Ovy7
He/Him- 2,626
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Yes, it's finally happening. I wanted this thread to be short, but it ended up much larger than I envisioned it. Special thanks to @Jinsye and @JustANormalPerson01 for helping me.
Anyway, let the curtain open on the third game!
Basically, the When They Cry cosmology is split into two sides, the side tossed around by fate and the side that creates fate. The side tossed by fate is represented by Humans, or more specifically the inhabitants of the Human Domain, while the side that creates fate is represented by the gods/The Creators, beings without any forms of restrictions and obtained everything. The beings in the middle are the Witches (or more specifically beings of the Witch Domain) who, while not tosses by fate but instead create and play with it, they do have restrictions on their power.
The Witches look down on the world of Humans as a gameboard from the higher world. Think of a gameboard the same way as a DnD gameboard is for us, they are like a game set up to show worlds of the lower layer as stories. These gameboards are usually portrayed as Kakera/Fragments, pieces of crystal that represent the conceptual form of lower worlds. These Witches are completely freed from the limitations of the Human Domain, having transcended it and being able to “walk” between the Kakera. Even the languages of the Human Domain are limited compared to the words of the higher Domain.
For the Meta Beings (the beings of the higher domain) the Kakera are like books, movies, or video games to them. The Meta Beings can manipulate the worlds inside these Kakera in multiple ways, like how Meta George and Jessica kill inside the gameboard’s story (but for their Meta self is just moving some piece on the board), fast-forwarding their plot, sewing other Kakera together, firing characters from the story, creating or disposing of characters, or outright changing their story.
When Meta Beings choose to appear on the gameboard, they do so as a Piece. A piece is their avatar in the human world, and for the Meta Being is similar to a video game avatar.
The only known ways of reaching into the Witch Domain is by either being led there by a higher being, becoming their Piece or Miko, in this way the higher being guaranteeing your existence in the Witch Domain; or by an internal evolution of the spirit. Otherwise, the Witch Domain is unreachable to Humans.
The former requires a lot of time, as was the case for Rika and Bernkastel. Only after hundreds of years of traveling the Sea of Fragments in Hanyuu’s protection was Rika starting to delimitate from her human self and internally evolve into a higher being, the Witch Bernkastel.
It’s also good to note that if the higher being doesn’t want to give its protection to the human it brings into the Witch Domain, said human would cease to exist, as they didn’t achieve the internal evolution to be able to survive the pressure of the higher domain and its layers (Endevours).
In the case of one getting into the Witch Domain through an independent internal evolution, this road is even rarer. The only known case till now is the one of Beatrice, where she achieved the evolution into a higher being on her own. But Beatrice is a special case, as her Endless Magic grants her endless evolution. But even in the case of this internal evolution, one must get recognition from a higher-order being for their evolution to be completed.
So, this should be enough to show that the Witch Domain qualifies for the new 1-A requirements.
The Witch Domain is akin to an endless ladder, with its layers or “steps” being called Endeavors. The higher on the ladder they go the fewer restrictions they have proportionally, until they lack any restrictions and become a Creator.
The layers of the Witch Domain also have a transcendent factor between them, the lower layer being just a Kakera or books to the higher layer, such as with Beatrice’s Catbox and games being just a Kakera in Bern’s Catbox, or the entirety of the Sea of Kakera in Hanyuu’s Catbox being just a Kakera in Eua’s; the inhabitants of said lower layers being no more than fictional characters to the higher layer beings.
So, the Witch Domain is a 1-A hierarchy of layers, so the tiering of the entire structure should be 1-A+.
We do not know what the base layer of the Witch Domain is, so the best option would be to go with the local Sea of Fragments of Beatrice’s Catbox and Meta Room/World as the base layer. While the local Sea is a layer lower than the Meta Room, the difference between them doesn’t seem to be of reality-fiction so we’ll take both as being in the same R>F layer.
Next would be the layer of the GameMaster, which we are directly told to be on a higher existence than anything in the Catbox. This makes sense as the GM is pretty much the God of the Catbox, the one that spins the story and creates or disposes of the characters, with the entire Catbox and even its Meta Beings inhabitants existing only as long as he exists.
