Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 10- Binah vs Mag Agent Gestalt

[Topaz404]

Its Round 10, my dudes
Nothing special to say for this one. RIP
Rules and Bracket

Fight takes place in the Nevadan Desert

Project Gestalt- the key to immortality

Former Sephirot, Now Librarian

Inconclusive​

 

[Comiphorous]

So, what ways does Binah have to permanently kill Gestalt?

Binah can't get rid of his defenses, as he can naturaly adapt to them being removed and gain them back. this applies to most of his stuff.

 

[Topaz404]

I dont see any resistances to BLACK damage (Corrosion Inducement/Resistance negation), or PALE damage (Death/Soul/Life Force Absorb/Dura Neg/Paralysis Inducement), along with general stat reductions to Gestalt, stat amps for Binah

Pretty sure the only thing used to try and kill Gestalt is S-3LF energy and conventional weapons/bullets (then again i havent played Nexus but that is what i know from general knowledge of the series)

Gestalt aint as invincible your making it out to be....

 

[Comiphorous]

I dont see any resistances to BLACK damage (Corrosion Inducement/Resistance negation)

The invulnerability in question:

PALE damage (Death/Soul/Life Force Absorb/Dura Neg/Paralysis Inducement), along with general stat reductions to Gestalt, stat amps for Binah

Death manipulation is based on the soul, which he has thousands of, and gains more every moment he's alive. can't kill him through that.

Dura neg is based off attacking his internal organs, which he doesn't have.

Paralysis doesn't help Binah kill Gestalt.

Stat Reductions is likely completely negated by Gestalt passively becoming stronger.

Pretty sure the only thing used to try and kill Gestalt is S-3LF energy and conventional weapons/bullets (then again i havent played Nexus but that is what i know from general knowledge of the series)

What, lmao???

no, they used energy from hell that would rip apart reality if left uncontained.

and even then, Gestalt regained his invulnerability after being exposed to it.

 

[Comiphorous]

Gestalt aint as invincible your making it out to be....

And, regarding this.

it's literally on his profile.

 

[Topaz404]

And, regarding this.

it's literally on his profile.

ok yeah im blind


Didnt i just mention that i havent played the game where Gestalt is from? Ive only seen the web series on YouTube. Im sorry for not knowing anything in a thing i havent seen

Anyways
Sorry bout that. Got a little too heated

Im just gonna ask this before continuing. Binah may summon Apoc Bird to the fight via Apocalypse. Would we count this as in game mechanics (Apoc Bird just slams its fists at their opponents) or would we just have Binah just summon Apoc Bird fully into the fight? Just need to clarify

 

[Comiphorous]

Didnt i just mention that i havent played the game where Gestalt is from? Ive only seen the web series on YouTube. Im sorry for not knowing anything in a thing i havent seen

Anyways
Sorry bout that. Got a little too heated

His weakness to dissonance is listed on the profile aswell.

edit: never mind, no it's not.

Im just gonna ask this before continuing. Binah may summon Apoc Bird to the fight via Apocalypse. Would we count this as in game mechanics (Apoc Bird just slams its fists at their opponents) or would we just have Binah just summon Apoc Bird fully into the fight? Just need to clarify

If it's accepted that Binah can summon them, i don't see why they wouldn't be fully in the fight. i guess you'd need to ask a supporter on how that's applied

 

[Polandballczechball]

Im going to be honest who thought it would be funny to submit Gestalt.

 

[Comiphorous]

Im going to be honest who thought it would be funny to submit Gestalt.

Me. im that silly billy.

 

[Topaz404]

Well, Binah doesnt really have access to Dissonance energy, so......though im pretty sure she can find some way to bypass its defenses, or at least break it to the point that it cant move or fight. Incap/BFR still works as a wincon

Also yeah ive asked Poland in DMs about the Apoc Bird situation. Because im pretty sure if Apoc Bird is summoned fully and has access to everything, Gestalt might be screwed. Then again, we may have to give it prior knowledge of the potential of Apoc Bird eggs

 

[Comiphorous]

Well, Binah doesnt really have access to Dissonance energy, so......though im pretty sure she can find some way to bypass its defenses, or at least break it to the point that it cant move or fight. Incap/BFR still works as a wincon

I'm going to be honest, i have no idea what'd happen if one were to BFR Gestalt. Gestalt exists as a gateway between dimensions, so im assuming, if he's alive, Phobos should be able to project himself into reality and fight. idk if his projection relies on Gestalt being in the same dimension as his projection.

