Tokita Ohma Vs Tanjiro Kamado - 7/2 - GRACE

[Deceived3596]

Since i'm bored and that Tokita Ohma has received a recent upgrade i thought this match up might be good.

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SBA - Tokita is in his Omega Key and Tanjiro is in his Post-Hashira Training
Speed Equalized
AP for both
Tokita Ohma: 400 tons, Scaling Chain: Base Ohma = Lolong > Toa < Adamantine Kata
Tanjiro Kamado: 217.96 tons, Scaling Chain: Tanji > Akaza >>> Kaigaku ~ Zenitsu

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vs

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Tokita Ohma: LordGinSama, azontr, NotoriouSoda, LIFE_OF_KING, Harith0cell, ItalianGuy1234, Deceived

Tanjiro Kamado: Elixirr, speedster352

Knives Millions:

 

[LordGinSama]

Will post an in depth analysis of this later when I get out of work.

 

[speedster352]

I think sun breathing tanjiro will have a better chance

 

[LordGinSama]

Sun-Breathing is irrelevant since that's meant to counter Demons, which Ohma isn't.


Ohma is definitely taking this with mid difficulty at worst. Ohma takes the AP advantage, as Demon Slayer is only baseline 8-A albeit with up scaling. Ohma has more ways to increase his AP, various Niko Moves (Flashing Steel being a one shot move, on a comparable opponent to Ohma who could negate damage done to them.), Possessing Spirit, Endorphins, etc. With the Possessing Spirit being a 2 - 4x multiplier for all round stats.


Next is onto the category of skill, in which category Ohma is absolutely folding Tanjiro in. See-through World is impressive yes, however it's only impressive in its own verse. Ohma's Foresight and Information Analysis is comparable to Kuroki Gensai's who's Foresight is good enough to accurately predict and analyze Kanoh's Formless Style which is resistant to Analytical Prediction which scales above being able to predict up to 100+ moves. So See-through World's resistance is meaningless since Ohma's Prediction already has feats of overpowering a greater resistance, and on top of everything else Ohma himself has resistance to Analytical Prediction, in the form of the Niko Style and Demonsbane.



Ohma also has great counters to Breathing in general with moves such as Chi Blockage, which destroys the nervous system, bodily functions, etc. Ohma also tends to target organs such as the heart and lungs, all of which would greatly hamper Tanjiro, and a Chi Blockage would most likely flat out kill him.



Ohma can also decide to disarm Tanjiro of his sword via his insane grappling abilities and his vastly higher lifting strength. Ohma has also shown the ability to counter swordsman by depriving them of any space, thus canceling out sword range. Ohma can also fight at point blank range, and he can arguably copy Tanjiro's own Breathing based abilities since one of Niko Style Kata's is a Breathing based technique.




Ohma also dogs on Tanjiro in terms of endurance and stamina.

 

[speedster352]

Sun-Breathing is irrelevant since that's meant to counter Demons, which Ohma isn't.


Ohma is definitely taking this with mid difficulty at worst. Ohma takes the AP advantage, as Demon Slayer is only baseline 8-A albeit with up scaling. Ohma has more ways to increase his AP, various Niko Moves (Flashing Steel being a one shot move, on a comparable opponent to Ohma who could negate damage done to them.), Possessing Spirit, Endorphins, etc. With the Possessing Spirit being a 2 - 4x multiplier for all round stats.


Next is onto the category of skill, in which category Ohma is absolutely folding Tanjiro in. See-through World is impressive yes, however it's only impressive in its own verse. Ohma's Foresight and Information Analysis is comparable to Kuroki Gensai's who's Foresight is good enough to accurately predict and analyze Kanoh's Formless Style which is resistant to Analytical Prediction which scales above being able to predict up to 100+ moves. So See-through World's resistance is meaningless since Ohma's Prediction already has feats of overpowering a greater resistance, and on top of everything else Ohma himself has resistance to Analytical Prediction, in the form of the Niko Style and Demonsbane.



Ohma also has great counters to Breathing in general with moves such as Chi Blockage, which destroys the nervous system, bodily functions, etc. Ohma also tends to target organs such as the heart and lungs, all of which would greatly hamper Tanjiro, and a Chi Blockage would most likely flat out kill him.



Ohma can also decide to disarm Tanjiro of his sword via his insane grappling abilities and his vastly higher lifting strength. Ohma has also shown the ability to counter swordsman by depriving them of any space, thus canceling out sword range. Ohma can also fight at point blank range, and he can arguably copy Tanjiro's own Breathing based abilities since one of Niko Style Kata's is a Breathing based technique.




Ohma also dogs on Tanjiro in terms of endurance and stamina.

So this is a stomp then unless tanjiro key gets changed maybe demon king tanjiro will do better.

 

[LordGinSama]

How's it a stomp?

 

[speedster352]

How's it a stomp?

Tanjiro can’t do anything in this key that can help

 

[azontr]

Ohma folds Tanjiro, unfortunately, but it isn't a stomp, just really, really decisive.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Ohma for Gins reasons

 

[LordGinSama]

Why must people only play Devil's Advocate on controversial Matches?

 

[azontr]

Because ur mom gay.

 

[LordGinSama]

Because ur mom gay.

 

[azontr]

 

[Deceived3596]

 

[LordGinSama]

Any Demon Slayer fans wanna argue for Tanjiro here?

 

[azontr]

I'm a Demon Slayer fan

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Ohma beats up a child FRA

 

[Deceived3596]

Any Demon Slayer fans wanna argue for Tanjiro here?

I've asked @Elixirr to check out this thread so maybe he could make an argument for Tanjiro.

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Sun-Breathing is irrelevant since that's meant to counter Demons, which Ohma isn't.

Next is onto the category of skill, in which category Ohma is absolutely folding Tanjiro in. See-through World is impressive yes, however it's only impressive in its own verse. Ohma's Foresight and Information Analysis is comparable to Kuroki Gensai's who's Foresight is good enough to accurately predict and analyze Kanoh's Formless Style which is resistant to Analytical Prediction which scales above being able to predict up to 100+ moves. So See-through World's resistance is meaningless since Ohma's Prediction already has feats of overpowering a greater resistance, and on top of everything else Ohma himself has resistance to Analytical Prediction, in the form of the Niko Style and Demonsbane.

