Ultra Series Revision Part 1

[WanderingGecko]

Inner Light​

As it stands, the Inner Light blog currently featured on the Ultra Series page is not only outdated but also suffers from a chaotic format (no offense intended to the original creator).

In light of this, I’ve taken the initiative to craft a fresh and polished Inner Light page that will truly reflect its significance and make it official!

Greeza's Conceptual Existence​

Greeza's existence has long been a topic of discussion, but today, I invite you to explore his intriguing status as a conceptual void—an entity that embodies the very absence of existence itself.

This blog thoroughly explores that notion in detail.

Diavolo's Multiversal Feat​

This entry is brief and straightforward, focusing solely on the number of universes that Diavolo obliterated.

Here’s the blog that delves into this remarkable feat.

Calculations​

This shouldn't be here, but since there's a lack of CGM actually coming and evaluating the calcs I've put, It'd be best that I address them here.

Speed

1. Shinya Mizorogi Deflects a Bullet (Supersonic+)
2. Ultraman Blazar Goes to Nevada (Massively Hypersonic)
3. Ultraman Arc Goes to Space (Massively Hypersonic)
4. Ginga Flies to The Moon (Sub-Relativistic)
5. X and Greeza Ravage Through The Solar System (FTL+)
6. Ultraman Gaia & Agul Fly Back to Earth (MFTL)
7. Ace Flies to The Orion Constellation (MFTL+)
8. Ultraman Arc Flies to Another Galaxy (MFTL+)

Attack Potency

1. Arc's Exa Slash (Large Town level)
2. Woola's Galactic Rage (Multi-Solar System level)
3. Luganoger's Planetary Destruction (Brown Dwarf level+)
4. The Minimal Energy Needed to Blow Up The Land of Light (Brown Dwarf level)

Agree (Super Cool): @EddisherSound @Mr.Cutlery @Peter1129 @HswLOTSS @GrayCraft_Dragon @DarkDragonMedeus (Everything except Abstract Existence), @Sir_Ovens (Everything except Abstract Existence Type 1; Agrees on it being Type 2), @Kisaragi_Megumi
Disagree (Boo Not Cool): @Vzearr (Disagrees on a lot of the Calculations), @Sir_Ovens (Disagrees with Abstract Existence Type 1), @Agnaa (Greeza’s Blog as a whole)
Neutral (Pacifist): @DarkDragonMedeus (Neutral on Abstract Existence and Calculations)

 

[EddisherSound]

Good work as usual, agree

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

It's a good next step. And I mean, I was always just a stopgap, so good work on the polishing.

 

[WanderingGecko]

It's a good next step. And I mean, I was always just a stopgap, so good work on the polishing.

You definitely played a large part in this, without you I wouldn’t have found the scans lel.

I’ll assume that you agree since we’ve practically discussed everything here on the Toku Discord yes?

 

[HswLOTSS]

Looks fine.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Definitely agree!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Going to remain neutral until Calc Group evaluations.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Going to remain neutral until Calc Group evaluations.

What about the non-calculation parts?

 

[WanderingGecko]

Bump.

Please don’t let this be abandoned again

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What about the non-calculation parts?

The 2-C feat looks alright, Inner Light page update looks alright, Neutral about Abstract Existence (It's a topic I don't consider myself best judgement for)

 

[WanderingGecko]

The 2-C feat looks alright, Inner Light page update looks alright, Neutral about Abstract Existence (It's a topic I don't consider myself best judgement for)

Alright then thanks for the evaluation

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Greeza should have abstract existence type 1 since he is the concept of nonexistence.

Everything should be fine.

Edit: Actually the statement was "embodying the concept of nothingness", which would be type 2 abstract existence, not type 1.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Edit: Actually the statement was "embodying the concept of nothingness", which would be type 2 abstract existence, not type 1.

That’s just clarifying Greeza’s AE Type 1, he is the abstract void itself, he lacks a true form and clarified further in the scans.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That’s just clarifying Greeza’s AE Type 1, he is the abstract void itself, he lacks a true form and clarified further in the scans.