Hanyuu’s Catbox is likely on the same level as Beatrice’s (so scales to the above). There are arguments for it being much higher (cause there are a lot of Higurashi entries. . . like, A LOT), but I’m going with this now for simplicity. Eua’s own Catbox is one layer higher, as Hanyuu’s Catbox is a mere Kakera in Eua’s local Sea of Fragments, as shown in the previous section.
The Cathedral of Bernkastel’s Catbox would be on the same level as Eua’s, as it’s inside of a larger Catbox than Beato's, where the games from Beatrice’s Catbox are mere Kakera here. The Witch’s Theater seems to be a higher layer, as the events in the Cathedral are just a play told by Clair (like when Will killed her in the Cathedral, but in the Theater Clair is still alive telling the events of this). The Sea of Fragments to which Lion escaped after fleeing from the Theater should be another layer (due to how the fragments work). Finally, Bernkaster herself would be on an even higher layer than all of this due to being the Gamemaster and everything till now being just a mere gameboard.
There are places in higher layers than these, places like Hell or the Great Court of Heaven, where Dlanor and Will reside normally, but we don’t know how high these places are in the hierarchy.
A TL;DR on this:
Baseline - Beatrice’s Meta World and local Sea of Fragments
1 layer above baseline - The GameMaster of Beatrice’s Catbox and Hanyuu’s Catbox
2 layers above baseline - Eua’s Catbox and the Cathedral of Bernkastel’s Catbox
3 layers above baseline - The Witch’s Theater of Bernkastel’s Catbox
4 layers above baseline - The Sea of Fragments to which Lion escaped to
5 layers er above baseline - Bernkastel as GameMaster of her Catbox
Unknown layers above baseline - Hell and the Great Court of Heaven
We are told that Featherine reached an even higher world than the Domain of Witches, one from which the entire Witch Domain is a mere gameboard, the same way the Human Domain is to the Witch Domain. Furthermore, it seems that her Study and City of Books seem to also be outside the Witch Domain, very likely being situated in this higher domain.
Additionally, it is noted that the difference between the domains is trivial to her, and Tohya Hachijo and Featherine Augustus Aurora are just roles of an indescribable actor entity. Featherine's main power also allows her to see the entirety of Creation as a story and rewrite it at will. And, finally, Piece also mentions that Featherine is the "Great Pillar that supports the World".
Based on this, I think this world that Featherine reached, including her Study and the City of Books, along with Featherine's True Form should all qualify for High 1-A.
All mentions of Featherine being a Creator should be purged from her profile. In Umineko Saku - Last Note, the final Umineko entry we got (excluding the Higurashi Mei colabs), we are directly told that she is not a Creator, just the closest one to it. Featherine chose to not become a Creator because the final restriction is that of identity, so she would have lost herself and disappeared.
Also, I think the Creator key for Maria should also be removed, as it’s all just a “maybe she’ll reach that level someday” thing.
As mentioned at the start, Creator or Creators (depending on which translation you chose), are beings that reach complete omnipotence and omniscience and lack any restrictions. By having no restrictions, they also lose even the restriction of their own meaning, and they cease to exist in the conventional sense, JP:
In this way, there is nothing beyond them, because whoever reaches this level would disappear. Plurality or being more than one also doesn’t make sense, because the concept of individuality itself is gone on this level. And, finally, the way this level is reached by removing restrictions should not disqualify it, as it follows the stuff laid out in our Omnipotence page if I understood it right.
Human Domain - Remains the same
Witch Domain - Becomes 1-A+. All the characters that scale to different structures in the Witch Domain (such as Beatrice’s and Bern’s Catboxes) would scale to different 1-A level as mentioned previously
Auau’s Study/City of Books - All the characters who have keys for this should have said key become High 1-A
Auau’s True Form - Featherine’s True Form key would become High 1-A, based on the reasoning for her profile
Creators - The Creators are Tier 0, if accepted. Not yet sure if we should bring their page back, but I’m fine either way.
The stuff about adding references to the profiles and P&A revisions would come a bit later.
Anyway, let the curtain open on the third game!