Ohma can also decide to disarm Tanjiro of his sword via his insane grappling abilities and his vastly higher lifting strength. he can arguably copy Tanjiro's own Breathing based abilities since one of Niko Style Kata's is a Breathing based technique.

Sun Breathing doesn't become automatically useless against anything other than demons and it is the strongest Breath Style that master swordsmen have failed to learn with them ultimately being forced to create weaker and less effective derivatives despite being directly teached by its creator Yoriichi even though he was effective enough as a teacher to help them in creating these derivatives, so that they fit their individual strengths. One of those master swordsmen being Kokushibo who even at the end of his life hasn't reached Yoriichi's level of swordsmanship despite having become immortal and having trained for centuries with the goal of doing so. While this doesn't mean that it will be something that Ohma can't deal with saying that it is irrelevant is very inaccurate especially since this is the style of swordsmanship Tanjiro will primarily be using against Ohma.

Being able to predict someone with Resistance to Analytical Prediction and having that sort of Resistance certainly sounds useful but See-Through World worked against Akaza who used a supernatural ability to predict movements that worked via detecting Battle Spirit which is a person's will to fight and had dedicated himself to training his martial arts for centuries. See-Through World makes it so that this Battle Spirit entirely vanishes and Akaza utterly failed to detect Tanjiro right behind him before Tanjiro straight up announced what he was going to do because of this despite having Extrasensory Perception. A user of See-Though World is capable of making predictions based on directly seeing an opponent's muscles and blood flow, so unless Ohma can directly control those things to confuse enemies or has feats of not being able to be predicted by someone who can do something similar he should still be predictable to some extent since being resistant against regular Analytical Prediction wouldn't be enough against something like that.

The calculation for Tanjiro's Class 25 Lifting Strength has a result of 17199 kg and the calculation for Ohma's Class 25 Lifting Strength has a result of 13045 kg, so unless Ohma uses the Advance Tanjiro is actually the one with the Lifting Strength advantage. Could you give more information about Ohma's breathing based technique? Ohma's profile only mentions him being able to hear and analyze an opponent's breathing, how he can make predictions based on that and that he can reliably hold his breath during 7 minutes of underwater shadow-boxing as far as I can tell.

Unless Ohma has extremely strong lungs with the ability to maintain a breathing pattern he isn't used to for a long period of time he is either not going to be able to copy Tanjiro's breathing or his copied version of it is going to be much less effective. I've already described the difficulties with learning Sun Breathing which is what Tanjiro will be using by default and this isn't even going into the difficulties of learning regular Total Concentration Breathing. Users of Total Concentration Breathing have been shown to train for months or even years for their level of proficiency with it and Tanjiro is a user of Total Concentration: Constant that requires to maintain the Total Concentration Breathing pattern during the entirety of the day and even in his sleep in order to boost its effects and be able to benefit from it the entire time. By the end of his training to master that specific technique his lungs were so strong that he could blow into a gourd about the size of a chair and destroy it even though it was explicitly stated to be more durable than a regular gourd. He did this in his second key using his less effective Water Breathing. There is also the fact that a person's compatibility with the different variants of Total Concentration Breathing can differ to the point where they can either not learn it or their version is much less effective which is the reason why derivatives exist. Compatibility with Tanjiro's Sun Breathing is so rare that only people that either lived 500 years before the events of Kimetsu no Yaiba in the Sengoku era or those who possessed records from that time were able to recognize Tanjiro as someone with the ability to use Sun Breathing.

Edit: I've just noticed that the OP specifies that Post-Hashira Training Tanjiro is used for this match but the points for See-Through World and Total Concentration Breathing should still be valid and Tanjiro will still primarily use Sun Breathing against an opponent like Ohma.

 

[Elixirr]

Ohma also dogs on Tanjiro in terms of endurance and stamina.

Pretty sure its the other way around. He trained for years on a mountain with oxygen levels lower than that underwater, trained 7 days non-stop without food, sleep, barely any water while still sustaining injuries, and is massively superior to Inosuke who hunted a demon for 3 days straight. And pain tolerance wise, Tanjiro should be comparable to Muichiro who managed to continue fighting despite losing his ******* lower half as well as Sanemi who fought with his internal organs on the verge of spilling out of his body

Next is onto the category of skill, in which category Ohma is absolutely folding Tanjiro in.

Tanjiro is comparable to Muzan who is massively above Kokushibo who honed his swordsmanship for 500 years who is massively above Akaza who was able to maul (not exaggeration) 67 adult swordsman when he was 18 without his demon powers and later continued to hone his skills for centuries who is massively above Gyutaro who managed to kill samurai when he was a kid and has similarly honed his skills for over a century.

See-through World is impressive yes, however it's only impressive in its own verse. Ohma's Foresight and Information Analysis is comparable to Kuroki Gensai's who's Foresight is good enough to accurately predict and analyze Kanoh's Formless Style which is resistant to Analytical Prediction which scales above being able to predict up to 100+ moves. So See-through World's resistance is meaningless since Ohma's Prediction already has feats of overpowering a greater resistance, and on top of everything else Ohma himself has resistance to Analytical Prediction, in the form of the Niko Style and Demonsbane.

You're forgetting the fact that stw has another ability which allows him to perceive the world around him in slow-motion, that's how he managed to blitz Akaza who was previously toying and constantly out-speeding him. That combined with other stat amps like waltz flash would pretty much allow Tanjiro to blitz him.

Prediction wise, Tanjiro has both his smell that tells him exactly where he is going to be hit up to 6 moves in advance and stw which allowed him to overpower Akaza who resisted his smell's analytical prediction who's own esp and precog allowed him to fight and predict movements while deaf and blind

Tanjiro also has parhelion rainbow and solar heat haze which induces illusionary afterimages, as well as advanced rpl which would make up for any sort of gap between them

 

[speedster352]

Tanjiro fra

 

[LordGinSama]

Pretty sure its the other way around. He trained for years on a mountain with oxygen levels lower than that underwater, trained 7 days non-stop without food, sleep, barely any water while still sustaining injuries, and is massively superior to Inosuke who hunted a demon for 3 days straight.

