TWD sad downgrade and reworks

[Renitr]

Press F to Wall Level The Walking Dead

Let's take it in order

Main Calculations
It all started with them

Daryl tackles Beta

vsbattles.fandom.com

Rick Grimes Survives Bridge Exploding

vsbattles.fandom.com

1)Calculation of Beta fall is most likely not correct. Because in this video Starts 5:05 (It said that most likely Beta fell from a height of 3 floors-street level+. Let's admit that for the current situation in TWD, this will be the right result)


2)Rick bridge explosion feat was recalculated (outlier for TWD)

Rick survives a bridge explosion recalculation

vsbattles.fandom.com

It turns out that we lose two main TWD feats thanks to which the high tier characters were scaled to Wall Level.

3)As Mr. Bambu said, this feat is wrong

Glenn survives a grenade explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

4)This feat should be recognized as outlier
(It's better this way)

Tyreese survives a tank round

vsbattles.fandom.com

And so we lost everything that could point to Wall Level TWD.

Suggestions
Carl as the weakest character, should stay at street level

Mid Tiers like Pre Time-Skip Michonne, Glenn, Abraham, Jesus should be upgrade to Street Level+ because all of them can:
traded, withstand blows from high tiers and slightly harm high tiers. But they are still inferior to them in the scaling chain and in based on shown feats. I think it would be crazy and stupid to downgrade high tiers of TWD to Street Level (without +) based on the fact that the mid tiers can harm them. If you look at profiles of Negan, the Governor, and Beta, you can find street level+ feats.

High Tiers like Shane, Governor, Merle, Pre Time Skip Daryl, Pre CRM Rick, Negan should be downgrade to Street Level+ possibly higher. Because, as mentioned, they are superior to mid tiers in scaling chain and based on shown feats (Merle superior to Glenn, Rick likely superior to Glenn. It was shown in the series)

Post Time-Skip
1)Daryl has definitely become stronger after the timeskip after season 8 (Just look at his fights. Can slightly fight back to Beta who was is much stronger and bigger than him in their fight. He can stand up against Carver (Who was Afghanistan veteran and former mercenary)

To understand how strong Carver is, just watch his fight against Negan, Maggie and Elijah


Can kill reaper in a fight


Was stated that in Reapers group "Every single person is a trained killer since before the apocalypse.",

Was able to defeat 3 mans in a weakened state


He can resist and struggle against type of variant Walker who can tear off jaw
https://imgur.com/a/FEU3qxM

https://imgur.com/a/GFOxZTn

He had not shown such a level before Time- Skip. I think we can accept the fact that Daryl has become stronger after Time-skip.
That's why I suggest creating a new key in Daryl's profile: Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip. Post-Timeskip Daryl should be street level+, possibly much higher because he surpasses his previous version. Beta and Codron should be also street level+, possibly much higher because they can fight, harm and dominate against Post Timeskip Daryl.

2)Rick has definitely become stronger after CRM training. CRM it's a military organization. In The Ones Who Live Rick joins the ranks of soldiers and spends over a year there.
https://youtu.be/VdXR4NzIry8?si=z-aZ10WS321s_DIH

It is logical to assume that he has become stronger

(Just look at his fights). He can kill trained Crm soldier who was bigger than him
https://youtu.be/pUf3mxxhNxg?si=lVsq8jw6az_Swdhl

Can domimate against Pearl Thorne in combat (Despite the fact that there was poisonous gas in the air and he did not have a gas mask unlike Pearl)
https://youtu.be/9TYTmpjl_2I?si=qOe_rV-limPyziTJ

Can resist against group of walkers which surrounded him
0:36
https://youtu.be/9TYTmpjl_2I?si=YfuRb0ZTSyDk59_X

And

0:36
https://youtu.be/vfTOC8AUwPM?si=POu4kJyyr7vX09Yx

He covered himself with three walkers and survive after grenade explosion which probably pulverizate several walkers
0:11
https://youtu.be/mc4xKRMizcE?si=AhL4zPRf8UopSk-k

With his prosthetic arm, he can break the stones on head of stone walker
1:08
https://youtu.be/Wi9iKD4jGok?si=i2vqydJ7BfTWwre9

I think we can accept the fact that Rick became stronger after CRM training. And in Rick profile should be addet a new key: Pre CRM training and Post CRM training. Post CRM Rick should be street level+, possibly much higher because he surpasses his previous version.

3)We don't know how much stronger Michonne became after Time Skip. But
she can harm Pearl Thorne, who can harm Post CRM training Rick.
0:30
https://youtu.be/vfTOC8AUwPM?si=fp16bsh1wKTxq0Y5

And

https://youtu.be/dSVt3x27VQw?si=hZ1CD-aZesixt598

We also need to add a new key to Michonne's profile: Pre-Timeskip and Post-Timeskip. Her Post-Timeskip version should be street level+, possibly much higher

Also Carl, Mid Tiers, High Tiers should have 9-B with various weapons. Because they can kill, very much damage or kill several walkers at once by using weapons

Overall Street Level+ from verse scaled from
Negan Crushed Simon's neck, which would be at this level,

And Beta falling in elevator shaft.

