Übel vs Satoru Gojo (15-8-0)

[Chariot190]

I fear Six Eyes won't tell Gojo that Ubel is dumb af

Haven't read through any of these pages but this should be a stomp, no?

Ubel's thing is basically Dura Negation Telekinesis. Her thought of cutting the opponent spawns on them instantaneously. It doesn't have to travel to Gojo, it just happens to him via Subjective Reality.

She still has to swing her axe but kinda. The subjective reality is believeing she would connect and cut him, not that her attack "teleports". She wouldn't even know there's something in the way for her to need to teleport her attack, to begin with.

Because it doesn't travel in the first place, it doesn't even interact with Infinity. Gojo just gets sliced in half because that's what her vision would be.

If that's her first move, Gojo doesn't really have anything to match an instantaneous win-condition.

He could literally just dodge or kill her first, he 100% could, I'm just not sure he would.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Comedian is a completly different power. It's a passive technique which works without contact

if ubel’s attack even connects or not is based on her own subjective reality, so not really relevant.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah? It's his opponent after all. He never fought a girl before but he didn't care to threat a grammer when a kid, kill merciless a bunch of normal humans or massacre the higher ups that lack any kind of power.

He is pretty "traumatised" since his fight against, who he couldn't read a single trace. Even if does not start for the kill, I don't think he would let Ubel get close

Pretty sure context is key for all those. Killing corrupt evil higher ups, being visibly shocked when confronted with normal dudes, and a mere threat, aren't him going dick out on sight.

Why wouldn't he? He's at multiple points let people attack him because he believed infinity would just stop it.

And I really still disagree with the idea of Ubel bypassing Gojo's Infinity

Well it ain't like Gojo has resistance to bootleg reality warping that's limited (but less so than normal because she dumb as shit which somehow works as a buff).
And it isn't actual infinite distance.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

if ubel’s attack even connects or not is based on her own subjective reality, so not really relevant.

Shit still needs to travel. You can even barely dodge it and survive

The slash stilll needs to travel
Infinite is a natural thing that is everywhere, and Gojo can use it to slow down anything
Her technique allows her to ignore any dura, not any distance or wathever

 

[Phoenks]

She still has to swing her axe but kinda. The subjective reality is believeing she would connect and cut him, not that her attack "teleports". She wouldn't even know there's something in the way for her to need to teleport her attack, to begin with.

I wasn't aware since on the page it just looked like an instant spawn-on cut thing.

But, yeah, either way subjective reality just means she ignores Infinity.

If she thinks she can cut something, she can do it. So, that means unless she knows about Infinity, it will likely act as if it isn't even there. That's what I'd assume, anyway.

He could literally just dodge or kill her first, he 100% could, I'm just not sure he would.

Unlikely he could or would dodge it.

Gojo doesn't even tend to dodge things in most fights because of his Infinity in the first place. He has no reason to expect that this random girl's slash is gonna cut him somehow.

Also, I don't know how he'd kill her first. He usually starts with Blue or Red. Both of those can be cut apart by Ubel's thing from the looks of it.

Hollow Purple probably also gets cut apart or dodged.

And that only leaves his Domain Expansion, which of course would be a win-condition. If you believe in that happening before he gets split open, it isn't a stomp, I guess.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Pretty sure context is key for all those. Killing corrupt evil higher ups, being visibly shocked when confronted with normal dudes, and a mere threat, aren't him going dick out on sight.

I'm saying that he does not care to go violent just because it's a little girl
He can just break some bones of her or wathever, or crush her on the ground like against Sukuna

Why wouldn't he? He's at multiple points let people attack him because he believed infinity would just stop it.

If we don't assume that CE = Mana, it means that Gojo can't read any technique of her
If he can't predict the opponent, he won't allow the opponent to get close
The same reason of why he tried his best to avoid contact with Toji even when he wasn't aware of a cursed tool capable to bypass his Infinity

 

[Arkenis]

Haven't read through any of these pages but this should be a stomp, no?

Ubel's thing is basically Dura Negation Telekinesis. Her thought of cutting the opponent spawns on them instantaneously. It doesn't have to travel to Gojo, it just happens to him via Subjective Reality.

Because it doesn't travel in the first place, it doesn't even interact with Infinity. Gojo just gets sliced in half because that's what her vision would be.

If that's her first move, Gojo doesn't really have anything to match an instantaneous win-condition.

Why do I see panels of her swinging her spear when she does it then?

 

[Arkenis]

That's where sorganeil comes in. I don't know why we arr talking about it when its just stopping one from manipulating their internal energy but I'm not willing to argue if they can or can't be equalized

Does she do sorganeil?

 

[Chariot190]

Ubel's gotten way stronger/potent (She doesn't actually even need her axe she's able to use her barehands), it's got range now.