Yes but he's a void not  because he's abstract. There's a crucial difference. All the scans in the blog just say he's nonexistent and lacks any physical form. That's perfectly fine but to be abstract type 1 you need a statement that says he's the concept of nonexistence, not just the embodiment of it. More compelling evidence for type 1 would be nonexistence as a concept being destroyed if Greeza himself was destroyed.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Yes but he's a void not  because he's abstract. There's a crucial difference. All the scans in the blog just say he's nonexistent and lacks any physical form. That's perfectly fine but to be abstract type 1 you need a statement that says he's the concept of nonexistence, not just the embodiment of it. More compelling evidence for type 1 would be nonexistence as a concept being destroyed if Greeza himself was destroyed.

He is abstract in nature; he is beyond human comprehension, and the only reason we are able to see his form is that he forces our minds to perceive him. The only reason he is called an embodiment is that he has a pseudophysical form he conjured up due to our inability to perceive him.

Spoiler: Scan 1

"Emptiness monster Gleeza (second form).This is the form that Greeza takes in order to operate on earth. Greeza is essentially ‘nothing’ and therefore does not strictly exist, but our brains have forced us to visualise it and this form is what we see. They are more like natural phenomena than living beings, but because they have a clear intention, they are categorised as ‘monsters’, although they transcend our common sense."

He's the hole in space itself, the actual void he's said to "embody". His insides is the void too.

Spoiler: Scan 2

Another thing to note is that LordGriffin agreed to Greeza's Type 1 Abstract Existence (though it was 3 years ago).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah no, these are all scans for nonexistent physiology. Being imperceptible is still nonexistent physiology. The issue here is that there's no evidence that Greeza personifies an abstract concept as the concept itself. He's an avatar for nonexistence, sure. But he is NOT nonexistence (as a concept) itself.

I had a whole discussion about this with the Ultraman supporters in the Toku Discord. You can ask them about what I told them cause I don't wanna repeat the whole thing.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Yeah no, these are all scans for nonexistent physiology. Being imperceptible is still nonexistent physiology. The issue here is that there's no evidence that Greeza personifies an abstract concept as the concept itself. He's an avatar for nonexistence, sure. But he is NOT nonexistence (as a concept) itself.

I literally gave you a scan that says he's the void itself and not just an embodiment/avatar of it. But aight

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I literally gave you a scan that says he's the void itself and not just an embodiment/avatar of it. But aight

"Greeza is a hole in space. Void itself." Without supporting contextual feats/statements, this just means he's a void. Again, that's textbook nonexistent physiology. The other statements literally say that he "embodies the concept of nothingness", not that he is the concept of nothingness itself.

I explained it like this on the Discord: Say the concept wasn't nonexistence, and was instead bananas. We replace all mentions of the concept of nonexistence with the concept of bananas; so Greeza is the embodiment of the concept of bananas. Him being nonexistent would just be a state of being, separate from whatever his embodiment is. You can still apply the statement that Greeza is the void itself in this instance and it would still be true because being a void =/= being the abstract concept of a void.

So all these statements about Greeza being a literal void are mutually exclusive from the statements about him being a conceptual embodiment; of which based on the statements alone give type 2, not type 1.

 

[WanderingGecko]

"Greeza is a hole in space. Void itself." Without supporting contextual feats/statements, this just means he's a void. Again, that's textbook nonexistent physiology. The other statements literally say that he "embodies the concept of nothingness", not that he is the concept of nothingness itself.

Already in the blog. Already explained the meaning of that in the discord.

I explained it like this on the Discord: Say the concept wasn't nonexistence, and was instead bananas. We replace all mentions of the concept of nonexistence with the concept of bananas; so Greeza is the embodiment of the concept of bananas. Him being nonexistent would just be a state of being, separate from whatever his embodiment is. You can still apply the statement that Greeza is the void itself in this instance and it would still be true because being a void =/= being the abstract concept of a void.

Greeza’s not avatar of “bananas”, he’s the “bananas” itself. Him being nonexistent is due to him being the concept of “bananas”. Doesn’t make any sense as in every other media it’s always the concept their talking about and not just some random void.

So all these statements about Greeza being a literal void are mutually exclusive from the statements about him being a conceptual embodiment; of which based on the statements alone give type 2, not type 1.