Both high end of street level. I will also search for and add various street level+ feats.

High tiers are able to survive after explosions, falling from great heights without injures and can harm each other.
I think based on feats in the high tiers profiles street level+ should be OK.

Mid Tiers like Abraham, Jesus, Pre-Timeskip Michonne, Glenn should have Peak Human Physical Characteristics with superhuman durability (Abraham tanked Negan lucille strike, Glenn and Michonne withstand blows from Merle and Governor, Jesus tanked blows from Daryl and Morgan who should be comparable to Rick)

High Tiers: Pre/Post CRM Rick, Pre/Post Timeskip Daryl, Post-Timskip Michonne, Negan, Beta, Governor, Merle, Shane, Codron should have Superhuman Physical Characteristics (scales to high end of street level and superior to Mid Tiers)

Yes, I know that it will be necessary to change the scaling chain, but that's later

Final Outcome
Carl-Street Level, Wall Level with various weapons
Abraham, Glenn, Pre TS Michonne, Jesus-Street Level+
Shane, Merle, Pre Crm Rick, Pre TS Daryl, Governor, Negan-Street Level+, possibly higher
Post TS Daryl, Post TS Michonne, Post Crm Rick, Codron, Beta-Street Level+, possibly much higher

This is an option for the current TWD should seems fine. I ask you to look at all feats in the profiles of TWD characters and and the videos in this thread that you haven't seen.


(Problematic Negan)
According to the current feats. Negan didn't get stronger after Time-Skip. Dude spent many years in a cage. I think the creators of s9-s11 were trying to hint to us that Negan now is not in his prime. Yes, he withstood blows from Post TS Daryl, Carver and Beta. But he was not fighting back. He could only do something with a weapon. Again, we are waiting for the release of the future projects of TWD. To see something worthy

 

[Renitr]

Also Pre Time Skip Daryl can snapped arm of guy (who overpowered Abraham)
0:32


And Post-Timeskip Daryl can broke neck of man
1:19


Maybe too street level+

(I just realized that I made a mistake in the name Codron several times. I only fixed it)
I can't know exactly how power level works in street level. But if the street level character can harm street level+ character. then: mid tiers street level, high tiers street level+, post ts Daryl, Michonne, Beta, Codron, post crm Rick street level+, possibly higher

 

[Renitr]

Also Pre TOWL Michonne can knock out Pre CRM Rick with a single punch
4:16

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose I'll give my opinions.

I want to preface this by saying that I don't want to coerce people simply because I have said "this is wrong". I had intended to put together a thread adequately explaining the much more consistent trends of the strength and abilities of the characters in the Walking Dead. This is a show, after all, where character's lives are at risk practically constantly. We can glean consistency well below the calculated maximum! And, then, of course comes the mitigating context of many, many, many of the feats so far suggested for this verse. It was my intent to show this to give a more whole look at it, rather than whatever we've been doing now for months. This thread doesn't do all of that, and perhaps it will still be a good idea to do it, but if I don't, it saves me hundreds of hours in rewatching the show start to finish to document every time someone is threatened by something objectively and obviously well below what is given as the verse's ratings here, on site, currently. I will take that as a blessing if my bitching about the subject has mitigated my need to be serious about the subject.

Now then.

Of the feats in the OP, the only one that really stands out as potentially acceptable is Beta's fall. Beta is the martial apex of the verse- there is no character capable of really physically overpowering him, even though these characters are all likely around peak human themselves. He can be pushed and cut, but not easily brought down- pushing is LS and cutting is piercing strength, hence explainable. Therefore, his fall may not be an outlier, even though it did do enough to make Daryl believe he was dead- I would personally agree with "At least 9-C, likely 9-B" for Beta scaling to his fall.

Rick's explosion comes with a few problems. First, there's a weird frame used for the radius of the blast: we can see the blast in the same frame as walkers, which can be used to scale. This gives us a radius of about 15.56 meters (a small difference but one I wanted to mention because the choice there has always been weird). The second minor gripe I have with the exact nature of the calc is that we can indeed see that Rick is further away from the blast than suggested, simply because the explosives aren't in the middle of the bridge, but rather a meter or two on the farther side- the bridge has a pair of those wooden supports on either side, with some distance in the middle between their bases. The image there shows the explosives are at the end of the other's side's supports, not in the center. The third minor nitpick with the original calculation is that Rick himself is blown backwards by the shockwave before the explosion hits- 2:28 of the video in the calc shows this for only a split second. Rick doesn't stay where he was because he gets knocked the hell down (without even knowing how far the initial shockwave moved him, we know this would change his surface area considerably). Now then:

I think it is a major outlier, yeah. The other 9-B feats by anyone less than Beta are self evidently wrong. Tyrese and Glenn both have cover from their respective explosions, Tyrese even having like a foot of concrete (the bridge that was destroyed) between himself and the blast. The recalc of the bridge is also just straight up wrong, you can see in the initial explosion that the concrete isn't destroyed: it was dilapidated already (hence its original collapse) so further collapse without that support tracks, explosion or not.

