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Undead Unluck Discussion Thread

I'll show a tierlist of what I think of how people scale and who would win and such, it'll probably somewhat based on just what i think or believe for a few since some of it can be vague or not much info is known.
 
Arkenis said:
He's wearing armor, so he himself doesn't scale. only with the armor does he scale.
Click to expand...
Is the armor noted to be notably above his own durability? It's a very frequent occurrence in fiction for a character to scale to their armor's durability unless the armor is showcased to
1. Protect a super weak character from power far above their own durability
2. There's statements that the armor >>>> the wearer

Does the armor cover every square inch of his body btw?
Arkenis said:
With the armor sure. without it no.
And Top wasn't going at max speed on spring so we literally can't get the same ap from that.
Click to expand...
Him not moving at the same speed is irrelevant. If his leg broke from kicking the character, and his body was previously shown to withstand 6-B levels of power, the person who he broke his leg against would upscale from that value.

This is like saying that if a character's attack is shown to destroy a planet, that the attack needs to be shown to destroy a planet every time they use it against someone for it to scale to their durability, but with speed instead of AoE.
Arkenis said:
Top's arm breaks here. There's zero to suggest the missile is High 6-B or even crashing into the ground, there is nothing prior to this to suggest Top's base durability is High 6-B, so Top himself is not High 6-B.
0076-010.png

0076-011.png
Click to expand...
He doesn't need any feats prior that are 6-B to be 6-B. Though this problem could be mitigated if he was shown to get stronger, as he'd simply scale to a lower value, and then have a separate key where he's High 6-B.
 
Arkenis said:
Ok please be serious, what do you genuinely think the armor is for? The armor is being used as a means for Top to not be destroyed due to him going near the speed of light. This is why the armor notifies him that he's gonna reach a speed at which the armor's integrity breaks down cause at that speed it can't withstand the energy it's built up. This is also why I do not think when he kicked Spring he was at his max speed.
Click to expand...
The armor just protects him from breaking any bones while going top speed. Since he can't stop on his own. But it does state he's running "again" at top speed. I don't see why he wouldn't be going top speed while performing his attack with unbreakable.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Is the armor noted to be notably above his own durability? It's a very frequent occurrence in fiction for a character to scale to their armor's durability unless the armor is showcased to
1. Protect a super weak character from power far above their own durability
2. There's statements that the armor >>>> the wearer

Does the armor cover every square inch of his body btw?
Click to expand...
No its not but the armor very clearly made to be used to protect him at the speed.

LaserPrecision said:
Him not moving at the same speed is irrelevant. If his leg broke from kicking the character, and his body was previously shown to withstand 6-B levels of power, the person who he broke his leg against would upscale from that value.
Click to expand...
His body didn't withstand anything, he's wearing armor so no.

LaserPrecision said:
He doesn't need any feats prior that are 6-B to be 6-B. Though this problem could be mitigated if he was shown to get stronger, as he'd simply scale to a lower value, and then have a separate key where he's High 6-B.
Click to expand...
He does for it to make sense. Otherwise, theres no consistency
 
Arkenis said:
No its not but the armor very clearly made to be used to protect him at the speed.


His body didn't withstand anything, he's wearing armor so no.


He does for it to make sense. Otherwise, theres no consistency
Click to expand...

You completely ignored my last reply. Provide proof for why the armor should scale tiers above him instead of being vaguely more durable like in 99% of fiction.

Does the armor cover every single square inch of his body? Yes or No.

Not every verse/fiction has to be 100% consistent for a character to scale to a value. Let's use an analogy.

Imagine Dragon Ball ended after the of manga was over. Would Goku and Roshi not scale to Moon level because no other moon level feat exists beforehand? No, Seth thoroughly demolished vs wiki on that train of thought. There's more to scaling a character to something being invalid than "outliers"
 
LaserPrecision said:
You completely ignored my last reply. Provide proof for why the armor should scale tiers above him instead of being vaguely more durable like in 99% of fiction.
Click to expand...
Bruh what do you think it is meant for if not to protect him?

