[Toaru] Othinus tiering revisions

[Churronzon]

hi
Two things should be done regarding Othinus' tiering:

1. Remove the word "likely" from her first key's High 1-C rating.
2. Stop scaling her reality warping to her physicals. (Downgrade her 2nd key physicals from High 1-C to Planet level)

Spoiler: Explaining goal 1

It's not likely that she has that power; she just straight up always did. The caveat is that every action she performs only has a 50% chance of succeeding and failing and taking a form of backlash. Every supporter already knows and agrees she doesn't get any stronger with Gungnir; all it does is unify her possibilities that previously restricted her. In her 50/50 state, she explicitly has the power to either destroy the world or lose to a child:

“Infinite possibilities sounds good, but that gives you both the possibility of success and
the possibility of failure. I suppose it’s something like matter and antimatter. For
everything, you must hold the possibility for success and the possibility for failure. No
matter how much power you gather, you have a 50/50 chance. If you think of it like
Russian roulette, it’s like taking a shot with three bullets loaded. Let’s be honest, Othinus.
While you possess the power to destroy the world, you also have a fifty percent chance
of losing to a child in a game of rock-paper-scissors. It’s almost a miracle that Kamijou
Touma has lost twice. His misfortune must really be something. But given this condition,
you cannot just wield your full power at random. You want to find a way to control those
possibilities. Wanting to increase your possibilities for victory is natural, but when your
possibilities for failure increase too, you need to find some way of dealing with that. 50/50
is the most troublesome of all.”

-Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 4 Profound Destruction

Her new justification would go from this:

likely High Complex Multiverse level via 50/50 reality warping (Most likely just as strong as her fully powered self,[3] but only has a 50% chance of success and a 50% chance of it backfiring[3][13][33][34][35])

to this:

High Complex Multiverse level via 50/50 reality warping (Just as strong as her later self when she unifies her possibilities to 100% success,[3] but in this form she only has a 50% chance of success and a 50% chance of it backfiring[3][13][33][34][35])

It's funny that her range isn't stated as being "likely" High 1-C. It's just flat out already concluded to be as such.

Goal 2: Since there's no difference between the amount of power she can wield whether she has Gungnir or not, her tiering should not be at all different between the first two keys. Either she is physically High 1-C in both or Planet level in both, with the only difference being her weakness that she can only succeed 50% of the time in her first key. Planet level would be consistent with Nephthys' 3rd key which currently has High 1-C reality warping with planet level physicals and Alice is soon™ to be revised in the same exact way. Planet level Ollerus and Fiamma were also used in the story to threaten/oppose Othinus (although they were unsuccessful).

Perhaps more importantly, I don't think there's a standard implemented on-site for having reality warping scaling to physicals to begin with.

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Sandbox

Agree: DarkDragonMedeus, ActuallySpaceMan42
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[XDragnoir]

I am nearly 100% sure we're supposed to keep the number of CRTs ongoing for each verse limited to 3, while this one is probably the fifth (just Alice has 2 ongoing CRTs).

 

[Churronzon]

I am nearly 100% sure we're supposed to keep the number of CRTs ongoing for each verse limited to 3, while this one is probably the fifth (just Alice has 2 ongoing CRTs).

I'm letting my Alice one die. I'll request a lock on it if necessary.

None of the CRTs have any traction so they're not clogging anything

 

[Doggo]

Does this now make her a smurf via reality warping? Considering she is only 5B physically

 

[XDragnoir]

Yes

 

[Doggo]

Yes

Hope she becomes part of the top 10

Anyway, does this apply to the other MGs?

 

[XDragnoir]

Hope she becomes part of the top 10

Anyway, does this apply to the other MGs?

It doesn't.

 

[Churronzon]

bump

 

[Churronzon]

Does anyone know if there's a page that outlines prerequisites for reality warping scaling to physicals?
Kinda hard to argue against something that isn't properly defined or justified to begin with

Feels like proving a negative

 

[XDragnoir]

Does anyone know if there's a page that outlines prerequisites for reality warping scaling to physicals?
Kinda hard to argue against something that isn't properly defined or justified to begin with

Feels like proving a negative

I don't think such a thing exist, closest I can think of is the stabilization feats page which doesn't really apply here.

Anyway, why do you need that, tho? There's nothing really supporting Othinus's striking strength to scale to H1C to my knowledge, only remaining H1C AP should be Throwing Gungnir.

 

[Churronzon]

Anyway, why do you need that, tho?

Why would I need to know if standards exist? Because I'm not biased and am exploring every angle and don't know the ins and outs of every powerscaling rule. I keep an open mind to potential rebuttals and expect pushback on this CRT so I'm looking to see how it got implemented/accepted to begin with and if there's other cases to compare it to. If she met the criteria for scaling to her reality warping somehow, I'd propose that instead.

There's nothing really supporting Othinus's striking strength to scale to H1C to my knowledge, only remaining H1C AP should be Throwing Gungnir.

If it's that straightforward then maybe I'm overthinking it.

 

[XDragnoir]

I'm looking to see how it got implemented/accepted to begin with and if there's other cases to compare it to. If she met the criteria for scaling to her reality warping somehow, I'd propose that instead

I am pretty sure her profile has been that way since the start, I really doubt there was any kind of debate if she should be index that way.

If it's that straightforward then maybe I'm overthinking it.

Yeah, you're overthinking it.

 

[Churronzon]

bump

 

[Churronzon]

bump

 

[Churronzon]

numo

 

[Churronzon]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose this makes sense.

 

[Piamma]

If you're trying to scale it to a planetary level just because of her crossbow, that is a very mistaken approach. The crossbow has a planetary range, but its power or destructive force is not a planet.

 

[Churronzon]

I actually did not mention the crossbow arrow that obliterated her body

 

[Piamma]

I actually did not mention the crossbow arrow that obliterated her body

Therefore, I would like to point out that limiting it to a planetary scale is not very meaningful. Honestly, 'unknown' would be more accurate, wouldn't it?"

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I don't know the verse, but I suppose this makes sense.