I don't agree Walkers have 9-B durability. They're just Immortal. They require very specific strikes to harm them. They need something that pierces the skull and the brain. Now, that's not to say that some of the cast don't have 9-B weapons: Sasha's giant sniper rifle probably breaches that tier, I'd bet we can find the type of gun and scale it appropriately. And some cast members do use other explosives, like Abraham instant-killing the Saviors with a rocket launcher. But most cast members aren't 9-B. I think the absolute peak of the verse might manage a "possibly": this would be peak Negan (before the fall of the Saviors), peak Rick, peak Daryl. Negan is definitely weaker now compared to when the Saviors were running the game. He's older, he's more affected by attacks and more easily winded.

 

[Renitr]

@Mr. Bambu In general, is it possible to downgrade the verse to street level+ or at least street level for now?

 

[Renitr]

I think it can be done like this:
Overall verse-Street Level+ for now (based on Negan and Daryl can broke bones,
traded blows with humans who can survive big falls and explosions,
and Beta fall is high end of street level or low end of wall level)
Beta as the strongest character should be at least street level+, possibly wall level

 

[Renitr]

As time passed, I thought about it and came to the conclusion that the current TWD does not really correspond to the s 9-B tier. Considering that all the 9-B feats shown are not particularly correct and strange
Walkers can also be downgraded to street level+. And the weapons will give a tier to characters-higher with weapons

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose I'll give my opinions.

I want to preface this by saying that I don't want to coerce people simply because I have said "this is wrong". I had intended to put together a thread adequately explaining the much more consistent trends of the strength and abilities of the characters in the Walking Dead. This is a show, after all, where character's lives are at risk practically constantly. We can glean consistency well below the calculated maximum! And, then, of course comes the mitigating context of many, many, many of the feats so far suggested for this verse. It was my intent to show this to give a more whole look at it, rather than whatever we've been doing now for months. This thread doesn't do all of that, and perhaps it will still be a good idea to do it, but if I don't, it saves me hundreds of hours in rewatching the show start to finish to document every time someone is threatened by something objectively and obviously well below what is given as the verse's ratings here, on site, currently. I will take that as a blessing if my bitching about the subject has mitigated my need to be serious about the subject.

Now then.

Of the feats in the OP, the only one that really stands out as potentially acceptable is Beta's fall. Beta is the martial apex of the verse- there is no character capable of really physically overpowering him, even though these characters are all likely around peak human themselves. He can be pushed and cut, but not easily brought down- pushing is LS and cutting is piercing strength, hence explainable. Therefore, his fall may not be an outlier, even though it did do enough to make Daryl believe he was dead- I would personally agree with "At least 9-C, likely 9-B" for Beta scaling to his fall.

Rick's explosion comes with a few problems. First, there's a weird frame used for the radius of the blast: we can see the blast in the same frame as walkers, which can be used to scale. This gives us a radius of about 15.56 meters (a small difference but one I wanted to mention because the choice there has always been weird). The second minor gripe I have with the exact nature of the calc is that we can indeed see that Rick is further away from the blast than suggested, simply because the explosives aren't in the middle of the bridge, but rather a meter or two on the farther side- the bridge has a pair of those wooden supports on either side, with some distance in the middle between their bases. The image there shows the explosives are at the end of the other's side's supports, not in the center. The third minor nitpick with the original calculation is that Rick himself is blown backwards by the shockwave before the explosion hits- 2:28 of the video in the calc shows this for only a split second. Rick doesn't stay where he was because he gets knocked the hell down (without even knowing how far the initial shockwave moved him, we know this would change his surface area considerably). Now then:

I think it is a major outlier, yeah. The other 9-B feats by anyone less than Beta are self evidently wrong. Tyrese and Glenn both have cover from their respective explosions, Tyrese even having like a foot of concrete (the bridge that was destroyed) between himself and the blast. The recalc of the bridge is also just straight up wrong, you can see in the initial explosion that the concrete isn't destroyed: it was dilapidated already (hence its original collapse) so further collapse without that support tracks, explosion or not.