LaserPrecision said:
Does the armor cover every single square inch of his body? Yes or No.
Click to expand...
Yes.
0078-004.png


LaserPrecision said:
Not every verse/fiction has to be 100% consistent for a character to scale to a value. Let's use an analogy.

Imagine Dragon Ball ended after the of manga was over. Would Goku and Roshi not scale to Moon level because no other moon level feat exists beforehand? No, Seth thoroughly demolished vs wiki on that train of thought. There's more to scaling a character to something being invalid than "outliers"
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it requires 100%, I'm saying the scaling has to be consistent amongst the other characters as in that other characters should have fought and blocked attacks from them to actually say there's scaling going on, in this instance with Top he literally does this speed once and never again does it so to say others scale to it based off his durability when his base durability and the armors durability are completely different is nonsensical. And then when he attacks Spring he uses Unbreakable's shoe to hit Andy, why? Because Top himself can not withstand the force of his regular speed.
 
Quangotjokes said:
Chapter 78 page 14.
Click to expand...
0077-009.png

His top speed in the past


0078-013.png

His top speed now.

It is clear Top's "top speed" has progressed to an insane degree. This is something all negators can accomplish with their negation.
Also I was more referring to when he hit Spring, that is never implied or stated to be his top speed which is where all the scaling would apply
 
Arkenis said:
0077-009.png

His top speed in the past


0078-013.png

His top speed now.

It is clear Top's "top speed" has progressed to an insane degree. This is something all negators can accomplish with their negation.
Also I was more referring to when he hit Spring, that is never implied or stated to be his top speed which is where all the scaling would apply
Click to expand...
It’s never stated his top speed increased. He just stopped going that fast after he killed his friends by accident.

Note that he did get injured, which is why he doesn’t like going that fast in the first place. His durability is a lot higher than you give him credit for.

 
Quangotjokes said:
It’s never stated his top speed increased. He just stopped going that fast after he killed his friends by accident.

Note that he did get injured, which is why he doesn’t like going that fast in the first place. His durability is a lot higher than you give him credit for.

Click to expand...

His legs are literally in cast and so is his arm wdym im not giving him credit for his durability lol. Also that scan implies the force generated was double which limits his previous speed.
 
Arkenis said:
Bruh what do you think it is meant for if not to protect him?


Yes.
0078-004.png



I'm not saying it requires 100%, I'm saying the scaling has to be consistent amongst the other characters as in that other characters should have fought and blocked attacks from them to actually say there's scaling going on, in this instance with Top he literally does this speed once and never again does it so to say others scale to it based off his durability when his base durability and the armors durability are completely different is nonsensical. And then when he attacks Spring he uses Unbreakable's shoe to hit Andy, why? Because Top himself can not withstand the force of his regular speed.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood. The armor DOES protect him. But unless there's explicit evidence that his armor scales TIERS above his durability, we assume armor vaguely scales above a characters base durability. Like take any fiction where a character wears a set of armor, but nothing noteworthy is ever said about it, and said character is shown tanking say continent levels of power. We almost never assume their dura is only at that level with the armor. We just assume he vaguely scales a bit below the armor, but within the same tier. Cases with explicit showcases and statements are an exception, like Wonder Woman's bracelets for example.

So no character at any point fights him even while he's wearing the armor?
 
Arkenis said:
His legs are literally in cast and so is his arm wdym im not giving him credit for his durability lol. Also that scan implies the force generated was double which limits his previous speed.
Click to expand...
That’s how his ability works, whenever he tries to stop his force and speed increase.

that’s why he randomly stopped while running around the planet because it could boost his speed up to top speed.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Fair, darn those large size advantages!!!

Misread but my point stil stands about large sizes
Click to expand...
Yeah dude if Sun came to the mashle world he'd send out hundreds of Umas all manipulating laws and just start dropping his clones and bombing every country. And considering the high 6-B for Top he'd prob one shot most of the verse
 
LaserPrecision said:
You misunderstood. The armor DOES protect him. But unless there's explicit evidence that his armor scales TIERS above his durability, we assume armor vaguely scales above a characters base durability. Like take any fiction where a character wears a set of armor, but nothing noteworthy is ever said about it, and said character is shown tanking say continent levels of power. We almost never assume their dura is only at that level with the armor. We just assume he vaguely scales a bit below the armor, but within the same tier. Cases with explicit showcases and statements are an exception, like Wonder Woman's bracelets for example.

