Touhou concept type 1 removal?

[BonjourGnome]

I have asked their fans about boundaries being type 1 in general discussion but it seems they havent showed the boundaries being independant from the object they govern so I think they should be removed

Reimu Hakurei

Reimu Hakurei is the Shrine Maiden of the Hakurei Shrine and the main protagonist of the Touhou series alongside her friend, Marisa Kirisame. She is exceptionally talented and gifted, but her laziness makes her hate training. Despite that, she resolves incidents anyway, and she's friendly and...

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Yukari Yakumo

Yukari Yakumo is a legendary youkai with the power to manipulate boundaries, and one of the youkai sages who created Gensokyo. Often called the "gap youkai," she is a remarkably youkai-like youkai who spends most of her time sleeping and relaxing. However, she is quite brilliant and is aware of...

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[Nissa_Ushiromiya]

I disagree. Reading the descriptions, i find it very consistent that these are Type 1 concepts. Furthermore, fans' words are worthless because it depends on how knowledgeable a person is. You have to provide scans and material if you want to debunk something.

 

[BonjourGnome]

I disagree. Reading the descriptions, i find it very consistent that these are Type 1 concepts. Furthermore, fans' words are worthless because it depends on how knowledgeable a person is. You have to provide scans and material if you want to debunk something.

What exactly that makes boundaries type 1 in the first place? Are they independant from the object they govern? Because no scans are claiming such things so you have to prove it

 

[Nissa_Ushiromiya]

What exactly that makes boundaries type 1 in the first place? Are they independant from the object they govern? Because no scans are claiming such things so you have to prove it

You're the one doing the debunking without material. So, it's you who has to prove that these aren't Type 1 concepts via Scan, not the others.

 

[Thermor]

You're the one doing the debunking without material. So, it's you who has to prove that these aren't Type 1 concepts via Scan, not the others.

Actually in the wiki, concepts type are defaulted to type 2. In order to get type 1, you have to prove it first.

 

[Robo432343]

Actually in the wiki, concepts type are defaulted to type 2. In order to get type 1, you have to prove it first.

???
Touhou is already accepted as type 1

anyway
cm 1 downgrade thread got rejected before

Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

I know people are gonna jump on me for this. There is nothing in the profile or in the scans states Concepts in Touhou Project are independent from the reality they govern. From scans names only creates and destroys things and it's just type 3 concepts. Hence this should be Downgraded to CM...

vsbattles.com

 

[Thermor]

???
Touhou is already accepted as type 1

anyway
cm 1 downgrade thread got rejected before

Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

I know people are gonna jump on me for this. There is nothing in the profile or in the scans states Concepts in Touhou Project are independent from the reality they govern. From scans names only creates and destroys things and it's just type 3 concepts. Hence this should be Downgraded to CM...

vsbattles.com

I was just referring to that specific statement, I dont have knowledge on the verse.

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually in the wiki, concepts type are defaulted to type 2. In order to get type 1, you have to prove it first.

No, concept is default to type 3, you need to prove it to be universal to get type 2 and then prove independency to get type 1. Of course this is assume that the concept in question is legit, qualifying concept

Anyway, i'm neutral, but the OP concern is valid from what i can see, since from all the scans existing on the profiles no scan implies the independecy of either Name stuff or Boundary stuff, and no explanation blog either, probably someone should fixes this issues, and no one want to goes back to several threads in the past with over hundred of comments just to find the reasons

 

[BonjourGnome]

???
Touhou is already accepted as type 1

anyway
cm 1 downgrade thread got rejected before

Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

I know people are gonna jump on me for this. There is nothing in the profile or in the scans states Concepts in Touhou Project are independent from the reality they govern. From scans names only creates and destroys things and it's just type 3 concepts. Hence this should be Downgraded to CM...

vsbattles.com

Wow 8 pages? Might have to get a coffee first

 

[BonjourGnome]

No, concept is default to type 3, you need to prove it to be universal to get type 2 and then prove independency to get type 1. Of course this is assume that the concept in question is legit, qualifying concept

Anyway, i'm neutral, but the OP concern is valid from what i can see, since from all the scans existing on the profiles no scan implies the independecy of either Name stuff or Boundary stuff, and no explanation blog either, probably someone should fixes this issues, and no one want to goes back to several threads in the past with over hundred of comments just to find the reasons

In the thread he sent, the fans mention Names creates everything including boundaries which makes names independant. And at the same time, boundaries are able to manipulate names which makes them also independant?

 

[BonjourGnome]

I dont know why the profiles didnt mention names being independant at all

 

[Thermor]

???
Touhou is already accepted as type 1

anyway
cm 1 downgrade thread got rejected before

Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

I know people are gonna jump on me for this. There is nothing in the profile or in the scans states Concepts in Touhou Project are independent from the reality they govern. From scans names only creates and destroys things and it's just type 3 concepts. Hence this should be Downgraded to CM...

vsbattles.com

Why was KLOL's vote being counted tho?

 

[Vesxpura]

idk why people r tryna downgrade cm 1 when its not that difficult to get n doesnt even do anything the others cant do

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

BonjourGnome, I was fairly busy with other things yesterday, including doing my homework on some other esoteric verses with active CRTs, but I gave you a huge starting point to start researching this stuff & you dismissed it literally less than five minutes after. There's no way you had time to look through the Boundary Manipulation section, or even the summary before it, in four minutes, so I trusted that you'd just jumped the gun and would soon be more diligent than that. And I took the time to make sure I was understanding CM1 properly before responding further, myself. Let's have at least a bit more rigor before making a fuss.

Frankly, even these outdated profiles cover the bases well enough for this one, it isn't as if they lack any explanations and citations at all. Does all that detail under Yukari's CM description really not sound independent-enough you? And so did Fujiwara's posts address CM1 the last time this was brought up (by a not-good but still higher-effort OP). Here, here, here, etc. And yeah, maybe no one wants to read an old thread with hundreds of posts, either, but I just did (again), so can others. Vague incredulity isn't a helpful starting point for explanation, so if you still don't see how those sources answer any questions you have, give me some specifics to work with & I'll see what I can do to help.

 

[Thermor]

BonjourGnome, I was fairly busy with other things yesterday, including doing my homework on some other esoteric verses with active CRTs, but I gave you a huge starting point to start researching this stuff & you dismissed it literally less than five minutes after. There's no way you had time to look through the Boundary Manipulation section, or even the summary before it, in four minutes, so I trusted that you'd just jumped the gun and would soon be more diligent than that. And I took the time to make sure I was understanding CM1 properly before responding further, myself. Let's have at least a bit more rigor before making a fuss.

Frankly, even these outdated profiles cover the bases well enough for this one, it isn't as if they lack any explanations and citations at all. Does all that detail under Yukari's CM description really not sound independent-enough you? And so did Fujiwara's posts address CM1 the last time this was brought up (by a not-good but still higher-effort OP). Here, here, here, etc. And yeah, maybe no one wants to read an old thread with hundreds of posts, either, but I just did (again), so can others. Vague incredulity isn't a helpful starting point for explanation, so if you still don't see how those sources answer any questions you have, give me some specifics to work with & I'll see what I can do to help.

You should have respond this to Vieth instead who is a staff. He mentions the OP's concerns being valid.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

You should have respond this to Vieth instead who is a staff. He mentions the OP's concerns being valid.

? I addressed the concerns of BonjourGnome because he is the OP. Those are the OP's concerns.