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Toppo vs Asriel (0-0-0)

Originlima said:
Soul Manip + Soul Absorb + Dream Manip + Mind Manip
Click to expand...
Got nothing for mind or dream manip (Don't recall him using those in battle tho), but Toppo should have a resistance to Soul manip given he has resistance to existence erasure from Hakai which also erases the soul of whoever is erased.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Looked it up. We sure it wasn't Frisk being put to sleep when Asriel 'left' or something?
Click to expand...
But anyway, profile somehow STILL misses Dream Manip even though EVERY monster woken up and we were sleeping when we were fighting with Asriel
 
Comiphorous said:
is the resistance to paralysis based on the soul? since pretty sure his paralysis based off the soul.

but does have RESETs and LOADs.
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1. I'm not sure, but regardless Asriel starts in Base, and he doesn't have it in Base
2. RESETs and LOADs work by going back to a specific point in time. It doesn't change the future. In this scenario, the only thing Toppo will ever do in character is EE. He's not going to do anything else since his mind is also reset every time Asriel RESETs. Sure Asriel can see it coming but he can't exactly do anything about it besides resetting, which pretty much means it's incon. Sure, you can argue that Asriel can go into his true form and try for paralysis, but not only is that unlikely to work in the first place due to Toppo's resistance, but it's also not faster than Toppo raising his finger and instantly erasing him.

basically, Asriel starts with hax, Toppo also starts with Hax, both nearly die, Asriel resets, rinse, repeat

If someone here can prove that Asriel's para works on Toppo, then I'm changing my vote to Asriel but I don't see that yet
 
Mickey1940 said:
1. I'm not sure, but regardless Asriel starts in Base, and he doesn't have it in Base
2. RESETs and LOADs work by going back to a specific point in time. It doesn't change the future. In this scenario, the only thing Toppo will ever do in character is EE. He's not going to do anything else since his mind is also reset every time Asriel RESETs. Sure Asriel can see it coming but he can't exactly do anything about it besides resetting, which pretty much means it's incon. Sure, you can argue that Asriel can go into his true form and try for paralysis, but not only is that unlikely to work in the first place due to Toppo's resistance, but it's also not faster than Toppo raising his finger and instantly erasing him.
Click to expand...
Expect he has thought based absorbtion.
Mickey1940 said:
If someone here can prove that Asriel's para works on Toppo, then I'm changing my vote to Asriel but I don't see that yet
Click to expand...
Soul paralysis
 
Mickey1940 said:
2. RESETs and LOADs work by going back to a specific point in time. It doesn't change the future. In this scenario, the only thing Toppo will ever do in character is EE. He's not going to do anything else since his mind is also reset every time Asriel RESETs. Sure Asriel can see it coming but he can't exactly do anything about it besides resetting, which pretty much means it's incon. Sure, you can argue that Asriel can go into his true form and try for paralysis, but not only is that unlikely to work in the first place due to Toppo's resistance, but it's also not faster than Toppo raising his finger and instantly erasing him.

basically, Asriel starts with hax, Toppo also starts with Hax, both nearly die, Asriel resets, rinse, repeat

If someone here can prove that Asriel's para works on Toppo, then I'm changing my vote to Asriel but I don't see that yet
Click to expand...
Prove his resistance covers soul-based paralysis, and even then considering this definitely isn't chara he's starting with soul absorb, which kinda ***** him over.
 
ShionAH said:
Expect he has thought based absorbtion.

Soul paralysis
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1. Flowey couldn't do it against anyone else in the underworld despite having reset thousands if not millions of times and lived countless lifetimes. Even if it does work right off the bat, it's not an instant gg since that still takes a few seconds. Toppo can just kiai and erase Asriel like that by extending his Hakai aura

2. The way SOULs work in undertale simply means that monsters and humans alike can take soul based attacks as physical ones, meaning any attempt on their soul is treated as a physical attack.
This means that SOUL-based telekinesis and paralysis is treated quite literally no different than any other form of paralysis and telekinesis, which means it's impossible to prove if it's soul-based paralysis.
Not only that, souls in dragon ball have their own bodies and can fight independently, as shown by Goku being able to train and get stronger during the Buu sage 7 year timeskip.
NOT ONLY THAT, Hakai erases someone's soul on top of erasing their physical body. I honestly find it stupid that people who resist Hakai don't have limited resistance to Soul Manip since that's literally what Hakai does.
There's no reason to assume that Toppo instantly gets negged by paralysis due to all of these considerations
You guys are also forgetting that he only has this ability in his True form. Meaning even with his resets, he needs to transform to access it, which gives Toppo enough time to do anything and Asriel gets erased.