So no character at any point fights him even while he's wearing the armor?
Click to expand...
No he just runs and defeats the guy he was trying to fight. Although, he had to be stopped by unmove otherwise the armor may not have tanked the force of stopping on his own.
 
LaserPrecision said:
You misunderstood. The armor DOES protect him. But unless there's explicit evidence that his armor scales TIERS above his durability, we assume armor vaguely scales above a characters base durability. Like take any fiction where a character wears a set of armor, but nothing noteworthy is ever said about it, and said character is shown tanking say continent levels of power. We almost never assume their dura is only at that level with the armor. We just assume he vaguely scales a bit below the armor, but within the same tier. Cases with explicit showcases and statements are an exception, like Wonder Woman's bracelets for example.

So no character at any point fights him even while he's wearing the armor?
Click to expand...
Okay well for Top's case the armor doesn't have anything stated for it yet but it will likely have stuff when the volumes get released (hopefully) but what I'm guessing is that the armor is made from Black Metal which is a metal created from Nico that is extremely durable but sadly right now I don't know and I can't make any claim on it. But yeah no character has been shown fighting him while wearing the armor. He literally used it here then stopped fought no one and then used it like 40 chapters on another character where no context is given on what happened I'll show.
0126-003.png

Top right, my guess is that Seal touched Top and turned his armor into a bomb and it damaged it but again no context is given besides this pic.
 
I think if we had more info I would definitely have created a CRT on why the characters would be High 6-B and that's mainly due to Feng hurting Seal who fought Top but since we have zero knowledge on how the fight went down it's just up in the air for how others would scale to it at all.
 
Arkenis said:
Yeah dude if Sun came to the mashle world he'd send out hundreds of Umas all manipulating laws and just start dropping his clones and bombing every country. And considering the high 6-B for Top he'd prob one shot most of the verse
Click to expand...
Just wait till we get our 6-A's/High 6-A's
 
Arkenis said:
I think if we had more info I would definitely have created a CRT on why the characters would be High 6-B and that's mainly due to Feng hurting Seal who fought Top but since we have zero knowledge on how the fight went down it's just up in the air for how others would scale to it at all.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, maybe once I've read the manga myself i could provide more informative insight.

What I can say though is that a possibly or likely rating would suffice since he did right someone with the armor, but it was offscreen. Possibly and Likely are a better solution than to entirely ignore the fight.
 
Just wanna comment on a few things.

While the AP for the Nyoi-Kinko Staff looks good, the durability changing based on the size doesn't make any sense. The durability should remain the same regardless of the shape it is unless there's an explicit statement of it becoming more durable with size.

Second, once this calc gets accepted for the staff, who would it scale to? I forgot if we discussed it or not. I figure the person who gave their energy to grow the staff to that extent would scale?
 
LaserPrecision said:
Just wanna comment on a few things.

While the AP for the Nyoi-Kinko Staff looks good, the durability changing based on the size doesn't make any sense. The durability should remain the same regardless of the shape it is unless there's an explicit statement of it becoming more durable with size.

Second, once this calc gets accepted for the staff, who would it scale to? I forgot if we discussed it or not. I figure the person who gave their energy to grow the staff to that extent would scale?
Click to expand...
no one physically scales to it, only through lifting strength would they. I already applied their lifting strength. Spring would though ig since he took it without a problem.
 
Arkenis said:
no one physically scales to it, only through lifting strength would they. I already applied their lifting strength. Spring would though ig since he took it without a problem.
Click to expand...
If Spring scales to it, does anyone scale to Spring? If yes, the feat would scale unto them as well.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Oh, not yet. But like, when it does. Though I think that could just be the lower-end of what they scale to since I still think some would scale to the 6-B feat even if only as a likely/possibly rating
Click to expand...
Yeah the island thing kinda irrelevant since the high 6-b exist
 
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