This really isn't all that impressive, given that Ohma's training with his Niko was essentially doing the same thing. Ohma trained non stop for over 10 days non stop, with weights on, no sleep or food against an opponent who was stronger than him and actively trying to kill him. Fighting for days in Kengan really isn't very impressive, people like Kanoh who Ohma should scale to can fight against multiple opponents to the death for at least a month.

And pain tolerance wise, Tanjiro should be comparable to Muichiro who managed to continue fighting despite losing his ******* lower half as well as Sanemi who fought with his internal organs on the verge of spilling out of his body.

Ohma can fight through having server organ damage, so the last part isn't really anything Ohma himself wouldn't be able to do. Getting slashed in half and surviving for a small amount of time isn't really impressive either as things like that happen in RL quite often.

Tanjiro is comparable to Muzan who is massively above Kokushibo who honed his swordsmanship for 500 years who is massively above Akaza.

Uhhhh well for starters, Koku can't be scaled to Akaza's martial arts. Koku isn't a hand to hand combatant, like you said he's a Swordsmen, not a martial artist. Also 500 years is nothing whenever Ohma has faced opponents who's style's having been crafted for over the course of 1000+ years plus, such as going toe to toe with the Kure Clan, and scaling above Rei who's the most skilled Mikazuchi member in the last 1000 years. Also scales to Raian who can humiliate people with the memories and skill of Wu Hei who's 5000+ years old.

who was able to maul (not exaggeration) 67 adult swordsman when he was 18 without his demon powers

Ohma in BoS humiliated a gang of 100+ Yakauza members without breaking a sweat.

and later continued to hone his skills for centuries.

This part is pretty vague, he definitely got more skilled but nothing we can legitimately quantify.

who is massively above Gyutaro who managed to kill samurai when he was a kid and has similarly honed his skills for over a century.

Ohma actually did the same thing as a kid which is funny lol.

You're forgetting the fact that stw has another ability which allows him to perceive the world around him in slow-motion, that's how he managed to blitz Akaza who was previously toying and constantly out-speeding him. That combined with other stat amps like waltz flash would pretty much allow Tanjiro to blitz him.

Nada, Ohma's already fought this type of ability in the past before. Kiryu's Fallen Demon also allows the user to view things in slow motion, so Ohma already has combat experience in dealing with that type of perception. Also Ohma himself has a crazy amount of amps via the Niko Style.

Prediction wise, Tanjiro has both his smell that tells him exactly where he is going to be hit up to 6 moves in advance.

6 moves is pretty fodder in comparison to 100+ moves in advance.

and stw which allowed him to overpower Akaza who resisted his smell's analytical prediction who's own esp and precog allowed him to fight and predict movements while deaf and blind.

Fighting while blind is something Ohma's done multiple times before, while being poisoned and having his senses of hearing messed with by the Medicine man and that was BoS Ohma. I'd say Akaza beating up Tanjiro is good but you forget, Ohma's resistance scales above being able to see 100+ moves ahead of time, not just 6 so his resistance isn't getting bypassed anytime soon.

Tanjiro also has parhelion rainbow and solar heat haze which induces illusionary afterimages, as well as advanced rpl which would make up for any sort of gap between them

Ohma also has both of these.

 

[LordGinSama]

Sun Breathing doesn't become automatically useless against anything other than demons and it is the strongest Breath Style that master swordsmen have failed to learn with them ultimately being forced to create weaker and less effective derivatives despite being directly teached by its creator Yoriichi even though he was effective enough as a teacher to help them in creating these derivatives, so that they fit their individual strengths. One of those master swordsmen being Kokushibo who even at the end of his life hasn't reached Yoriichi's level of swordsmanship despite having become immortal and having trained for centuries with the goal of doing so. While this doesn't mean that it will be something that Ohma can't deal with saying that it is irrelevant is very inaccurate especially since this is the style of swordsmanship Tanjiro will primarily be using against Ohma.

Which helps Tanjiro how exactly? That form of Breathing was specifically meant to counter and combat Demons, which Ohma obviously is not.

Being able to predict someone with Resistance to Analytical Prediction and having that sort of Resistance certainly sounds useful but See-Through World worked against Akaza who used a supernatural ability to predict movements that worked via detecting Battle Spirit which is a person's will to fight and had dedicated himself to training his martial arts for centuries.

Which still wouldn't work on Ohma's, as his resistance is derivative from a Prediction feat that vastly outdoes anything anyone in Demon Slayer has shown. His resistance scales massively above Kaneda's who can use his Foresight to see 100+ moves ahead instantly, higher levels of Foresight such as Gensai's can bypass resistances to Prediction that resist prediction thats 100+ moves ahead of time, and Ohma's is just the same as Gensai's. Higher levels of Foresight already base their predictions on the will and intention of the opponent.

See-Through World makes it so that this Battle Spirit entirely vanishes and Akaza utterly failed to detect Tanjiro right behind him before Tanjiro straight up announced what he was going to do because of this despite having Extrasensory Perception.

Because that prediction is based upon the sensing of intent / will. If the opponent has prediction that isn't based upon will or intent then the prediction would still work just as fine. There are other forms of Prediction after all, and one of which Ohma has is Mental Imaginary. He can fight hundreds to thousands of fights in his head to analyze and predict his opponent.

A user of See-Though World is capable of making predictions based on directly seeing an opponent's muscles and blood flow, so unless Ohma can directly control those things.

Luckily this is something Ohma actually can do and greatly excels at.

to confuse enemies or has feats of not being able to be predicted by someone who can do something similar he should still be predictable to some extent since being resistant against regular Analytical Prediction wouldn't be enough against something like that.

