Trigun CRT #3: Plants - powers and abilities additions

[LordGinSama]

So it came to my realization that I forgot something important when it comes to the powers and abilities that Plants do on a regular basis. Today I'll be going over two additions for Plants, and luckily I was reminded of the existence of Trigun: Multiple Bullets. Mutiple Bullets is the official anthology of the Trigun series, which was published by Dark Horse and the Creator, Mutiple Bullets is a series of official spin offs that are canon to the story of the manga.


The majority of the stories are just cutesy side stories but the main one for today is Trigun: The Lost Plant, and it takes place two years after Knives vs Humanity. A Plant was found near the wreckage of the area where Knoves and Vash fought, and in this story we're basically told what we knew about plants already and them some more additional information that was left vague in the manga.



Plants produce and create matter, being able to create life forms, which yeah we knew already but what we didn't know is what happens next. But Plants also manipulate matter on a plank level, and they direct manipulate "uncertainty" what does Uncertainty mean? Well going by the RAW's of the chapter, and having my friend off site translate it and using online translators this is what I got.


"The principle of power of a plant called "gate" is "production of all things by causal operation" to those curious the raws are as the following

『門(ゲート)』と呼ばれるプラントの力の原理は、『因果律操作による万物の生産』というもの。

So along with what's already in the current Trigun profiles Plant's would get Plank level matter manipulation, Spatial Manipulation and Causality Manipulation which would explain a lot of the crazy shit Knives is able to pull off seemingly at random. So while it's a somewhat minor change I'd like to hear more input here, especially from staff

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Ah yea i remember this. There was a bunch of crazy ***** in regard to how a plant works in Nightow's old blog, or any other platform he used few years ago which are all now defunct. Honestly if we're going solely with the thing in Lost Plant, the tidbit about manipulating uncertainty on planck scale, whatever the **** that means, sounds a bit more like probability thing to me. Though there was an old statement about the plant's power having something to do with causality so i guess it's a bit of both?

 

[Antvasima]

Are there some staff members that you would suggest that I should notify about this thread?

 

[LordGinSama]

Are there some staff members that you would suggest that I should notify about this thread?

Basically anyone familiar with translations and anyone good with abilities like causality.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Speaking of a Plant's power, you might want to add about how a Plant doesn't have an endless reserve for it and they could eventually run out of gas if they keep abusing their power extensively. It's something worth considering i think.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You could try asking Shiro in case he's free, if you want someone else to check the japanese.

 

[LordGinSama]

For sure, Plants don't have endless energy hence why Knives heavily relied on the Ark, an amalgamation of thousands of Plants and Vash had to convince the Plants to defuse iirc in order to weaken Knives.




I'm somewhat tempted to make a plant physiology page, since they're directly labeled to be a very different type of existence as opposed to human organisms and such.

 

[Schnee_One]

I would suggest that

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree, nice job on the Trigun CRTs.

 

[LordGinSama]

And it's an awful shame the blog that the author wrote in his site about Vash and Knives is lost and I believe nobody on the internet archived it. But he went on about Plants manipulating causality, higher dimension manipulation and I think there was a tier 3-2 statement for Vash and co.




But that's irrelevant since it's completely lost but luckily Multiple Bullets gives us insight about plants that almost match up.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'd also like some input on what "Planck" manipulation would be? One would assume matter manipulation to a Godly degree but after looking into what a Planck Unit is I'm unsure what to classify it as. But going by what I'm reading Planck Manipulation is a separate ability aside from the matter and causality stuff

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I would imagine in essence it simply refers to hyper-precise manipulation of matter, meaning that anything on the scale of the plank length is fair game.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If the translations are accurate, I suppose Causality manipulation might be plausible.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

And it's an awful shame the blog that the author wrote in his site about Vash and Knives is lost and I believe nobody on the internet archived it. But he went on about Plants manipulating causality, higher dimension manipulation and I think there was a tier 3-2 statement for Vash and co.




But that's irrelevant since it's completely lost but luckily Multiple Bullets gives us insight about plants that almost match up.

I remember someone on G+ made a huge thread on Vash being at minimum tier 4, but that’s gone now.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically anyone familiar with translations and anyone good with abilities like causality.

@ShiroyashaGinSan @ChocomilkAlex

Would either of you be willing to check the Japanese text please?