 

[Topaz404]

I mean Binah doesnt even have BFR so that point is kinda moot. Binah can still just incapacitate it if she cant kill it- or while she figures out a way to kill it

 

[Comiphorous]

I mean Binah doesnt even have BFR so that point is kinda moot. Binah can still just incapacitate it if she cant kill it- or while she figures out a way to kill it

I suppose. if phobos decides to appear and pick up where Gestalt couldn't while he's incapped, it'll be a fight Binah could actually do since Phobos isn't stupidly invulnerable and survivable as Gestalt is.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, i think Binah would be able to (keyword, THINK) sus out that Gestalt is being controlled by something or is generally linked to something, and wear it down to the point to force Phobos out of hiding

But uh
Didnt ya mention Phobos is stuck in hell and you need Uni+ ranged to kill him? Or something like that?

 

[Comiphorous]

But uh
Didnt ya mention Phobos is stuck in hell and you need Uni+ ranged to kill him? Or something like that?

Phobos is projecting himself out of hell through Gestalt, yeah.

you can actually kill his projections though, causing him to take time and project himself again.

 

[Topaz404]

So assuming the big guy is taken care of and Phobos projects himself, whats he got to fight vs Binah? Binah has fought some pretty damned skilled characters, like Gebura (Kali) at her prime as the Red Mist (though got ganked because she underestimated her), though, the two fought again as Librarians and with knowledge of what both can do (not at their prime, but close enough)

And Binah has also fought Color Fixer/Fixers that could be comparable to The Red Mist in general- along with a strike team sent by the Head (i forgor what it had fully, but i know it at least had a Claw in it (male version of an Arbiter basically) to go and retrieve her from the Library (they failed)

So i'd say Binah is pretty skilled in combat

 

[Comiphorous]

So assuming the big guy is taken care of and Phobos projects himself, whats he got to fight vs Binah? Binah has fought some pretty damned skilled characters, like Gebura (Kali) at her prime as the Red Mist (though got ganked because she underestimated her), though, the two fought again as Librarians and with knowledge of what both can do (not at their prime, but close enough)

And Binah has also fought Color Fixer/Fixers that could be comparable to The Red Mist in general- along with a strike team sent by the Head (i forgor what it had fully, but i know it at least had a Claw in it (male version of an Arbiter basically) to go and retrieve her from the Library (they failed)

So i'd say Binah is pretty skilled in combat

Phobos, before his death, was able to fight with jesus who stole the keystone fragment, which used dissonance energy, and the keystone fragment was considered the only thing to make any fight with phobos possible.

even with an item that could warp reality and rip apart matter, Phobos was still capable of fighting evenly with him, so much so that Jesus still considered their fight to be legendary with the item. With jesus, he was capable of running through the science tower, fodderizing rooms full of soldiers that were all trained with the Sleepwalker Program, something which trains a single person to murder rooms filled with people armed with guns and other weaponry, whilst mostly unarmed.

This was even before his death.

After his death and coming back, Phobos off the bat was able to match Sanford, Deimos, and Hank all at the same time, all three of them also capable of the same things above, with Hank being even better than Jesus skill-wise being able to do the same as Jesus, even while heavily injured, and being able to fight Tricky the Clown, who can fight two armies at the same time armed with guns without issue.

tldr; Phobos in this key basically has the skill of the most skilled characters in the verse, but better.

 

[Topaz404]

Though you did mention Phobos not being as durable as Gestalt, so maybe Binah would be able to get a hit in. Do keep in mind that she does have Chain still- and while it doesnt work on the conceptual level here, its still chains that spawn from below to ensnare a target

Lemme just- copy/paste Binah's stamina from her page if you dont mind

(Arbiters should have superior augmentations to fixers and characters such as Myo, and augmented endurance is very common within the setting. Examples of this include Grade 4 Fixer Pameli surviving long enough as just a head to be evacuated and transplanted onto a hastily cloned body of Pamela, Index Messenger Yan surviving the removal of a significant chunk of his head long enough to be found by Proxies, a Docent of the Ring remaining in fighting shape even after being punched through by Vergilius in a manner described as breaking bones and tearing through organs,[6] and a member of the Rabbit Team itself being fine enough to maintain a lighthearted mood and finishing the job even after having their innards melted by PALE damage.[7] It took being impaled by Mimicry at the end of a long fight to incapacitate her, and despite this Binah was ultimately still captured alive.)