Issue being is that the form of Prediction that Ohma's shown resistance towards is already better than See-Through World's inherent levels of Prediction. The Muscle reading ability is nice and useful but Ohma has counters for it, such as Phantom Pace, Flame Kata moves, etc.

The calculation for Tanjiro's Class 25 Lifting Strength has a result of 17199 kg and the calculation for Ohma's Class 25 Lifting Strength has a result of 13045 kg, so unless Ohma uses the Advance Tanjiro is actually the one with the Lifting Strength advantage.

I'd say they're comparable tbh, Class 25 is from BoS Ohma who was drastically weakened due to a curse, now we're in Omega which is another series entirely so the amount of scaling Ohma's has is ridiculous. Also he uses the Advance pretty early into his fights.

Could you give more information about Ohma's breathing based technique? Ohma's profile only mentions him being able to hear and analyze an opponent's breathing, how he can make predictions based on that and that he can reliably hold his breath during 7 minutes of underwater shadow-boxing as far as I can tell.

Void Kata.

Unless Ohma has extremely strong lungs with the ability to maintain a breathing pattern he isn't used to for a long period of time he is either not going to be able to copy Tanjiro's breathing or his copied version of it is going to be much less effective.

Read above, him being able to shadow box underwater for 7 straight minutes, being able to live in the Inside (massive amount of air pollution makes it difficult to breathe there.) and the existence of the Void Kata should be enough.

I've already described the difficulties with learning Sun Breathing which is what Tanjiro will be using by default and this isn't even going into the difficulties of learning regular Total Concentration Breathing.

Ohma has Technique Mimicry to a stupid level, and Technique Mimicry isnt really something that exists in Demon Slayer so it should be fair game.

Users of Total Concentration Breathing have been shown to train for months or even years for their level of proficiency with it.

Ohma picked up abilities from someone with decades of marital art experience and training, Ohma copied his abilities just after seeing him use it once.

 

[LordGinSama]

Tanjiro fra

You are single handily the most inconsistent debater on the internet.

 

[Elixirr]

This really isn't all that impressive, given that Ohma's training with his Niko was essentially doing the same thing. Ohma trained non stop for over 10 days non stop, with weights on, no sleep or food against an opponent who was stronger than him and actively trying to kill him. Fighting for days in Kengan really isn't very impressive, people like Kanoh who Ohma should scale to can fight against multiple opponents to the death for at least a month.

Scans for these? I'm asking for them since they're not on his profile

Getting slashed in half and surviving for a small amount of time isn't really impressive either as things like that happen in RL quite often.

Number one, he actually survived for quite a bit of time, only dying when his arm was severed. Number two, the point made was pain tolerance like I mentioned, as Muichiro barely flinched after getting sliced in two.

Uhhhh well for starters, Koku can't be scaled to Akaza's martial arts. Koku isn't a hand to hand combatant, like you said he's a Swordsmen, not a martial artist. Also 500 years is nothing whenever Ohma has faced opponents who's style's having been crafted for over the course of 1000+ years plus, such as going toe to toe with the Kure Clan, and scaling above Rei who's the most skilled Mikazuchi member in the last 1000 years. Also scales to Raian who can humiliate people with the memories and skill of Wu Hei who's 5000+ years old.

Yes he can. Koku has defeated Akaza 3 times before, entailing that Koku's swordsmanship is above Akaza's martial arts prowess. Using styles that have been crafted for 1000+ years doesn't equate to an individual having 1000+ years of experience in that style. The scan for the Raian feat?

Kiryu's Fallen Demon also allows the user to view things in slow motion, so Ohma already has combat experience in dealing with that type of perception.

That's not what it says on his profile.

Ohma in BoS humiliated a gang of 100+ Yakauza members without breaking a sweat.

From what I can gather from his profile, Ohma is around 28 BoS, while Akaza was 18. Akaza expended extra energy mutilating 67 trained and seasoned adult swordsmen. Being generous, gang members are generally much less skilled than samurai trained specifically to fight.

6 moves is pretty fodder in comparison to 100+ moves in advance.

Scan for that?

Fighting while blind is something Ohma's done multiple times before, while being poisoned and having his senses of hearing messed with by the Medicine man and that was BoS Ohma.

I wouldn't say that's on the same level as Akaza's feat since he literally had no head and was relying on esp

Ohma also has both of these.

he doesn't have rpl unless I'm missing something

 

[Deceived3596]

You are single handily the most inconsistent debater on the internet.

 

[LordGinSama]

Scans for these? I'm asking for them since they're not on his profile.

Sure, Kengan profiles are ass right now.


Ohma's teacher wails on Ohma without holding back for 10 days straight.

Number one, he actually survived for quite a bit of time, only dying when his arm was severed. Number two, the point made was pain tolerance like I mentioned, as Muichiro barely flinched after getting sliced in two.

Unless Muichiro can secret endorphins 6x greater of that than Morphine I seriously doubt this isn't anything Ohma can't replicate.

Yes he can. Koku has defeated Akaza 3 times before, entailing that Koku's swordsmanship is above Akaza's martial arts prowess.

And have we ever seen them fight on screen? That doesn't mean that Koku's swordsmanship is above Akaza's martial arts prowess whenever Koku also has the edge in AP, speed, Demon Arts, etc.

Using styles that have been crafted for 1000+ years doesn't equate to an individual having 1000+ years of experience in that style.

Not quite, the Raishin style has existed for 1200 years, and in that time Rei has been the most skilled user of this style, being able to reach a state that nobody in the Mikazuchi clan has reached before.

The scan for the Raian feat?

Sure thing, Raian absolutely skill stomped the shit out of Alan Wu, who had the memories and personality of Wu Hei, essentially a monster who's been around for 5000 years.

That's not what it says on his profile.

It's on Kiryu's profile, why would it be on Ohma's?

From what I can gather from his profile, Ohma is around 28 BoS, while Akaza was 18.

Ohma's age isn't confirmed (thats from the anime so idk why its in there.)

Akaza expended extra energy mutilating 67 trained and seasoned adult swordsmen. Being generous, gang members are generally much less skilled than samurai trained specifically to fight.

