ants, it will be impossible for any ant to ever exist at all, unless the concept is brought back.

 

[Udlmaster]

But you can erase the concept of an ant without removing the concept of all ants. Erasing the concept of Unicron's avatar without attacking the concept of Unicron itself. There's a conceptual difference between them both.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Each ant doesn't have a different concept; the concept of "ant" is the abstract idea of ants existing at all.

 

[Udlmaster]

Uh, no? Each ant has a Conceptual existence, everything has a conceptual existence, the Ant has a conceptual existence.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

A concept is an abstract idea and general notion; seriously, that's the definition of the word, by erasing it, you get rid of the general idea of something existing.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yes, the general idea:

The General idea of your existence.

You're actively arguing for me, because if Vecna fights Starscream for instance, doesn't mean he gets rid of all the Transformers.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, but he has to get rid of Starscream's entire abstract idea and everything Starscream is, which would not be hard, since Starscream's concept doesn't include a 1-B real form.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Individuals can have concepts too. That's...like the whole point of Masadaverse-like "can damage your concept" stuff.

 

[Udlmaster]

Each person has the concept of existing, the idea of existing on a conceptual level, each and every person has this, much like how Unicron exists on a Conceptual level, however, it is different for each and every person, if it where a general idea, then Vecna literally would be able to manipulate his concept of existing via the weaker concepts, but he can't because Unicron's concept is on a higher dimensional level, I.E every person individually has a seperate conceptual existence.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

And Unicron's concept includes his 1-B form; to erase the individual concept of "Unicron", you need to destroy everything that can be considered part of him, which includes his true form. I only really started talking about general concepts because you bright up erasing the concept of "ants".

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The concept of 1-B Unicron is 1-B. But the concept of the 2-A avatar of Unicron isn't 1-B (unless the concept of every being in the Transformer verse is 1-B)

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

But isn' the avatar also part of him?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Kinda, but not really. It's still a different thing. A different idea. Hence, a different concept. If you're a non-corporeal being and create an avatar, the idea of you and your avatar are different. It's not the same thing. Hence different concept.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok then.

 

[KarmodF]

All Unicrons depent on the Singularity to exist as such, wich itself incarnates all of chaos, fear, malice, etc... that exists in the Multiverse.

 

[Udlmaster]

@Saikou the Lewd King

THANK YOU

 

[Phoenix821]

Bump.

 

[Phoenix821]

Bump.