Not exclusive as it’s the main feat of him being the void and others are just supporting feats. Ok.

 

[Agnaa]

Looking at stuff in the blog.

1. Premise: That's ordinary NEP.
2. Invulnerability: That's ordinary NEP.
3. Conceptual Existence
   • A chair embodies the concept of chair-ness. You can create a nonexistent thing that embodies the concept of nothingness without it being the literal concept of nothingness itself coming to life.
   • I wouldn't translate this as "you are the embodiment of the 『void』", using clunkier wording than I ordinarily would to better get at the original meaning, it's more like "you're the existence they call nothing". And either way, this wouldn't lead to anything conceptual.
   • I can't see how that would lead to anything other than ordinary NEP.
4. Conceptual Abilities: Okay yeah, this fella can make this NEP being exist.
5. Ultraman Z and Geed
   • The subtitles say "he's trapped the monster between void and reality", since this was done by fusing with it, and given how Geed was a real thing and Greeza was a nonexistent thing, I think "trapped in the space between reality and the nothingness itself" is a complete misreading. It seems more like "this existent thing and nonexistent thing combined, making it unable to do anything", this would only be a usable ability against other nonexistent beings.
   • Destroying by slashing, if those are the actual characters involved and there's no extra context being glossed over, seems fine.

So yeah, ordinary Type 1 NEP, a character can make NEP beings exist, another character can fuse with NEP beings to temporarily immobilize them, and another character can slash NEP beings to death.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Will reply to that later.

What about the other parts? My revision isn’t mainly about Greeza afterall.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not interested in evaluating the other stuff.

 

[Vzearr]

Shinya Mizorogi Deflects a Bullet (Hypersonic+)​

This is wrong, you'd need to angsize the distance between him and the muzzle of the gun, calculate the distance he walks and add that to the angsized distance, then remove his arm length from that distance, then calculate the distance he moves (180 deg * arm and chest length), then plug that into the speed formula.

I'll look at the rest soon.

 

[WanderingGecko]

I'm dropping the Abstract Existence Type 1 for Greeza (practically downgrading him).

Conceptual Existence

• A chair embodies the concept of chair-ness. You can create a nonexistent thing that embodies the concept of nothingness without it being the literal concept of nothingness itself coming to life.
• I wouldn't translate this as "you are the embodiment of the 『void』", using clunkier wording than I ordinarily would to better get at the original meaning, it's more like "you're the existence they call nothing". And either way, this wouldn't lead to anything conceptual.
• I can't see how that would lead to anything other than ordinary NEP.

1. Conceptual Abilities: Okay yeah, this fella can make this NEP being exist.
2. Ultraman Z and Geed
   • The subtitles say "he's trapped the monster between void and reality", since this was done by fusing with it, and given how Geed was a real thing and Greeza was a nonexistent thing, I think "trapped in the space between reality and the nothingness itself" is a complete misreading. It seems more like "this existent thing and nonexistent thing combined, making it unable to do anything", this would only be a usable ability against other nonexistent beings.
   • Destroying by slashing, if those are the actual characters involved and there's no extra context being glossed over, seems fine.

So yeah, ordinary Type 1 NEP, a character can make NEP beings exist, another character can fuse with NEP beings to temporarily immobilize them, and another character can slash NEP beings to death.

Conceptual Existence
Just cause you wouldn't, it doesn't disprove that he's not an embodiment of the concept of nothingness. The words used literally mention the usage of concept there: 虚無の概念 | concept of emptiness. And I can't see how this is would lead to him not having Abstract Existence.

Conceptual Abilities
Yeah he added the concept of existence to Greeza who lacked it, though if there's a specific ability for that I'll take it.

Ultraman Z and Geed
Um yes? That's literally what I'm proposing for him to have? Yes those are actual characters involved. It's shown in episode 15 of Ultraman Z if you want to see the full context of it.

This is wrong, you'd need to angsize the distance between him and the muzzle of the gun, calculate the distance he walks and add that to the angsized distance, then remove his arm length from that distance, then calculate the distance he moves (180 deg * arm and chest length), then plug that into the speed formula.

I have revised the calculation, and what about the rest?