Those weren't just average gang members, those were members of the Yakuza. Not to say that they're more skilled than samurai but to call them normal gang members is a far fetch.

Scan for that?

100+ moves ahead for fodder.

I wouldn't say that's on the same level as Akaza's feat since he literally had no head and was relying on esp.

Well the difference is that one has ESP via a supernatural ability and one has it via sheer skill.

he doesn't have rpl unless I'm missing something

He has Accelerated Development which is pretty interchangeable. As the match goes on, Ohma will only learn and develop more.

 

[Elixirr]

Luckily this is something Ohma actually can do and greatly excels at.

Ohma seems to only use this if his limbs were already broken or damaged, and muscle control doesn't really disrupt the effectiveness of stw, the precise manipulation of one's blood-flow does.

Ohma also has both of these.

I checked his page, his phantom pace (which I'm assuming is what you're referring to) is nothing compared solar heat haze, which makes it seem like the attack doesn't even touch him, and only reveals that it has landed a few seconds afterwards, even if the opponent moves away from the attack

Sure, Kengan profiles are ass right now.


Ohma's teacher wails on Ohma without holding back for 10 days straight.

Thank you.

From these scans, it does seem like Ohma did get rest as well as food, so this decreases the amount of stamina that he is expending during this training session, though the weights barely make up for it

Unless Muichiro can secret endorphins 6x greater of that than Morphine I seriously doubt this isn't anything Ohma can't replicate.

I'm going purely based on feats since this is difficult to quanify, has Ohma displayed a pain endurance feat similar to Mui's?

And have we ever seen them fight on screen? That doesn't mean that Koku's swordsmanship is above Akaza's martial arts prowess whenever Koku also has the edge in AP, speed, Demon Arts, etc.

No, it was stated. I'm pretty sure its blatantly obvious Koku is far far more skilled than Akaza. For one, Doma, who is weaker than Koku, stated that Akaza has no chance of beating them despite Akaza having trained for 113 years during their meeting.

Not quite, the Raishin style has existed for 1200 years, and in that time Rei has been the most skilled user of this style, being able to reach a state that nobody in the Mikazuchi clan has reached before.

Well, this still doesn't mean that its users have 1200 years of combat experience.

Sure thing, Raian absolutely skill stomped the shit out of Alan Wu, who had the memories and personality of Wu Hei, essentially a monster who's been around for 5000 years.

It states "5000 years ago" that he appeared, has Wu Hei managed to live from 5000 years ago to modern day?

It's on Kiryu's profile, why would it be on Ohma's?

Yes, I checked Kiryu's profile, and it stated "The technique allows him to react to his opponents more quickly, letting him dodge and counter attacks that would otherwise land. However, due to the drawbacks of the technique, and the fact Kiryu has used Fallen Demon too much, it causes Kiryu to hallucinate seeing Tokita Niko still alive and taking the form of other people (even though Niko is long dead)." Nothing that implies viewing the world around them in slow-motion, and the drawbacks seem to affect it too.

Those weren't just average gang members, those were members of the Yakuza. Not to say that they're more skilled than samurai but to call them normal gang members is a far fetch.

I didn't call nor think of them as normal. I said "Being generous" since I'm assuming that they are more skilled than the average untrained street thug.

100+ moves ahead for fodder.

This doesn't seem to be combat applicable since it states "a world-class shogi player", unless you have a scan of him using this ability in combat. Since if this were the case, all world-class shogi players irl would virtually be undefeatable

He has Accelerated Development which is pretty interchangeable. As the match goes on, Ohma will only learn and develop more.

Tanji's rpl is quite advanced, from being toyed with to being able to be a blitz above an opponent.

Tanji has a shit ton of stat amps too. tcb allows him to blitz demons that previously blitzed him, dance of the fire god allowed him to out-speed Rui who was previously toying with him, rage power allows him to perception blitz Daki who previously blitzed him and made fun of his speed, the mark allows him to blitz 3 of Hantengu's clones simultaneously that were previously toying with him, waltz flash allowed him blitz Hantengu and his clone after they constantly out-sped him, and finally stw that allowed him to out-speed Akaza who was constantly out-speeding him. Tanji would most likely be able to use all of these at the same time considering that he has done so with 4/6 of these twice

Ohma's precog wouldn't help if his opponent is simply much faster than he is. In other words, no matter how many moves Ohma can predict, he wouldn't be able to use that information for anything if he can't even react in time. Ohma's stat amps don't seem to be that impressive too, unless you substantiate

Tanji's genius intellect would be able to pick up how Ohma's attacks and abilities work mid-combat like he did with Akaza, Kyogai, Rui, Hantengu, Daki, Muzan, etc., and looking at Ohma's page, Tanji would probably keep dodging his attacks with acrobatics that allow him to dodge mid-air as well as danmaku attacks that deliver 100 blows everywhere at the same time, and play the long game when he uses advance until his heart fails

 

[LordGinSama]

Ohma seems to only use this if his limbs were already broken or damaged,

It's a apart of the Adamantine Kata, every attack done via Adamantine Kata directly involves the usage of that same type of body control.

and muscle control doesn't really disrupt the effectiveness of stw, the precise manipulation of one's blood-flow does.

Which he can do via the Advance.

I checked his page, his phantom pace (which I'm assuming is what you're referring to) is nothing compared solar heat haze, which makes it seem like the attack doesn't even touch him, and only reveals that it has landed a few seconds afterwards, even if the opponent moves away from the attack.

That's literally what Phantom Pace does, it makes you think that your attack has landed, which includes working on people with very potent forms of Prediction such as Lolong and Gensai.

Thank you.

Not a problem.

From these scans, it does seem like Ohma did get rest as well as food, so this decreases the amount of stamina that he is expending during this training session, though the weights barely make up for it.

Not really, Niko is a dick who will attack Ohma again after about 4 minutes of "rest." and Ohma actually didn't eat anything aside from one bug.

I'm going purely based on feats since this is difficult to quanify, has Ohma displayed a pain endurance feat similar to Mui's?