There's nothing Asriel can do to do anything faster than Toppo can considering speed is equal. Asriel can keep resetting yeah but the outcome won't change. Both will just die over and over without much progress being made for each side
 
Mickey1940 said:
1. Flowey couldn't do it against anyone else in the underworld despite having reset thousands if not millions of times and lived countless lifetimes. Even if it does work right off the bat, it's not an instant gg since that still takes a few seconds. Toppo can just kiai and erase Asriel like that by extending his Hakai aura
Click to expand...
It was near instant against the entire underground so no. Flowey didn't have the 6 souls.
Mickey1940 said:
2. The way SOULs work in undertale simply means that monsters and humans alike can take soul based attacks as physical ones, meaning any attempt on their soul is treated as a physical attack.
This means that SOUL-based telekinesis and paralysis is treated quite literally no different than any other form of paralysis and telekinesis, which means it's impossible to prove if it's soul-based paralysis.
Not only that, souls in dragon ball have their own bodies and can fight independently, as shown by Goku being able to train and get stronger during the Buu sage 7 year timeskip.
NOT ONLY THAT, Hakai erases someone's soul on top of erasing their physical body. I honestly find it stupid that people who resist Hakai don't have limited resistance to Soul Manip since that's literally what Hakai does.
There's no reason to assume that Toppo instantly gets negged by paralysis due to all of these considerations
You guys are also forgetting that he only has this ability in his True form. Meaning even with his resets, he needs to transform to access it, which gives Toppo enough time to do anything and Asriel gets erased.

There's nothing Asriel can do to do anything faster than Toppo can considering speed is equal. Asriel can keep resetting yeah but the outcome won't change. Both will just die over and over without much progress being made for each side
Click to expand...
EE is not the same as hakai. Nothing here is true btw.
 
Mickey1940 said:
1. Flowey couldn't do it against anyone else in the underworld despite having reset thousands if not millions of times and lived countless lifetimes. Even if it does work right off the bat, it's not an instant gg since that still takes a few seconds. Toppo can just kiai and erase Asriel like that by extending his Hakai aura
Click to expand...
Asriel's absorption is faster and doesn't have the limitations that Flowey's did. he can 100% just absorb him.
 
Asriel can just reset, put paralysis on and nuke the dude with one hit or simply load his single attack since he oneshots.
 
Bro.
L2c form in the past is automatically True Form, like we don't have Base Asriel anymore on wiki even

we automatically start with true one also SBA does it's thing

So nah, get outta here
 
ShionAH said:
Because he was covering the entire underground

EE = EE Resistance
Click to expand...
1. Even in the Photoshop Flower cutscene, he needed several seconds to absorb souls that were inches away from him.

2. ????? Have you watched DBZ? Toppo has Existence Erasure even on his profile, and he resists it by extension
 
Originlima said:
Bro.
L2c form in the past is automatically True Form, like we don't have Base Asriel anymore on wiki even

we automatically start with true one also SBA does it's thing

So nah, get outta here
Click to expand...
no
SBA doesn't make them start in their strongest form unless the OP specifically states it.
Base and GoH Asriel both share the exact same key
 
Mickey1940 said:
Absorbing someone over several seconds is slower than an MFTL raising their hand
or glare
Click to expand...
Using flowey who is infinitely inferior to asriel as proof his absorption will take a bit isn't real proof.
Mickey1940 said:
1. Even in the Photoshop Flower cutscene, he needed several seconds to absorb souls that were inches away from him.
Click to expand...
Same as before, Photoshop flowey is infinitely inferior to asriel.
Mickey1940 said:
no
SBA doesn't make them start in their strongest form unless the OP specifically states it.
Base and GoH Asriel both share the exact same key
Click to expand...
"Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version."

he's god of hyperdeath in this scenario.
 
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