Transformers: Primus and Unicron upgrade

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

In TF Cybertron, the third and final installment of the Unicron Trilogy, Vector Prime stated that he traveled to the future to see what it had in store, and was unable to go forward, claiming he saw nothing ahead, and he said that the Unicron Singularity would bring about the destruction of time. That should make it 4D. Primus wasn't harmed by it, could hold it off when at a fraction of his power and even destroyed it when he had all four cyber planet keys, restoring him to his full power. Shouldn't he be Universal+ at least? And since Unicron fought with him, wouldn't it upgrade him as well?

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly, yes. Which continuity are we talking about, and which character profiles would be affected?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

@Ant. The Unicorn Trilogy, which includes Armada, Energon, and Cybertron,

 

[Antvasima]

I am not informed enough about Transformers for that to mean anything to me.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

@Ant the Aurex continuity, which consists of the three Dark mentioned, which is also listed as Post Retcon on his key. This would change Primus's Multi-Solar System rating to Universal+ for destroying a Black Hole that would destroy time. It would also scale to Post Retcon Unicron for fighting him.

It possibly also scales to Optimus Prime for taking down Master Galvatron, who defeated Primus, although I may need another post addessing this issue entirely, as it is a bit more complex.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

I also forgot to note, he blitzed Super Statscream when depowered. Lesser characters could dodge lasers that were said by Super Starscream to be light speed. He should have his speed changed to at least FTL in robot form.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I could highlight this thread for more input.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, you should probably inform Iustitia Prime about this thread.

 

[MechaMMaser]

I also forgot to note, he blitzed Super Statscream when depowered. Lesser characters could dodge lasers that were said by Super Starscream to be light speed. He should have his speed changed to at least FTL in robot form.

Sparky, you might want to check out new Unite Warriors manga where Unicron had almost caused the destruction of the whole multiverse by causing a disbalance in space and time via summoning transformers from different alt.universes. And a possible upgrade for Star Convoy, it was stated that the power that Prime shall have stored inside of him as Star Convoy shall be more powerful than that that had created the universe. http://news.tfw2005.com/2016/11/27/unite-warriors-final-story-manga-translation-329306

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

I'm not sure as to which continuity it follows, although those are impressive feats. Doesbit follow one of the four on the Primus profile, or is it a different continuity?

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

@Ant alright, will do.

 

[MechaMMaser]

I'm not sure as to which continuity it follows, although those are impressive feats. Doesbit follow one of the four on the Primus profile, or is it a different continuity?

It follows the official Japanese G1 Continuity and takes place right after the events of RID(Car Robots) and goes right before Battlestars where Prime is given the energy which had created the entire universe,

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

So it'd fit under here?

Either way, I'd like to see what lustitia Prime has to say about this.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's hope that he has not quit the wiki. He is our only Transformers expert.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

It's possible that he's just busy. If he quit, I'd assume he'd have notified or other staff members.

 

[MechaMMaser]

So it'd fit under here?
Either way, I'd like to see what lustitia Prime has to say about this.

No, it'd have to go here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Convoy_(G1_anime_and_manga) since it's a part of Japanese G1 continuity.


As for the american G1 Optimus, I've found out that both Megatron and Optimus were capable of tanking shots from full-powered universe level Shockwave who was so powerful, he started to bend the time and space itself in his own image and could easily destroy the universe according to the writers, the autobots and him himself.

 

[Antvasima]

Tanking shots from a universe level being is probably a Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier though.

 

[MechaMMaser]

Tanking shots from a universe level being is probably a Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier though.

Pretty sure IDW writers could have gotten around it if they didn't want Prime/Megatron to have that much power, plus this is, obviously, not the first time Prime survives that much as shown by the previous scans I've provided, he had clearly survived timespace ripping casulaities more than just for once, meaning it's already a law for Prime to be that durable. Plus if we go by this logic, then shouldn't Goku's universe shaking feat be an outlier just as well? The manga makes fun of the feat by having kais never mind it right after they are distracted with something else and the anime doesn't refer back to it after the events of BOG.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if it strongly contradicts all of their other displayed feats, I am afraid that it cannot be used. Sorry.

 

[MechaMMaser]

I don't really see much if any contradiction considering that one of the IDW writers came out and said that he did see Prime as a being around Thor's league of strength who is at least galaxy+ level, how does him surviving anything of such caliber contradict what he is supposed to be presented as? Anything Prime ever gets damaged with within the canonical boundaries is made by Transformers or is reverse engineering of the Transformers technology which is still literally Transformers technology, meaning Prime only ever gets damaged by the likes of his own, anything else barely affects him. Once again, just using Goku as an example here, since it's the best one I can draw, there have been several cases which prove that he's not as powerful as he is made out to be by people and there are lots of such cases, cases which contradict one instant in which he showed anything anywhere close to being universal, how is that not PIS and contradicting his character? If we apply such logic to Transformers, then why not apply it to the other franchises, because if we do, then Goku never was and will never be what people view him as since there's just way too much proof in the anime/manga that he is not that strong or durable. I am saying this because I do not want any BIAS, so if we have to exclude everything that works like PIS, then it should be applied to everything else just as well, not just one franchise in particular.

 

[Antvasima]

We do not scale between different fictional continuities, such as Marvel and Transformers, and Thor is generally portrayed as Building level at best. We simply scale him to solar system level from one of his highest feats. We do not know what level the writer in question considered Thor to be of when comparing him to Optimus Prime.

Power-scaling is often extremely unreliable within western comicbooks and othervise. Far weaker protagonists regularly survive beatings from far more powerful antagonists in order to keep the story going. We also do not know if Shockwave unleashed his full power against them.

In comparison, Goku has an actual feat of universal scale when he was far less powerful than currently.

I do not have the time and energy to argue any more about this subject with you, so I would appreciate if you permanently and immediately drop it. Thank you.

If you want to upgrade an american comicbook character, it is usually best to stick with their actual higher personal feats and consistent power-scaling, not extreme inconsistencies driven by plot convenience.