Ohma has never been cut in half before, however he does kinda shut off pain in general. His best feats would be dealing with the costs of abusing the Advance for years on end, which included major long term damage to all of his internal organs.

No, it was stated. I'm pretty sure its blatantly obvious Koku is far far more skilled than Akaza. For one, Doma, who is weaker than Koku, stated that Akaza has no chance of beating them despite Akaza having trained for 113 years during their meeting.

Fair enough I suppose.

Well, this still doesn't mean that its users have 1200 years of combat experience.

Yeah, it's actually even better since within those 1200 years of the clans existence Rei was the only one to be able to reach that state.

It states "5000 years ago" that he appeared, has Wu Hei managed to live from 5000 years ago to modern day?

Yes via Brain Washing, Wu Hei is dead but his memories and personality have been passed onto a select few.

Yes, I checked Kiryu's profile, and it stated "The technique allows him to react to his opponents more quickly, letting him dodge and counter attacks that would otherwise land. However, due to the drawbacks of the technique, and the fact Kiryu has used Fallen Demon too much, it causes Kiryu to hallucinate seeing Tokita Niko still alive and taking the form of other people (even though Niko is long dead)." Nothing that implies viewing the world around them in slow-motion, and the drawbacks seem to affect it too.

Here.

Berserk Mode and Perception Manipulation (Capable of slowing down his perception of time, increase his strength and speed and become berserk with Fallen Demon).


you just missed it is all.

I didn't call nor think of them as normal. I said "Being generous" since I'm assuming that they are more skilled than the average untrained street thug.

Fair enough.

This doesn't seem to be combat applicable since it says "a world-class shogi player", unless you have a scan of his using this ability in combat. Since if this were the case, all world-class shogi players irl would virtually be undefeatable.

Read the line again, he uses it for fights as he views the fight the same way he would with a shogi match. That's entirely different, IRL Shogi players don't have Foresight so that's a bad comparison to make.

Tanji's rpl is quite advanced, from being toyed with to being able to be a blitz above an opponent.

Ohma's is also pretty stupid, as he went from being a upper lower tier in the Tournament to fighting against people who are FANG level, who previously blitzed Ohma and one shot him.

Tanji has a shit ton of stat amps too. tcb allows him to blitz demons that previously blitzed him, dance of the fire god allowed him to out-speed Rui who was previously toying with him, rage power allows him to perception blitz Daki who previously blitzed him and made fun of his speed, the mark allows him to blitz 3 of Hantengu's clones simultaneously that were previously toying with him, waltz flash allowed him blitz Hantengu and his clone after they constantly out-sped him, and finally stw that allowed him to out-speed Akaza who was constantly out-speeding him. Tanji would most likely be able to use all of these at the same time considering that he has done so with 4/6 of these on a whim twice.

Which I fail to see how that's better than let's day, the Advance which increases all stats from 2x - 4x times? There's the Flame Kata, which is capable of blitzing comparable opponents such as Inaba, Rihito, etc, and the Flame Kata can be combined with things such as the Water Kata which increases his speed even further while giving him unpredictable attacks.


Keep in mind he can also now use all the Kata's while using the Advance.

Ohma's precog wouldn't help if his opponent is simply much faster than he is.

Kiryu would like to differ, Kiryu was the much faster opponent out of the two and Ohma still kept up fine. Also his Foresight scales to Gensai's, who's Foresight allowed him to keep up with Rei who was blitzing him along with the other fighters on the block.


The entire point of Foresight in Kengan is to overcome speed advantages.

In other words, no matter how many moves Ohma can predict, he wouldn't be able to use that information for anything if he can't even react in time. Ohma's stat amps don't seem to be that impressive too, unless you substantiate.

Read above, Flame Kata moves can blitz comparable opponents, his Foresight can already react to things that can blitz him and his Advance has stated multipliers unlike Tanjiro's amps.

Tanji's genius intellect would be able to pick up how Ohma's attacks and abilities work mid-combat like he did with Akaza, Kyogai, Rui, Hantengu, Daki, Muzan, etc.,

Ohma would absolutely fold any of them in a hand to hand fight so i really doubt Tanjiro is gonna find counters to Ohma's arsenal whenever Ohma can do the same thing to a greater degree. Ohma would hear Tanjiro's Breathing, realize that his abilities come from his lungs and use a Chi Blockage to counter.

And Tanjiro definitely isn't figuring out a counter for Ohma's Demonsbane.

and looking at Ohma's page, Tanji would probably keep dodging his attacks with acrobatics that allow him to dodge mid-air as well as danmaku attacks that deliver 100 blows everywhere at the same time, and play the long game when he uses advance until his heart fails

If Tanjiro runs, Ohma would close the distance again, alternatively he can force Tanjiro to stay in Meele Range via Silhouette and his point blank fighting style, he wouldn't give Tanjiro the chance to run. His Acrobatics are definitely good but we already have people with similar levels of Acrobatics in the form or Ryuki and Setsuna. Also the Advance would only kill Ohma if he used it for years on end.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Which helps Tanjiro how exactly? That form of Breathing was specifically meant to counter and combat Demons, which Ohma obviously is not.

Which still wouldn't work on Ohma's, as his resistance is derivative from a Prediction feat that vastly outdoes anything anyone in Demon Slayer has shown. His resistance scales massively above Kaneda's who can use his Foresight to see 100+ moves ahead instantly, higher levels of Foresight such as Gensai's can bypass resistances to Prediction that resist prediction thats 100+ moves ahead of time, and Ohma's is just the same as Gensai's. Higher levels of Foresight already base their predictions on the will and intention of the opponent.
Because that prediction is based upon the sensing of intent / will. If the opponent has prediction that isn't based upon will or intent then the prediction would still work just as fine. There are other forms of Prediction after all, and one of which Ohma has is Mental Imaginary. He can fight hundreds to thousands of fights in his head to analyze and predict his opponent.

Luckily this is something Ohma actually can do and greatly excels at.
Issue being is that the form of Prediction that Ohma's shown resistance towards is already better than See-Through World's inherent levels of Prediction. The Muscle reading ability is nice and useful but Ohma has counters for it, such as Phantom Pace, Flame Kata moves, etc.

