Too late ~ Kessler vs Sans

[Greg4581]

Except that Flowey does blatantly rewind time during his boss fight?
And no, 4th wall breaks don't mean anything. It's just the characters acknowledging the fact that they aren't real.

That doesn't make them weaker than everyone else in fiction because fictional characters aren't real by default (duh).

The whole point is that you pretend they ARE real, otherwise you have no fight. Two nonexistent beings cannot fight each other. Therefore it's contradictory and just plain silly to feature characters on here who break the 4th wall. It would be like me saying I don't exist IRL.

Imagine if you had Deadpool fighting someone on here, and one of his powers was to say "hey guys, you should totally vote for me so I can kick this guy's ass!" It defeats the entire purpose of this site.

 

[Schnee_One]

Kessler loves to abuse it but I wouldn't say he leads with it, but he's still more then smart enough to actually use it to break out if he realizes he's being restrained.

Also yeah stronger telikinesis will help against telikinesis that is used to help land a soul attack.

Now here's my question

Does Kessler having a passive 7B shield help?

 

[Kaltias]

@Greg

Yes, you pretend that they are real compared to each other. It really doesn't take a lot of effort to pretend that the 4th wall breaking character exists on the same level as the other one.

 

[Greg4581]

@Kaltias

You're completely missing the point but whatever, I'm done arguing. I've made my case well enough and it's up for the others to decide.

 

[Schnee_One]

Then make the point clearer, I can barely understand what you're saying...

 

[TheArsenal1212]

@Schnee I think he's saying UT characters shouldn't have time Manipulation and that's it's fourth wall breaking basically

 

[Schnee_One]

I got the idea

But

That's it.

 

[Greg4581]

Then make the point clearer, I can barely understand what you're saying...

My point is that people tend to cherry pick. I'm fine with people saying the load/save is canon but I'm not fine with people being inconsistent. If load/save is canon then what's to stop "quit" from being canon? Or "uninstall?" Oh look, I just erased their universe, I guess that makes me a 2-B tier!

And I alreadly explained how character dialog is not the only means for determining if something is canon or not.

 

[Kaltias]

Except that, again, Flowey literally uses LOAD during his boss fight to reset your position.

It's not "only character dialogue", it's as blatant as Cole being able to manipulate electricity, because it literally happens on screen

 

[Greg4581]

Except that, again, Flowey literally uses LOAD during his boss fight to reset your position.
It's not "only character dialogue", it's as blatant as Cole being able to manipulate electricity, because it literally happens on screen

Okay then, explain to me what this magical "load" ability is. Becuase it sounds to me like a simple attempt at breaking the 4th wall and nothing more. And it gets even worse with the Charra ending.

It's completely different from shooting lighting which is an actual physical phenomenon that has well defined rules and limits.

Toby could have easily went with "Flowy learns a time manipulation spell" but instead he chose to break the 4th wall which immediately forces us to question what else is or isn't canon based on the game itself and its functions.

So yeah, at the end of the day, I don't think anyone in the Undertale universe should have time/reality warping abilities, because it just confounds everything and isn't logical.

 

[Kaltias]

It's time rewind with a fancy name. That's what it is in-verse.

A person shooting lightning is complete bs according to every single law of physic ever. So no, it's not different. Fiction doesn't make sense, and it doesn't have to.

Or maybe you could consider the power that was blatantly shown as canon and what isn't shown as non canon.

Cool, but as I explained, you are not allowed to say "the profile is wrong" in versus threads. If you want to change that, go to the content revision board

 

[Greg4581]

@Kaltias

With how long you've been on here I'm surprised you're making that argument. I've already seen countless characters whos power was calaculated using real world physics equations. Is that not the norm here? Most fictional universes are assumed to follow IRL laws of physics except in instances that clearly show otherwise. For instance, we can assume the world of Infamous still has the fundamental physics of the real world. After all, they live on planet earth, there is clearly gravity, objects have mass and momentum, etc. Sure people can't shoot lighting in real life, but there's not actually a physical law that prevents that. If a person were to generate a powerful stream of electrons through some means, that's enough to create a lightning bolt. Physics allows this. Even the power of Infamous lightning attacks have been calculated by people on here.

Anyway, that's the meta. Therefore anything that strays too far from this meta is subject to greater scrutiny. And some fictional universes may simply be too incompatable. For instance, how the hell are you supposed to calaculate the power behind a magical flower petal or an etheral bone thing that somehow affects your soul? So to consider an electric man vs a magical skeleton, really it all just comes down to who has the bigger fandom, rather than coming to a viable conclusion based on rational thought. So because Infamous has more clearly defined rules and is more logical, that is grounds enough to say Kessler wins by default, or at the very least an inconclusive fight.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is dumb Greg. I don't mean it as an offense to you, I mean it as an offense to your argument.

First of all, yeah there are laws of ohysics that prevent people from shooting any kind of energy above tier 9.

Secondly, the idea that you cannot argue by a logical standpoint to who wins if the characters are impossible by real world physics is... I don't even know how to say it.


Stopderailing. A glasscanon with soul destruction vs someone that one-shots is a perfectly easy thing to argue. You saying UT characters are wanked, for which you could have some basis too if you used actual logic, is something you repeated at nauseum. Go make a content revision thread. It's rejected? There is probably a reason for it.

 

[Greg4581]

@Ricsi-viragosi

Seriously? We can't shoot anything beyond tier 9? Ever heard of nukes? That just so happens to be tier 7, and that's not even the limit. There are forces in this universe that easily go up to the cosmic level (tier 3). You can't even prove that it isn't possile to one day harnass such power through technology. But, I digress.

Let's get to the "glasscanon with soul destruction."

What makes you assume souls even exist in the Infamous universe? If Kessler has no soul then Sans can't even hurt him. What we do know however is that Sans can't even survive a simple knife wound despite being a skeleton and having no blood. Such a fight would be child's play for someone like Kessler.

So yeah, if that's all we're arguing about then it's easy to say who the winner is, thanks for keeping things simple.

 

[Andytrenom]

We had a discussion about this before. In a vs thread, you will be assumed to have a soul unless there's proof against it.

This way matchups become actually about the abilities and weakness of a character and not just about one verse never bringing up the idea of souls or similar elements.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not with your own, biological body, no.

Verse Equal for one, Sans killed a souless for two.

Make a crt. I'll ask peeps to delete derailment if this keeps going in.

 

[Schnee_One]

Kessler needs to prove he doesn't have a soul for it not to work.

 

[Jinsye]

@Schnee

About your passive 7-B shield

Sans' attacks are intanguble, does that help?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So from what I can tell, Kessler's only attack that is sure to land is his telekinesis, which he is quick to use, but not likely to use right off the bat unless Sans is out of range.

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Bump