TLDR on the cosmology
Basically, the When They Cry cosmology is split into two sides, the side tossed around by fate and the side that creates fate. The side tossed by fate is represented by Humans, or more specifically the inhabitants of the Human Domain, while the side that creates fate is represented by the gods/The Creators, beings without any forms of restrictions and obtained everything. The beings in the middle are the Witches (or more specifically beings of the Witch Domain) who, while not tosses by fate but instead create and play with it, they do have restrictions on their power.
Witch Domains transcendence over the Human Domain
The Witches look down on the world of Humans as a gameboard from the higher world. Think of a gameboard the same way as a DnD gameboard is for us, they are like a game set up to show worlds of the lower layer as stories. These gameboards are usually portrayed as Kakera/Fragments, pieces of crystal that represent the conceptual form of lower worlds. These Witches are completely freed from the limitations of the Human Domain, having transcended it and being able to “walk” between the Kakera. Even the languages of the Human Domain are limited compared to the words of the higher Domain.
For the Meta Beings (the beings of the higher domain) the Kakera are like books, movies, or video games to them. The Meta Beings can manipulate the worlds inside these Kakera in multiple ways, like how Meta George and Jessica kill inside the gameboard’s story (but for their Meta self is just moving some piece on the board), fast-forwarding their plot, sewing other Kakera together, firing characters from the story, creating or disposing of characters, or outright changing their story.
When Meta Beings choose to appear on the gameboard, they do so as a Piece. A piece is their avatar in the human world, and for the Meta Being is similar to a video game avatar.
The only known ways of reaching into the Witch Domain is by either being led there by a higher being, becoming their Piece or Miko, in this way the higher being guaranteeing your existence in the Witch Domain; or by an internal evolution of the spirit. Otherwise, the Witch Domain is unreachable to Humans.
The former requires a lot of time, as was the case for Rika and Bernkastel. Only after hundreds of years of traveling the Sea of Fragments in Hanyuu’s protection was Rika starting to delimitate from her human self and internally evolve into a higher being, the Witch Bernkastel.
It’s also good to note that if the higher being doesn’t want to give its protection to the human it brings into the Witch Domain, said human would cease to exist, as they didn’t achieve the internal evolution to be able to survive the pressure of the higher domain and its layers (Endevours).
In the case of one getting into the Witch Domain through an independent internal evolution, this road is even rarer. The only known case till now is the one of Beatrice, where she achieved the evolution into a higher being on her own. But Beatrice is a special case, as her Endless Magic grants her endless evolution. But even in the case of this internal evolution, one must get recognition from a higher-order being for their evolution to be completed.
So, this should be enough to show that the Witch Domain qualifies for the new 1-A requirements.
The Witch Domain’s structure and the ascension through the layers
The Witch Domain is akin to an endless ladder, with its layers or “steps” being called Endeavors. The higher on the ladder they go the fewer restrictions they have proportionally, until they lack any restrictions and become a Creator.
The layers of the Witch Domain also have a transcendent factor between them, the lower layer being just a Kakera or books to the higher layer, such as with Beatrice’s Catbox and games being just a Kakera in Bern’s Catbox, or the entirety of the Sea of Kakera in Hanyuu’s Catbox being just a Kakera in Eua’s; the inhabitants of said lower layers being no more than fictional characters to the higher layer beings.
So, the Witch Domain is a 1-A hierarchy of layers, so the tiering of the entire structure should be 1-A+.
Relevant Witch Domain layers for scaling the characters
We do not know what the base layer of the Witch Domain is, so the best option would be to go with the local Sea of Fragments of Beatrice’s Catbox and Meta Room/World as the base layer. While the local Sea is a layer lower than the Meta Room, the difference between them doesn’t seem to be of reality-fiction so we’ll take both as being in the same R>F layer.
Next would be the layer of the GameMaster, which we are directly told to be on a higher existence than anything in the Catbox. This makes sense as the GM is pretty much the God of the Catbox, the one that spins the story and creates or disposes of the characters, with the entire Catbox and even its Meta Beings inhabitants existing only as long as he exists.