I'd say they're comparable tbh, Class 25 is from BoS Ohma who was drastically weakened due to a curse, now we're in Omega which is another series entirely so the amount of scaling Ohma's has is ridiculous. Also he uses the Advance pretty early into his fights.

Void Kata.
Read above, him being able to shadow box underwater for 7 straight minutes, being able to live in the Inside (massive amount of air pollution makes it difficult to breathe there.) and the existence of the Void Kata should be enough.

Ohma has Technique Mimicry to a stupid level, and Technique Mimicry isnt really something that exists in Demon Slayer so it should be fair game.
Ohma picked up abilities from someone with decades of marital art experience and training, Ohma copied his abilities just after seeing him use it once.

Sun Breathing isn't merely Tanjiro breathing and becoming suddenly more effective against demons, it's him breathing in a way that strengthens his body and him utilizing a form of swordsmanship alongside that and that is perfectly applicable against other humans. The only aspect of Sun Breathing Tanjiro can't use against Ohma is the Regeneration Nullification since Ohma doesn't have Regeneration and he would also most likely refrain from decapitating Ohma due to his personality. It's also noteworthy that it boosts his body more than his Water Breathing does.

The level of prediction and the resistance against it from Ohma's series does seem to be a lot higher but this isn't everything there is to See-Through World and the aspects it does share with these things work differently. Ohma's Resistance against Analytical Prediction that is listed on his profile only covers movements but See-Through World's prediction also makes use of muscles and blood flow with these things being directly visible to the user which should at the very least be relevant at the beginning of the fight where Ohma wouldn't have had an opportunity to figure that out yet.
I guess Ohma can predict Tanjiro's movements if he can calculate trajectories and figure out the timing and Foresight does seem like something that could deal with the difficulties something like See-Through World poses. Ohma is still going to have a harder time with making use of things like Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception against Tanjiro though though that might not actually be a very relevant aspect of this match.

Yeah, his Body Control is something that I've already noticed on his profile and I was curious if he could use it for a purpose like that. I'm not sure why I can't find anything about this Bone Consumption technique on the profile though. His Body Control does seem to cover muscles and his ability to control his heart rate should allow him a sufficient amount of influence over his blood flow. The muscle control appears to be for the purposes of supporting his regular movements in the case his bones get broken and for loosening his joints to increase his range, so figuring out just how to use these skills to confuse someone who uses the controlled muscles for predictions might be tricky but should be doable. The manipulation of the heart rate appears to be from the Advance which does put a certain strain on Ohma, so Ohma will have to resort to that right away if he doesn't want to get predicted. If he does use it early in the fight and avoids using it too long, it can probably work out for him.

That seems like something that should be mentioned on his profile.

The Void Kata seems like yet another thing that isn't mentioned on the profile but I'll work with what I can get. Is the breathing pattern of the Void Kata painful to maintain and something that Ohma can do the entire day and even in his sleep? If the former isn't the case, then it's already less taxing on the lungs than baseline Total Concentration Breathing that is described as being painful to perform in bursts. If the latter isn't the case, then there is no way for Ohma to use Total Concentration Breathing on a level that matches Total Concentration: Constant. I'd also like to note that despite Tanjiro being able to use Total Concentration Breathing he was intially completely incapable of using Total Concentration: Constant due to his lungs being too weak, so unless Ohma can exhale with a force that can destroy extra durable gourds if he blows into them he is not going to be able to use Total Concentration: Constant.

While the lack of Technique Mimicry in the series means that there are no feats for techniques being hard to copy or imitate for someone with the ability this doesn't detract from the inherent requirements and challenges of learning Total Concentration Breathing or even Sun Breathing especially if we want to avoid a No Limits Fallacy here. There are people like Genya who are outright incapable of learning Total Concentration Breathing due to being just that incompatible with it though that seems to be rather rare and there is also the matter if Ohma would be compatible enough with Water Breathing and Sun Breathing in order to perform at the same level as Tanjiro. The former is the most common Breath Style due to being the easiest to learn, so he can probably do that if he can manage to do Total Concentration Breathing but he is absolutely not going to copy Sun Breathing since absolutely nobody outside of Yoriichi and Tanjiro's family was ever able to learn it regardless of how hard they tried or how skilled they were. He can't copy it if he inherently lacks the ability to learn it in the first place and if he can't copy Sun Breathing, then any abilities related to Total Concentration Breathing he might or might not copy from Tanjiro are going to be inferior since Sun Breathing is better than all other breathing related abilities Tanjiro has.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

He has Accelerated Development which is pretty interchangeable. As the match goes on, Ohma will only learn and develop more.

Regarding this, it might be noteworthy to mention that Tanjiro has Accelerated Development on top of his Reactive Power Level.

 

[speedster352]

Regarding this, it might be noteworthy to mention that Tanjiro has Accelerated Development on top of his Reactive Power Level.

And rage power and resistance to precognition and sensory with stw

 

[LordGinSama]

And rage power and resistance to precognition and sensory with stw

We literally just went over how Ohma's Prediction is >>> StW's resistance.


Like dude seriously do you ever bother reading?

 

[speedster352]

We literally just went over how Ohma's Prediction is >>> StW's resistance.


Like dude seriously do you ever bother reading?

Tanjiro resistance is layered

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Tanjiro resistance is layered

Tanjiro resistance is layered

You don't need to make that comment twice.

 

[speedster352]

You don't need to make that comment twice.

Sorry it double sent for some reason

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Sorry it double sent for some reason

I guess that can happen.

 

[LordGinSama]

Sun Breathing isn't merely Tanjiro breathing and becoming suddenly more effective against demons, it's him breathing in a way that strengthens his body and him utilizing a form of swordsmanship alongside that and that is prefectly applicable against other humans. The only aspect of Sun Breathing Tanjiro can't use against Ohma is the Regeneration Nullification since Ohma doesn't have Regeneration and he would also most likely refrain from decapitating Ohma due to his personality. It's also noteworthy that it boosts his body more than his Water Breathing does.