 

[Jvando]

Causality manip might be fine if the translation is correct? Not too sure about that one tbh, but the matter manipulation is

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Technically speaking, causality manipulation should be valid if the other hax are also valid because the former is basically the underlying mechanism as to how the latter even existing in the first place.

A Plant's causality control is less like "i control causality so my bullet already hit you even before i pull the trigger" but something more along the lines of "i'm a member of a particular species who can control causality which somehow allows us to pull off matter/dimensional/energy manipulation."

A sentient Plant like Knives or Vash can develop all sort of funky powers, dimensional slicing and black hole bullet respectively, but they never really got explained in great details. We don't know why, how, where, and when they develop these powers other than they simply did at some point. The tidbit about the causality basically offers some modicum of explanation, which still doesn't explain a lot in a hindsight lol. It simply went from "there's no explanation for it" into "lmao causality **** yeah" but at least it's something.

Much like the OP had already said, it's basically just a minor indexing things which essentially only serves as an explanation for the origin of their power which they can pull off seemingly at random back in the main story.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am not against the mere idea of causality manipulation, just that if we have the japanese outright available, it could be fruitful to try and reach out to anyone with some proficiency in Japanese.

 

[Antvasima]

I already sent notifications to the only active members that I know of who are fluent in Japanese.

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Are there any other members you know of who might be willing to help us out with this?

Has anything else already been accepted here?

 

[LordGinSama]

Just any staff I suppose, I've asked several but they haven't commented for whatever reason.



Well it looks like everyone is fine as long as the Translations check out?

 

[Antvasima]

@LordGriffin1000

Would you be willing to comment here?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Matter Manipulation looks fine, I'm not the best when assessing abilities like casualty manipulation but if the scan it accurate and no one has any issues with it should be fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Matter manipulation seems fine to me, but would prefer a better explanation for spatial manipulation, and am uncertain about causality manipulation, if we have never seen the power used in practice in such a manner as we describe in our powers and abilities page for this.

 

[LordGinSama]

Not really sure how spatial manipulation ended up in the OP, I think that was auto correct? There's a statement of Plants being able to manipulate dimensions and such and that's here.


プラントはプランク的な不確定性を統制しエネルギー、物質、次元の操作など可能だが更には因果律の崩壊や創造が可能で全ての時間軸を含めた多元的宇宙、更に高位の次元にまで及ぶ。プラントの大元と呼べるものが多元的宇宙を遥かに上の高次元そのものであり、全ての始まりそのもの。


Which translates into "The plant can control plank-like uncertainty and manipulate energy, materials, and dimensions, but it can also collapse and create causality, extending to the multiverse including all time axes, and even higher dimensions.. What can be called the origin of the plant is the higher dimension itself far above the multiverse, and the beginning of everything itself.."




So there's further proof of the causality stuff but I wouldn't use the higher dimensions stuff since that's obviously hyperbole.




And Causality Manipulation can do a bunch of shit that isn't on the page, said page exits as a general rule of thumb to what the power can do, it doesn't list everything causality manipulation can do. Going by this logic most anime VN's wouldn't have Causality Manipulation since half the time they shit they do with it isn't even listed on the page.



The Causality Manipulation here is more along the lines of "I'll use my causality manipulation to alter the cause and effect of my productions, ranging from generating matter, creating black-holes and gaining random new powers."

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the power must be demonstrated to function in a similar manner to what we state in our page regarding the subject, not be another power with a similar title used within the story itself.

 

[LordGinSama]

And once again, if that were the case then most characters who are able to manipulate causality wouldn't have it. Causality is something that varries extremely from fiction to fiction. Not every application of Causality is the same, that's a bit silly if you ask me.




There's literal statements of Plants manipulating causality Manipulation but even we blatantly ignore that they'd simply get Quantum Manipulation and Reality warping instead.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that it should hopefully be fine then.

 

[LordGinSama]

So Plants get the following, Matter Manipulation ( Plank level. ) Causality Manipulation and space-time manipulation / dimension manipulation.




I'll be making a Plant Physiology page since they have a bunch of abilities and Resistances, and I'll also explain the powers to the best of my ability there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine.

No problem.

 

[LordGinSama]

You can feel free to close this thread btw, if there are any issues regarding the translations ( I use a very trustworthy site so that's doubtful. ) then it can be brought up another time.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.