 

[Comiphorous]

Though you did mention Phobos not being as durable as Gestalt, so maybe Binah would be able to get a hit in. Do keep in mind that she does have Chain still- and while it doesnt work on the conceptual level here, its still chains that spawn from below to ensnare a target

Lemme just- copy/paste Binah's stamina from her page if you dont mind

(Arbiters should have superior augmentations to fixers and characters such as Myo, and augmented endurance is very common within the setting. Examples of this include Grade 4 Fixer Pameli surviving long enough as just a head to be evacuated and transplanted onto a hastily cloned body of Pamela, Index Messenger Yan surviving the removal of a significant chunk of his head long enough to be found by Proxies, a Docent of the Ring remaining in fighting shape even after being punched through by Vergilius in a manner described as breaking bones and tearing through organs,[6] and a member of the Rabbit Team itself being fine enough to maintain a lighthearted mood and finishing the job even after having their innards melted by PALE damage.[7] It took being impaled by Mimicry at the end of a long fight to incapacitate her, and despite this Binah was ultimately still captured alive.)

can the chains ensnare airborn targets? Phobos has forcefields he uses in character, and levitates naturally.

either way, theres really only two ways this match goes: Phobos dwindles Binah down over time, regardless how many projections it takes, or binah kills phobos, and within the time it takes for him to come back can figure out a way to kill Gestalt to block Phobos off from coming back.

 

[Topaz404]

Looking over the general Guest (enemy) list in Library of Ruina, yeah, there are plenty of levitating/flying foes (mainly Distortions/Abrnormalities), and considering the J Corp singularity has always been with them, it could also been inferred that she has faced Abnos in her time before the events of the games that are capable of flight/levitation

But yeah, those seem to be it. Binah does have the ability to heal with Abno Pages/Certain passives, so unless Phobos has some way to just absolutely nuke her within the restrictions, then Binah's wincon seems more likely

 

[Comiphorous]

Binah does have the ability to heal with Abno Pages/Certain passives, so unless Phobos has some way to just absolutely nuke her within the restrictions, then Binah's wincon seems more likely

Ok... and how does binah kill Gestalt then? i mean we haven't even established how Binah could even put Gestalt down temporarily, let alone kill him through his defenses. and i know damn well Binah isn't going to be killing Gestalt through any of their physical attacks, nor their PALE damage since he's conventionally immune to both of them.

 

[Topaz404]

So i dont waste my time listing off stuff that ends up not working, what in the games have we seen Gestalt shrug off so far?

 

[Comiphorous]

So i dont waste my time listing off stuff that ends up not working, what in the games have we seen Gestalt shrug off so far?

All attempts of physical damage (all but not limited to; falling from skyscrapers, being crushed, being shot, being beaten, being blown up with explosives, dissonance energy and it's effects [which includes matter manipulation, madness manipulation, radiation, and power nullification])

being shot while depowered by dissonance, and being unaffected despite not having it's defenses up, and quickly regaining said defenses.

tldr; anything physical, and just happens to have a work around against other stuff due to his physiology.

 

[Topaz404]

Yknow, im really thinking this is gonna be the first incon of this tournament. Binah cant really break the Gestalt, only Phobos (if they even bother), and Binah is just able to passively recover from whatever Gestalt/Phobos throws at her. I dont think summoning Apoc Bird to help is gonna do much for Binah, except for maybe holding down the Gestalt. Dunno

 

[Polandballczechball]

Damn

honestly didn’t think we’d actually have an incon for the tournament

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah same here
So, Comi

What do you think we should do here?

 

[Comiphorous]

Yknow, im really thinking this is gonna be the first incon of this tournament. Binah cant really break the Gestalt, only Phobos (if they even bother), and Binah is just able to passively recover from whatever Gestalt/Phobos throws at her. I dont think summoning Apoc Bird to help is gonna do much for Binah, except for maybe holding down the Gestalt. Dunno

All of her passives that heal her require to meet a certain requirement, the only notable one that she could achieve would be defeating an opponent, i really doubt she can rely on that to survive fighting Gestalt or Phobos, especially considering how skilled Phobos is, and how much more impressive it is than Binah's.