Fair enough.

The level of prediction and the resistance against it from Ohma's series does seem to be a lot higher but this isn't everything there is to See-Through World and the aspects it does share with these things work differently. Ohma's Resistance against Analytical Prediction that is listed on his profile only covers movements but See-Through World's prediction also makes use of muscles and blood flow

Muscle reading based movement is already a thing in Kengan which is set for lower levels of Foresight in the verse, however nobody atm can see Muscles themselves.

with these things being directly visible to the user which should at the very least be relevant at the beginning of the fight where Ohma wouldn't have had an opportunity to figure that out yet.

Agreed.

I guess Ohma can predict Tanjiro's movements if he can calculate trajectories and figure out the timing and Foresight does seem like something that could deal with the difficulties something like See-Through World poses. Ohma is still going to have a harder time with making use of things like Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception against Tanjiro though though that might not actually be a very relevant aspect of this match.

I can agree with ESP not being very relevant here, although Ohma's is based upon Kinetic Vision and the Flow of Power, both of which aren't tied to Will or intent which is what StW counters.

Yeah, his Body Control is something that I've already noticed on his profile and I was curious if he could use it for a purpose like that. I'm not sure why I can't find anything abot this Bone Consumption technique on the profile though.

Because it's from the new series Omega, they still need to be updated.

That seems like something that should be mentioned on his profile.

Which part?

The Void Kata seems like yet another thing that isn't mentioned on the profile but I'll work with what I can get. Is the breathing pattern of the Void Kata painful to maintain and something that Ohma can do the entire day and even in his sleep? If the former isn't the case, then it's already less taxing on the lungs than baseline Total Concentration Breathing that is described as being painful to perform in bursts. If the latter isn't the case, then there is no way for Ohma to use Total Concentration Breathing on a level that matches Total Concentration: Constant. I'd also like to note that despite Tanjiro being able to use Total Concentration Breathing he was intially completely incapable of using Total Concentration: Constant due to his lungs being too weak, so unless Ohma can exhale with a force that can destroy extra durable gourds if he blows into them he is not going to be able to use Total Concentration: Constant.

I can get into this in a bit, I'd need to reread the chapter.

Tanjiro resistance is layered

Which again, is irrelevant as Ohma's Resistance is already far and above said layers. Ohma's Resistance is above 100 moves ahead of time, Tanjiro's scales to 6 and that's what his resistance scales to.


Now I'll wait here for you to change your argument 19 different times within the span of 5 minutes.

 

[Elixirr]

Which he can do via the Advance.

How precise is his blood flow manipulation? Gyomei massively upscales from mugen train arc Tanji who managed to control his blood flow to the point he basically healed himself.

That's literally what Phantom Pace does, it makes you think that your attack has landed, which includes working on people with very potent forms of Prediction such as Lolong and Gensai.

Alright, they seem comparable enough.

Not really, Niko is a dick who will attack Ohma again after about 4 minutes of "rest." and Ohma actually didn't eat anything aside from one bug.

Same can be said for Tanji, except that he was not fed at all during that period. Tanji also had pillar training on top of this, meaning his stamin would be greatly increased from then.

Ohma has never been cut in half before, however he does kinda shut off pain in general. His best feats would be dealing with the costs of abusing the Advance for years on end, which included major long term damage to all of his internal organs.

Is it fine it I give it to Muichiro and hence Tanjiro, then?

Yes via Brain Washing, Wu Hei is dead but his memories and personality have been passed onto a select few.

Has those who inherited Wu Hei's personality and memories been stated to possess skills comparable to him? Still, this wouldn't entail that Wu Hei has 5000 years worth of skill. How old was he before his death? That would be a meaningful way of gauging his skill.

Here.

Berserk Mode and Perception Manipulation (Capable of slowing down his perception of time, increase his strength and speed and become berserk with Fallen Demon).


you just missed it is all.

Alright, thanks. I suggest these be added to his profile honestly, since its a pain in the ass for both parties. Regarding the scan, is there a way for you to quantify how slow is slow exactly? For stw, it allowed Tanji go from being constantly out-sped to a blitz above Akaza. Also, it states that he can't use it at will, which would affect Ohma's ability to properly counter it since Tanji can use it whenever he wants.

Read the line again, he uses it for fights as he views the fight the same way he would with a shogi match. That's entirely different, IRL Shogi players don't have Foresight so that's a bad comparison to make.

The scan you provided doesn't look like he's predicting 100+ moves into the future, even his profile states that its 7 steps, which is comparable to Tanji's enhanced smell. That combined with stw and genius intellect should be able to put him above Ohma's resistance and precog

Ohma's is also pretty stupid, as he went from being a upper lower tier in the Tournament to fighting against people who are FANG level, who previously blitzed Ohma and one shot him.

Alright.

Kiryu would like to differ, Kiryu was the much faster opponent out of the two and Ohma still kept up fine. Also his Foresight scales to Gensai's, who's Foresight allowed him to keep up with Rei who was blitzing him along with the other fighters on the block.


The entire point of Foresight in Kengan is to overcome speed advantages.

Well, in verse the only way to counter precog abilities is by either having the same precog ability or being faster. And this isn't a regular speed gap as the amount of amps Tanji can use at once can put him up to 6 blitzes above Ohma.

Ohma would absolutely fold any of them in a hand to hand fight so i really doubt Tanjiro is gonna find counters to Ohma's arsenal whenever Ohma can do the same thing to a greater degree. Ohma would hear Tanjiro's Breathing, realize that his abilities come from his lungs and use a Chi Blockage to counter.

I wouldn't say so for Akaza who arguable has comparable or more skill due to sheer experience and prodigious ability. And Tanji managed to come up with a counter for that using his subtle words and actions whilst in combat, even from months before where he only met Akaza and never actually fought him

And Tanjiro definitely isn't figuring out a counter for Ohma's Demonsbane.

Same can be said for Tanji figuring out Ohma's abilities. He has already shown the capability to decipher abilities of individuals more powerful and experienced than himself even in mid-battle.