Not to mention she can outright reject physical magic and twist or ignore them. Rejecting or twisting the rules of infinity is something she's fully capable of, her ability basically has built in powernull.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm on chapter 106. Macht just got defeated. I ain't gonna read the above scans

 

[Shmooply]

Speaking of Macht anyone making a profile for Solitär

 

[Arkenis]

Also, I don't know how he'd kill her first. He usually starts with Blue or Red. Both of those can be cut apart by Ubel's thing from the looks of it.

Blue isn't easily seen or reacted to. And Blue can be used to slam her to the ground or simply throw her.

 

[Chariot190]

Speaking of Macht anyone making a profile for Solitär

I wanna but if someone else wants to I'm not gonna complain. It'll be awhile if I do it anyway even if the end result is decent.

 

[Phoenks]

Blue isn't easily seen or reacted to. And Blue can be used to slam her to the ground or simply throw her.

Tf you mean they aren't easily seen or reacted to??? Practically everyone in the series they were used against has reacted to them in some way.

And, how is it going to do that if she just cuts them apart?

 

[Arkenis]

Tf you mean they aren't easily seen or reacted to??? Practically everyone in the series they were used against has reacted to them in some way.

And, how is it going to do that if she just cuts them apart?

You're wrong, Oh look still wrong. So yeah no, with Class M tele Gojo is killing instantly from just slamming her across some buildings since her durability only protects her against magical attacks not physical ones.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually this reminds me I bought the frieren databook.


Two of these lines is interesting, one says she outright nullified stuff ("Even strong defensive magic was nullified in an instant just by her image of "being able to cut"), another says she can invalidate even absolute laws/logic ("A person of intuition who acts according to her own senses. She can overturn even absolute logic if it exists").

Scan there, dudes can check it for themselves. (Also goes into depth how she wants to fight to the death and doesn't care at all about murdering dudes so)....

 

[Wankbreaker]

Actually this reminds me I bought the frieren databook.


Two of these lines is interesting, one says she outright nullified stuff ("Even strong defensive magic was nullified in an instant just by her image of "being able to cut"), another says she can invalidate even absolute laws/logic ("A person of intuition who acts according to her own senses. She can overturn even absolute logic if it exists").

Scan there, dudes can check it for themselves. (Also goes into depth how she wants to fight to the death and doesn't care at all about murdering dudes so)....

yep, this seems good enough.

How many votes are there?

 

[Shmooply]

Actually this reminds me I bought the frieren databook.

can you pm me any scans related to solitar in case i ever try making a profile for her

Now that there's better arguments, I'll vote for Ubel.

 

[Chariot190]

can you pm me any scans related to solitar in case i ever try making a profile for her

Now that there's better arguments, I'll vote for Ubel.

Ogey
I was collecting some shit for her anyway for my CRT (Not really for her, but she has decent info analysis which is relevant to what I was focusing on).

 

[Spinoirr]

Actually this reminds me I bought the frieren databook.


Two of these lines is interesting, one says she outright nullified stuff ("Even strong defensive magic was nullified in an instant just by her image of "being able to cut"), another says she can invalidate even absolute laws/logic ("A person of intuition who acts according to her own senses. She can overturn even absolute logic if it exists").

Scan there, dudes can check it for themselves. (Also goes into depth how she wants to fight to the death and doesn't care at all about murdering dudes so)....

That stuff should be on her profile too bc that seems like power Nullification and possibly Law Manipulation

 

[Chariot190]

That stuff should be on her profile too bc that seems like power Nullification and possibly Law Manipulation

Mayhaps, probably. I didn't do her profile nor know she had one till today. I was just working on Frieren because she's missing a lot of random slop.

Someone can steal it and make a CRT idc, I'll even toss higher quality scan if they want it.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Gojo can counter power nullification by enhancing the output of Limitless. He instinctively increases its strength whenever he senses something might penetrate its defenses.

 

[Chariot190]

Gojo can counter power nullification by enhancing the output of Limitless. He instinctively increases its strength whenever he senses something might penetrate its defenses.

Why would that stop power null. It doesn't matter how strong it is if it's being nullified as a whole. Why would it matter if it's at like 10 or 100, it'll still be 0 when she swings.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Gojo can counter power nullification by enhancing the output of Limitless. He instinctively increases its strength whenever he senses something might penetrate its defenses.

That will…..

not help him against subjective reality warping

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Why would that stop power null. It doesn't matter how strong it is if it's being nullified as a whole. Why would it matter if it's at like 10 or 100, it'll still be 0 when she swings.

It just does lol

Power Nullification (Sukuna can use
Domain Amplifcation in order to neutralize
Cursed Techniques.[15] Even from the likes
of Gojo's Infinity, which was able to
overpower the combined Domain
Amplifications of both Jogo and Hanami)

 

[Catbowtie]

Which Gojo is this?

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

That will…..

not help him against subjective reality warping

He can just dodge it. Afaik, the attack still needs to travel.