 

[Topaz404]

I mean, the thing is, Phobos just gets terribly outhaxxed, and she can still Chain him down. Hmmmm
Question?
Do both Gestalt/Phobos resist Possession? I mean, if Apoc Bird is being summoned as a full ally could posses them to go focus on itself, leaving Binah open to attack them until Phobos/Gestalt get to Apoc Bird (which then ends the Possession)

(Granted if Apoc Bird was used as a full ally i would probably need to give Gestalt/Phobos knowledge of the eggs that appear around as well)

 

[Comiphorous]

I mean, the thing is, Phobos just gets terribly outhaxxed, and she can still Chain him down. Hmmmm
Question?
Do both Gestalt/Phobos resist Possession? I mean, if Apoc Bird is being summoned as a full ally could posses them to go focus on itself, leaving Binah open to attack them until Phobos/Gestalt get to Apoc Bird (which then ends the Possession)

(Granted if Apoc Bird was used as a full ally i would probably need to give Gestalt/Phobos knowledge of the eggs that appear around as well)

and it really doesn't matter if phobos is outhaxxed, none of it's one-shot, and due to Phobos already being dead/fighting a projection of him, a lot of Binah's haxes simply wouldn't work with him conventionally, and outskills so getting close to him is a death sentence.

Chaining Phobos down when stats are equalized won't do much, since he can simply break out due to LS being equal. same with Gestalt, but his LS gets higher so technically Binah can't evne chain Gestalt down to begin with.

Idk if you can possess a projection, and possessing gestalt likely wouldn't work due to Phobos controlling Gestalt in the first place.

 

[Topaz404]

I mean, looking at the profiles again- even with speed equalized, Binah does have a range advantage....
Man, im just tired at this point. This just kinda looks like a case of "oh, you dont have the needed, specific thing to lower its defense? fvck you then!" but then again, i could just be coping

 

[DrGreyman]

i don't think binah should be able to just fully summon apoc bird unless it specifically says so
that just makes her a copy of apoc bird, but better, kinda boring
and if it just says 'for an attack' then it should just be for that attack

 

[Topaz404]

i don't think binah should be able to just fully summon apoc bird unless it specifically says so
that just makes her a copy of apoc bird, but better, kinda boring
and if it just says 'for an attack' then it should just be for that attack

I talked to a PM supporter (Poland) they said it would be fine-

But i mean either way it doesnt look like it matters much anyways

 

[Topaz404]

Also i thought it would be funny to see Binah try and fight the Reckoning, but it appears that will not be the case
Like a certain skeleton said, ya gotta know when to quit

 

[DrGreyman]

Also i thought it would be funny to see Binah try and fight the Reckoning, but it appears that will not be the case
Like a certain skeleton said, ya gotta know when to quit

wait, are you having gestalt move on then?

 

[Topaz404]

Most likely, considering, like i said, Gestalt just seems like "if you dont have this specific counter of dura neg, fck you, you cant do shit"

 

[Comiphorous]

I mean, looking at the profiles again- even with speed equalized, Binah does have a range advantage....
Man, im just tired at this point. This just kinda looks like a case of "oh, you dont have the needed, specific thing to lower its defense? fvck you then!" but then again, i could just be coping

nah that aint cope, Gestalt is just that stupid and coincidentally has the physiology to dodge most hax against him.

it also doesn't help he might be gaining resistance to plot manipulation, layered mind manipulation, and Info Manip type 2 because he can defy an all governing god which encompasses everything in reality which controls the plot of the world. making him even more of a stonewall to deal with.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah next time i do this dont expect Gestalt to be allowed in again as an FYI, but other then that, i raise the white flag and Gestalt shall move on

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah next time i do this dont expect Gestalt to be allowed in again as an FYI, but other then that, i raise the white flag and Gestalt shall move on

If you do this again, and wanted to put a MC character in, would characters that originated from the animation, but make a notable appearance in the games be allowed, or does that not count?

 

[Topaz404]

If you do this again, and wanted to put a MC character in, would characters that originated from the animation, but make a notable appearance in the games be allowed, or does that not count?

Yeah, i think that should count, so yeah you can have your skill gods like Hank/Tricky/Jesus/Tricky, but nothing stupid like Gestalt

Though i reckon the the Reckoning might be able to beat it. Maybe. Maybe

istfg if Gestalt walks all over this tournament
well. at least a loser's bracket is in order

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah, i think that should count, so yeah you can have your skill gods like Hank/Tricky/Jesus/Tricky, but nothing stupid like Gestalt

The fact tricky is even stupider than Gestalt is

Though i reckon the the Reckoning might be able to beat it. Maybe. Maybe

istfg if Gestalt walks all over this tournament
well. at least a loser's bracket is in order

Hopefully. if he loses those losers bracket fellas are gonna ******* die bruh