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Transformers: Primus upgrade

I've done this before regarding the stats for the Unicron Trilogy Primus, however it pretty much died. However, I'm not only going to suggest upgrades for Primus, but for us to create profiles for characters in TF Cybertron that could go under the Aurex family section on the verse page. Here goes.


Attack Potency and Durability:


● In the episode titled "City", a weakened Primus rations his power to keep a black Hole known as the Unicron Singularity in check. He states that this Black Hole threatened countless worlds. And before anyone says Primus wouldn't know that for sure: http://www.transformers-universe.com/content/images/galerie/pics/162/16234_Primus_Techspec.JPG ^This comes from Hasbros toy, Hasbro owning Transformers itself. It's information is relevant. And it says that Primus has infinite intelligence. He's possibly nigh-omniscient.


● Vector Prime had stated that he went to see what the future held, and claimed he came to an impassable barrier, which isn't uncommon. However, he states that he saw what the "Black Hole would become", and says that it would bring the end of time. Vector Prime is an extremely reliable source, as he has existed since the beginning of time and is gaurdian of space and time.


● It would eventually make it's way to Gigantion, a planet in another universe. That makes it 4D, and also proves it to be Multi-Universal.


● The Black Hole is shown distorting the space around it.


https://plus.google.com/115407775212556162893/posts/WDM4eeJHYgY ^Galvatron obtained the Omega Lock and would wait for the Black Hole to destroy the universe, and then recreate it with the Omega Lock. (Note, that the Onega Lock is the exact same thing powering Primus)


http://www.transformers-universe.com/content/images/galerie/pics/1558/155823_VectorPrime_Profile.JPG ^Not only have reliable characters stated the Black Hole would destroy universes, but the official toys by Hasbro have stated so as well.


The above points combined tells us that it's likely Multi-Universal+, especially if you consider the size of the TF Universe.


Now that we have proof of it being Multi-Universal+, lemme give some character feats regarding it.


● Primus was completely unaffected by its power when holding it off. At the time that he does so, he didn't have the Omega Lock or any Cyber Planet keys, meaning he wasn't at full fighting capacity.


● Megatron survived the Black Hole at the start of the series. He later gets stronger by several times, but was only equal to Super Starscream when Starscream first absorbs some of Primus's spark. Starscream after absorbing more of Primus's spark and becoming the size of a large planet was beat and nearly killed by Primus without any Cyber Planet keys.


● After having his power restored by the Cyber Planet keys, he outright one shots this Black Hole and shows no fatigue afterwards.


Hell, far inferior characters have shown to be 4D.


Vector Prime has always existed outside of time, which is stated by Jolt, another highly reliable source, being a Minicon that has traveled with Vector Prime for likely millions of years. (Since Megatron one shot VP, this also gives Megatron surviving the Black Hole more validity, as he now has two 4D feats at the start of the series).


Speed: Far inferior characters have been capable of dodging lasers, such as Hotshot, and said lasers are claimed to be light speed by Super Starscream. He should be at least FTL+ to MTFL in reactions and combat as he is several times stronger than any other Transformer alive, several of them being capable of dodging lasers at the start of the series, as well as hit people who can dodge them. "Wait, but in your first link, it states Primus's speed is only a five" Which is likely an inconsistency. It is something contradicted by other feats. The intelligence part however, is not. Why?


● He knew of the death of Vector Prime despite the fact that no one told him this information, and Vector Prime died the moment they re-entered their own universe, likely light years away from Primus.


● He's existed since the beginning of time, so he should already be extremely knowledgeable about the universe


Even if you wanna say that the Primus stat placement from the toy can't be used, it doesn't matter as we already have enough confirmation that the Black Hole had such power. So here is where I pace him in stats


Attack Potency & Durability: At least Multi-Universal+ (Destroyed the Grand Black Hole, capable of destroying time and threatening countless worlds) Dura reasoning: (Unharmed by the Grand Black hole, stronger than any other character in the series)


Speed: At least FTL+, possibly MTFL (Inferior characters near the start of the series could dodge lasers and land blows on those who could, and Primus is far swifter than most Transformers)


Now, Optimus needs to have his stats upgraded, as well as new keys.


● He could harm Start of Series Megatron, who had a Universal+ durability feat (surviving in the core of the Grand Black hole)


● Could match Megatron blow for blow, despite him previously one shotting Vector Prime, another 4D being.