 

[Chariot190]

It just does lol

Power Nullification (Sukuna can use
Domain Amplifcation in order to neutralize
Cursed Techniques.[15] Even from the likes
of Gojo's Infinity, which was able to
overpower the combined Domain
Amplifications of both Jogo and Hanami)

Mechanics matter, she does it via bootleg reality warping.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Mechanics matter, she does it via bootleg reality warping.

It's still power nullification

 

[Chariot190]

He can just dodge it. Afaik, the attack still needs to travel.

I literally already posted a scan, current Ubel has some wacky range on it, a mere gesture instantly shreds a tower (That she was in mind you, idk how the hell it shredded below and above her but it did).

 

[Chariot190]

It's still power nullification

Mechanics matter. That's why we soemtimes have stuff like "unconventional resistances to-", what he would need, is basically res to reality warping or SR to resist her power null because that's how she does it.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Ubel FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Idk the exact count, but it was like 5-0 on page 1, and at least 4 have voted for Ubel since so it's like 9-0 (Me, Bern, Wank, that other dude).

I think Gojo has at least 4 votes though? Either way we're in grace.

 

[AThe1412]

If we don't assume that CE = Mana, it means that Gojo can't read any technique of her
If he can't predict the opponent, he won't allow the opponent to get close
The same reason of why he tried his best to avoid contact with Toji even when he wasn't aware of a cursed tool capable to bypass his Infinity

Isn't CE something that even normal people have just in low amounts because it comes from negative emotions?

 

[ProbNotAFelon]

Can't Gojo use RCT to heal from the first attack then pull out Unlimited Void?

 

[AThe1412]

Can't Gojo use RCT to heal from the first attack then pull out Unlimited Void?

Not if Ubel Kit-Kats him like Sukuna did (she has already done that and worse to other people).

 

[Chariot190]

Can't Gojo use RCT to heal from the first attack then pull out Unlimited Void?

Ubel's attacks consistently just like, completely slice dudes in half. Very, very, rarely does it not. The only time it failed, was in a exam against someone she didn't want dead yet because she was trying to steal his magic (She stole his magic). Every other time she's used it offensively, they've been cut completely in half or lil bloody chunks.

 

[Moritzva]

The FRA train I saw on the first thread was so bad I am returning to the wiki for the first time in a year to say something about it.

Gojo wins.

Ubel notoriously has issues with range on her main slashing abilities. Even at her absolute best, she is slashing through a tower while inside of it, which at an estimate of eight residential stories of height is still less than half of the range she needs to hit Gojo from the start. Her null is also notoriously unreliable—"see the entire opponent" is a widely inconsistent criteria that she frequently fails even when she really, very much should be able to. It is an option, but it is a highly unreliable one that she is not pulling off easily.

The problem with JJK vs. Frieren matches is that you are comparing hydrogen bombs to coughing babies. Frieren characters tend to be relatively low-mobility in combat, flying around a bit maybe, while their mages rely greatly on defensive spells to survive attacks. In Jujutsu Kaisen, all their "mages" also happen to be physical powerhouses that reinforce already significant durability with even more of that. Not only is Gojo the peak of that, but he is massively more mobile, traversing the entire city in his fight with Sukuna in ways no Frieren fight has ever really reached.

Gojo has so many options. Ranged nukes, Domain Expansion, Hollow Purple, hell he could even just reinforce himself with magic to comfortably survive her hits and just beat her to death (which he probably wouldn't even bother with if Ubel evidently shows she has absolutely nothing to fight him with at a range).

The best you can argue is that Ubel can perfectly cut him to pieces (inconsistent, people have survived Ubel's slashes without instantly dying, and Gojo is significantly more durable than an average mage) or null him (very inconsistent, it's standards are unclear and poorly defined). The former of which she can't even do without crossing the distance.

By comparison, Gojo can just...do basically anything, and Ubel gets wiped. Even if you assume Ubel can slash through his attacks, which she has shown no capacity to do and is well beyond any of her feats, they will still obliterate the environment and make it much harder for Ubel to cross the distance).

I vote for Gojo. Don't expect me to respond here again. Merry late Christmas, you filthy animals, and happy new year. Goodbye.

 

[Tago238]

Ubel’s thing isn’t insta kill even if she gets close so she can get past infinity but RCT is keeping him basically safe to obliterate her if he hasn’t already. Voting Gojo.

 

[Moritzva]

Actually, I will say one more thing. A lot of these votes, especially the early ones, are FRAs based on shitty memes, and a lot of these arguments are horribly flawed and lacking in addressing the many elephants in the room.

A lot of these votes shouldn't be counted and people should use more discretion to not tally meme votes on debates like this. Just because JJK's ending sucked ass doesn't mean Gojo loses to someone with less range, mobility, defensive options, and wincons than him. Come on now.