Hanyuu’s Catbox is likely on the same level as Beatrice’s (so scales to the above). There are arguments for it being much higher (cause there are a lot of Higurashi entries. . . like, A LOT), but I’m going with this now for simplicity. Eua’s own Catbox is one layer higher, as Hanyuu’s Catbox is a mere Kakera in Eua’s local Sea of Fragments, as shown in the previous section.
The Cathedral of Bernkastel’s Catbox would be on the same level as Eua’s, as it’s inside of a larger Catbox than Beato's, where the games from Beatrice’s Catbox are mere Kakera here. The Witch’s Theater seems to be a higher layer, as the events in the Cathedral are just a play told by Clair (like when Will killed her in the Cathedral, but in the Theater Clair is still alive telling the events of this). The Sea of Fragments to which Lion escaped after fleeing from the Theater should be another layer (due to how the fragments work). Finally, Bernkaster herself would be on an even higher layer than all of this due to being the Gamemaster and everything till now being just a mere gameboard.
There are places in higher layers than these, places like Hell or the Great Court of Heaven, where Dlanor and Will reside normally, but we don’t know how high these places are in the hierarchy.
A TL;DR on this:
Baseline - Beatrice’s Meta World and local Sea of Fragments
1 layer above baseline - The GameMaster of Beatrice’s Catbox and Hanyuu’s Catbox
2 layers above baseline - Eua’s Catbox and the Cathedral of Bernkastel’s Catbox
3 layers above baseline - The Witch’s Theater of Bernkastel’s Catbox
4 layers above baseline - The Sea of Fragments to which Lion escaped to
5 layers er above baseline - Bernkastel as GameMaster of her Catbox
Unknown layers above baseline - Hell and the Great Court of Heaven
Even higher than the Witch Domain
We are told that Featherine reached an even higher world than the Domain of Witches, one from which the entire Witch Domain is a mere gameboard, the same way the Human Domain is to the Witch Domain. Furthermore, it seems that her Study and City of Books seem to also be outside the Witch Domain, very likely being situated in this higher domain.
Additionally, it is noted that the difference between the domains is trivial to her, and Tohya Hachijo and Featherine Augustus Aurora are just roles of an indescribable actor entity. Featherine's main power also allows her to see the entirety of Creation as a story and rewrite it at will. And, finally, Piece also mentions that Featherine is the "Great Pillar that supports the World".
Based on this, I think this world that Featherine reached, including her Study and the City of Books, along with Featherine's True Form should all qualify for High 1-A.
Auau and Creators
All mentions of Featherine being a Creator should be purged from her profile. In Umineko Saku - Last Note, the final Umineko entry we got (excluding the Higurashi Mei colabs), we are directly told that she is not a Creator, just the closest one to it. Featherine chose to not become a Creator because the final restriction is that of identity, so she would have lost herself and disappeared.
Also, I think the Creator key for Maria should also be removed, as it’s all just a “maybe she’ll reach that level someday” thing.
Tier 0 Creators maybe maybe…
As mentioned at the start, Creator or Creators (depending on which translation you chose), are beings that reach complete omnipotence and omniscience and lack any restrictions. By having no restrictions, they also lose even the restriction of their own meaning, and they cease to exist in the conventional sense, JP:
In this way, there is nothing beyond them, because whoever reaches this level would disappear. Plurality or being more than one also doesn’t make sense, because the concept of individuality itself is gone on this level. And, finally, the way this level is reached by removing restrictions should not disqualify it, as it follows the stuff laid out in our Omnipotence page if I understood it right.
Conclusion
Human Domain - Remains the same
Witch Domain - Becomes 1-A+. All the characters that scale to different structures in the Witch Domain (such as Beatrice’s and Bern’s Catboxes) would scale to different 1-A level as mentioned previously
Auau’s Study/City of Books - All the characters who have keys for this should have said key become High 1-A
Auau’s True Form - Featherine’s True Form key would become High 1-A, based on the reasoning for her profile
Creators - The Creators are Tier 0, if accepted. Not yet sure if we should bring their page back, but I’m fine either way.
The stuff about adding references to the profiles and P&A revisions would come a bit later.
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