● At the end of the series, he punched through Galvatrons shield in Sonic Wing mode, which Primus couldn't break through (Although Primus didn't have the Omega Lock or Cyber Planet keys, Galvatron did)

Stats:

Key - Base | Super Mode | Savage Claw Mode | Sonic Wing Mode

Attack Potency: At least Universal+ (Should be far superior to Start of Series Galvatron), likely higher | Multi-Universal (Much stronger than before, defeated Galvatron at the end of the series) | Multi-Universal(stronger than before) | At least Multi-Universal (His strongest form, broke through an amped Galvatrons shield)


Speed: At least FTL (Far inferior characrers can dodge light speed lasers and hit people who could | FTL+ | FTL+ | At least FTL+ (by far his fastest form), potentially MTFL


Then we have Galvatron, who would be:


Key - Megatron | Galvatron | Galvatron w/ Omega Lock


Attack Potency: At least Universal+, possibly higher (Able to harm Optimus and one shot Vector Prime, wherws the Armour of Unicron, supressing Unicrons power so that he doesn't intervene once), likely higher | Multi-Universal (One shot the entire Autobot team, effortlessly defeated every Autobot when he was first created, would have defeated Super Mode Optimus if Vector Prime didn't intervene and give Prime his sword through his map) | Multi-Universal+ (The Omega Lock and Cyber Planet keys were amping him, the same thing that power Primus)


Speed: At least FTL (Superior to Optimus) | FTL+ (Far swifter than before) | At least FTL+, potentially MTFL


Vector Prime would be:


Attack Potency: At least Universal+ (4th dimensional being)


Durability: At least Universal+


Speed:
At least FTL (Same reasoning as Base Optimus)
 
Primus may or may not be reasonable, although I would much prefer to wait for confirmation from Iustitia Prime, who wrote most of our Transformers statistics. He seems to have quit the wiki though.

However, a universe level+ Optimus Prime seems extremely exaggerated, and we generally avoid scaling from surviving within black holes. See our Black Hole feats in fictio page for an explanation.

It is also most likely a Plot-Induced Stupidity outlier.

What are Optimus' and Megatron's other feats?
 
Megatrons feats in just Cybertron are as follows:

● Survives in the core of the Black Hole, which is essentially confirmed 4D through various reliable characters and the toys.

● One shot Vector Prime, a being that existed outside of time. (He arrives to assist from a distress signal, if I remember correctly said signal is from Primus, who is still in his Cybertron form.

● Keeps Unicrons power completely in check, as he has never interrupted Megatron (He wears the Armour of Unicron, which gives him access to most of Unicrons power)

● When a warp gate that allowed Optimus to get into Megatrons pocket dimension started to close in on itself, Megatron, having just being injured in battle with Sonic Wing Mode Optimus, used his full power to seemingly tear a hole in reality in an attempt to escape. I'm not entirely sure what this qualifies as, but here is the link to the feat

● In his clash with Super Starscream on Gigantion, Megatron (now Galvatron) and Starscream finish their fight with one final punch, and at the end of the exposion, Galvatron is the only one left. It is later revealed that Starscream was not killed, but blown into another dimension from the collision.

● After obtaining the Omega Lock, he heads for the Black Hole. Primus, who hasn't been effected by the Black Hole's power, gets two shot by Galvatrons dark lightning blasts.

● After being killed by Optimus, he was shown in the credits (I think it's the credits of the last episode) fighting Vector Prime, who is bac outside of time.

For Optimus:

● Optimus has constantly been capable of fighting on par with Megatron/Gavatron consistently, although has typically been slightly weaker.

● Is consistently portrayed as above Vector Prime, a being who exists outside of time.
 
Well, I am the entirely wrong person to ask, as I know very little about Transformers, and cannot keep the different continuities straight. However, I can highlight this thread for further input.
 
Preferably not. They do not display the full bodies, just part of them.
 
Yeah the calcs seem pretty accurate to me from what i've researched (and by that i mean googling the episodes and looking at the Transformers Wiki.)

I do agree that maybe Universe level Optimus and Megatron might be going to far, but the Primus one sounds pretty solid.
 
Well, we have G1 Optimus at Multi-Galaxy level forbwiping out a universe epanning hate plague. I don't see how this would seem exaggerated when we have feats like that
 
Well, wiping out an emotional attack seems unquantifiable though.

Anyway, without more useful input from the community, this is not going to be accepted. Iustitia Prime, who wrote the profile statistics, was extremely knowledgeable about Transformers, and I do not wish to mess them up. My apologies.
 
Apparently not anybody currently active in this wiki, given that I highlighted the thread.
 
Given how thoroughly informed Iustitia Prime was when writing these profiles, we need in-depth analytical efforts from people participating in this thread. However, I am leaning towards not allowing this, to be on the safe side.
 
Well, I remember that he specifically argued against these types of interpretations.

I am unwilling to constantly change profiles written by extremely well-informed people, based on much less thorough knowledge, simply because people inevitably constantly leave the wiki.

Statistics changes for the sake of statistics changes are not acceptable to me. So, my apologies, but this is not going through.
 
I do not know. We need considerable well-informed input for such massive statistics changes as the ones that you proposed though.
 
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