I don't agree Walkers have 9-B durability. They're just Immortal. They require very specific strikes to harm them. They need something that pierces the skull and the brain. Now, that's not to say that some of the cast don't have 9-B weapons: Sasha's giant sniper rifle probably breaches that tier, I'd bet we can find the type of gun and scale it appropriately. And some cast members do use other explosives, like Abraham instant-killing the Saviors with a rocket launcher. But most cast members aren't 9-B. I think the absolute peak of the verse might manage a "possibly": this would be peak Negan (before the fall of the Saviors), peak Rick, peak Daryl. Negan is definitely weaker now compared to when the Saviors were running the game. He's older, he's more affected by attacks and more easily winded.

I agree with this.

 

[Renitr]

I agree with this.

@Mr. Bambu sorry, maybe I just don't understand. Do you agree with my suggestions for the current TWD for now?
You just expressed your opinion about the current feats and power level of TWD.
But didn't tell what do you think about my proposals.
Carl-Street Level, higher with weapons
Mid Tiers-Pre TOWL Michonne, Paul Rovia, Abraham, Glenn, Dwight-Street Level+, higher with weapons
High Tiers-Pre CRM Rick, Pre Timeskip Daryl, Merle, Governor, Shane, Negan-Street Level+, possibly higher, higher with weapons
God Tiers-Post TOWL Michonne, Post CRM Rick, Post Timeskip Daryl, Codron-Street Level+, possibly much higher, higher with weapons
Beta-At least Street Level+, possibly Wall Level

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Mr. Bambu sorry, maybe I just don't understand. Do you agree with my suggestions for the current TWD for now?
You just expressed your opinion about the current feats and power level of TWD.
But didn't tell what do you think about my proposals.
Carl-Street Level, higher with weapons
Mid Tiers-Pre TOWL Michonne, Paul Rovia, Abraham, Glenn, Dwight-Street Level+, higher with weapons
High Tiers-Pre CRM Rick, Pre Timeskip Daryl, Merle, Governor, Shane, Negan-Street Level+, possibly higher, higher with weapons
God Tiers-Post TOWL Michonne, Post CRM Rick, Post Timeskip Daryl, Codron-Street Level+, possibly much higher, higher with weapons
Beta-At least Street Level+, possibly Wall Level

Aside from minor wording gripes, yes, I agree with this.

I'd change God tiers from "possibly much higher" to "likely higher", and as mentioned, I think putting Beta at "likely Wall level" is fine.

Street level+ is linked to breaking bones (like Negan collapsing that guy's neck, can't recall his name, or other people snapping necks), yeah?

 

[Renitr]

Aside from minor wording gripes, yes, I agree with this.

I'd change God tiers from "possibly much higher" to "likely higher", and as mentioned, I think putting Beta at "likely Wall level" is fine.

Street level+ is linked to breaking bones (like Negan collapsing that guy's neck, can't recall his name, or other people snapping necks), yeah?

Yes Negan crush Simon throat


And Daryl crush neck of men
1:19

 

[Renitr]

Yes Negan crush Simon throat


And Daryl crush neck of men
1:19

Daryl was in a weakened state in this scene because he had been imprisoned on the ship for several days without food and was being beaten

And Pre Timeskip Daryl can break guy bone
0:34

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, I'm aware they can do it, I was just asking if that was the basis of your 9-C+ scaling, since the high end of bone breaking per our common feats page lands at such.

 

[Renitr]

Yeah, I'm aware they can do it, I was just asking if that was the basis of your 9-C+ scaling, since the high end of bone breaking per our common feats page lands at such.

I'm sure I can find more street levels+ feats if I look at the profiles of the characters or find some moments in series

 

[Renitr]

@Mr. Bambu

@DarkDragonMedeus Since you answered in this thread, do you agree with Mr. Bambu?
As this thread haven't closed. I would like to clarify a few points.
1. Walkers also need to be downgrade and rework, but I'll work with that later. (Because I little tired)
2. I will have to delete current scaling chain for a while because it is outdated and needs to be changed, but I will work with this later
3. I'm thinking of distributing the characters by power level like this: (with explanations of their power)
Low Tier: Carl
Mid Tier: Pre (The Ones Who Live) Michonne, Dwight, Glenn, Jesus, Abraham
High Tier: Shane, Governor, Merle, Pre CRM Rick, Pre Timeskip Daryl, Negan
God Tier: Post Timeskip Daryl, Post TOWL Michonne, Post CRM Rick, Codron, Beta
4. Do you agree that characters like Michonne, Daryl, Rick need to add a new keys like: Pre/Post Timeskip, Pre (The Ones Who Live)/Post TOWL, Pre/Post CRM Rick?
5. Since this thread will significantly affect to TWD verse and I will have to edit a lot of things, then I need your final agreement with my suggestions (and yours too)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I guess I'll ping DDM for you?

@DarkDragonMedeus

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mentioned when asked on my wall, I agree with the downgrades.