 

[Agnaa]

Conceptual Existence
Just cause you wouldn't, it doesn't disprove that he's not an embodiment of the concept of nothingness. The words used literally mention the usage of concept there: 虚無の概念 | concept of emptiness. And I can't see how this is would lead to him not having Abstract Existence.

Which scan are you talking about?

Conceptual Abilities
Yeah he added the concept of existence to Greeza who lacked it, though if there's a specific ability for that I'll take it.

Nothing conceptual about it as far as I can tell.

Ultraman Z and Geed
Um yes? That's literally what I'm proposing for him to have?

The thing you mentioned in your blog, "has the capability to trap Greeza in the space between reality and nothingness", sounds quite different from what I said

"this existent thing and nonexistent thing combined, making it unable to do anything", this would only be a usable ability against other nonexistent beings.

If you actually meant what I said, then you should reword it when applying it to profiles.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Which scan are you talking about?

The one where it implies Greeza's conceptual nature.

Nothing conceptual about it as far as I can tell.

I'll concede on this since X would still be haxed, what would that give X then?

The thing you mentioned in your blog, "has the capability to trap Greeza in the space between reality and nothingness", sounds quite different from what I said

Greeza's the nonexistent being that he has the capability of trapping no? It's literally what I meant.

If you actually meant what I said, then you should reword it when applying it to profiles.

Sure.

 

[Agnaa]

The one where it implies Greeza's conceptual nature.

Do you mean this one?

Greeza is the literal concept of nothingness coming to live and the mastermind behind the Ultra Flare incident.

Because if so, your response of "they actually use the word 'concept' there!" does nothing to address my first post about it.

I'll concede on this since X would still be haxed, what would that give X then?

We don't have an ability for that. Either just write the explanation in the P&A, (i.e. "Can Make Nonexistent Beings Real"), or put it under Reality Warping and write that as the justification.

In matches, it will let the user bypass NEP after spending time to use that ability.

Greeza's the nonexistent being that he has the capability of trapping no? It's literally what I meant.

Greeza's not being trapped in a space, as that implies a physical location he's being BFR'd to, and it implies that the ability runs independent of Greeza's NEP. Neither of which is true.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Because if so, your response of "they actually use the word 'concept' there!" does nothing to address my first post about it.

It frankly does, and there's nothing disproving it.

We don't have an ability for that. Either just write the explanation in the P&A, (i.e. "Can Make Nonexistent Beings Real"), or put it under Reality Warping and write that as the justification.

Already have that as that's the prior rating to it.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Bump.

I have revised the GBE for the Land of Light as it had wanked values before.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Bump.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Bump.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree here

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Oh wait, two staffs has already agreed, I think we can applying this now since Ultra series isn't that controversial

 

[WanderingGecko]

Oh wait, two staffs has already agreed, I think we can applying this now since Ultra series isn't that controversial

What about the calculations? I mean no staff has said anything about them.

Also where did you go bro in the Toku discord

 

[Agnaa]

Oh wait, two staffs has already agreed, I think we can applying this now since Ultra series isn't that controversial

No. Ovens and I actually disagreed with decent parts of this thread. While Vzearr disagreed with one of the calcs.

@WanderingGecko I've noticed that you've edited agreements into the OP, but not disagreements such as mine, Ovens', and Vzearr's, even though those came before some of the agreements. Please rectify that immediately.

 

[WanderingGecko]

@WanderingGecko I've noticed that you've edited agreements into the OP, but not disagreements such as mine, Ovens', and Vzearr's, even though those came before some of the agreements. Please rectify that immediately.

Yea will change some of those as I forgot.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Bump.

Praying to god someone actually comes and evaluates this.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Agnaa and I have gave our evaluations. You're free to call more staff if you want.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Agnaa and I have gave our evaluations. You're free to call more staff if you want.

You, DDM and Agnaa have evaluated practically everything except the calculations, but most CGM haven’t replied to my messages. Could you by any chance help out and ask a CGM that you know to help evaluate these stuff?

 

[SeijiSetto]

i left comments on blog 1 (please make separate blogs for each calc, i personally think it's easier) - half of them i didn't evaluate because you didn't actually link the feat happening.
i'll get to blog 2 later, probably sometime tomorrow