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[Toaru] Infinite speed Magic Gods

I will say that it should be noted that fighting them in that non existent place means that speed isn't the only thing needed to reach them. That should stay in speed as it is now to not confuse people who read it.
 
No, the Hidden World is distanceless realm, so the speed is undefined.
 
Moving in a space-timeless void isn't enough for immeasurable speed anymore, but this is a solid justification for infinite speed at least, since its infinite in "size" and they can move through the whole distance casually
 
Aseka said:
No, the Hidden World is distanceless realm, so the speed is undefined.
Click to expand...
Prove it. If it really has no distance then it wouldn't get Infinite the same way like how we treat Timeless Void on the wiki.
 
Last edited:
About time. I always found it weird that this verse is 11D yet only has Sub-Rel+ top tiers (I know there's the attack speed shenanigans but that's not the point)
 
Robo432343 said:
This is not infinite speed this is immeasurable speed

because the concepts of distance and time don't matter and the speed formula cannot be applied
Click to expand...
I think this explains it.
vsbattles.com

About Timeless Voids/immeasurable

A specific Timeless voids stantard always bothered me, its time to make some changes. Currently timeless voids isnt valid to give speed buff to immeasurable so, i proposing some changes to it. Timeless Voids should allow for speed upgrade to immeasurable. And a case by case scalling on this...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
I'm disagree with this, sorry blud. Timeless Void yeah, distanceless ≠ undefined. I dont know what you on.
 
Valxxroyz said:
Maybe, you should learn from Acheron cases. That's how unbound in the context of  SPEED works.
Click to expand...
Eh, more like Sirin though instead of Acheron, we're derailing already so maybe just keep it down to one reply (You can edit your reply and add it there I guess).

But yeah, the main point is the Timeless Void, if the concept of distance really doesn't exist then it's not Infinite.
 
VoidGoji said:
since its infinite in "size" and they can move through the whole distance casually
Click to expand...
Well, narration stated it's infinite because it's basically nothing at there, no distance meant the slightest gap become infinite distance.
 
Voidnether said:
Prove it. If it really has no distance then it wouldn't get Infinite the same way like how we treat Timeless Void on the wiki.
Click to expand...
Because it's a nonexistent place, and to detect it requires Aleister to converting nonexistent coordinates into a decimal ones. It's basically a void realm, supported by Niang-Niang statement that says space and time doesn't matter there, and slightest gap become infinite, implying a void is same wherever you go.
 
Voidnether said:
But yeah, the main point is the Timeless Void, if the concept of distance really doesn't exist then it's not Infinite.
Click to expand...
If distance doesn't exist, I'd agree. However, it's mentioned twice that it does.
I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”

[...]

It's just in destiny’s hands whether we run across
each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”
Click to expand...
It's indicating distance does exist, but it's doesn't have a specific value which makes sense since it goes on eternally.

If there was no distance, they'd be in contact with each other at all times, which they aren't.
Aseka said:
implying a void is same wherever you go.
Click to expand...
Other than the entire 'place' being empty, it isn't since they can be separated from one another. It's not a black hole where all directions go to the center.
 
Churronzon said:
Other than the entire 'place' being empty, it isn't since they can be separated from one another. It's not a black hole where all directions go to the center.
Click to expand...
I don't say it's black hole, it's just a void, of course you can be separated although in an unconventional sense. They rely on destiny hands, which they can alter with their power.
 
I personally agree with the Infinite Speed proposal, as it's clearly spelled out in the scan. The fact that they can traverse something explicitly described as "the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance" makes this pretty clear cut IMO.
 
Axscell said:
The fact that they can traverse something explicitly described as "the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance" makes this pretty clear cut IMO.
Click to expand...
It's the reason why they rely on Fate Manipulation like destiny's hands to meet, because it's a world of void, doesn't have a distance that makes something like tiniest gap extends to infinite distance.
 
If, that is really a literal infinite distance, and they can traverse it, they wouldn't resort to fate in the first place.
 
Aseka said:
If, that is really a literal infinite distance, and they can traverse it, they wouldn't resort to fate in the first place.
Click to expand...
That they rely on fate to navigate may well be the case, but it doesn't necessarily contradict the idea of the distances being infinite. The Hidden World evidently does have distance, as they continually proceed to describe distances within it. It's just that the concept of distance as we know it (being a measurable value) doesn't exist in the Hidden World. With the tiniest gaps extending to infinity, the traditional valuations of measurement become meaningless, hence Niang-Niang's quote of time and distance being meaningless.
 
I agree with Axscell. The distance is infinite due to any gap being infinite and cannot be measured since it works in a weird way. They do need Fate Manip too meet each other. Being able to cross that distance doesn't mean they know where are the others.
 
Axscell said:
With the tiniest gaps extending to infinity, the traditional valuations of measurement become meaningless, hence Niang-Niang's quote of time and distance being meaningless.
Click to expand...
So why that place described like a void then, even it's coordinate is non-existent in a sense? We know that being a void is meant the distance is doesn't exist. It's Aleister himself said that there's no coordinate in the Hidden World, meaning there's no dimensional axis whatsoever.
 
Aseka said:
So why that place described like a void then, even it's coordinate is non-existent in a sense? We know that being a void is meant the distance is doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
I think your confusion stems from your insistence on strictly defining it as a void. The simple truth is that that term was never at any point used to describe the Hidden World. One could even argue that the hidden world itself is what exists in a void, seeing as it's a phase outside of what is considered "the world" in Toaru. So I don't think trying to argue that the hidden world doesn't have distances because it should follow the conventions of what is normally considered a void really works tbh.

Aseka said:
It's Aleister himself said that there's no coordinate in the Hidden World, meaning there's no dimensional axis whatsoever.
Click to expand...
The Hidden World certainly does seem to have no set/defined dimensional axes, as the quotes indicate. But from what I gather, that just makes it a non-euclidian space with rather exotic properties. Doesn't really mean that there is no distance. Just that it's expressed in a very different way. The very fact that the Magic Gods have to "move" to meet one another and aren't in constant contact with each other is proof of it having some concept of distance, no matter how strange.

The hoarse voice went on to speak a somehow nostalgic name.

"Aleister Crowley the Human."

This magician had silver hair that reached his ankles and wore a green hospital gown. That human looked both male and female, both childlike and aged, and both saintly and sinful. His expression as he answered could have been interpreted as any number of emotions.

"Letting Othinus run free would have been a problem, but I left that to the strength of the world. The world was temporarily led to destruction as a result, but I still had to prioritize this. It wasn't easy converting coordinates filled with non-existent numbers into decimal."
Click to expand...
This quote about the hidden world having coordinates made up of non-existent numbers, taken along with the other stuff that we know about the Hidden World, does raise a few interesting questions and could make for some interesting discussion, but that's a discussion for another day/thread.
 
Axscell said:
This quote about the hidden world having coordinates made up of non-existent numbers, taken along with the other stuff that we know about the Hidden World, does raise a few interesting questions and could make for some interesting discussion, but that's a discussion for another day/thread.
Click to expand...
But even then, how can we scale it to other characters? We know that Aleister fought them and from there, Aleister scales to many characters.
 
Aseka said:
But even then, how can we scale it to other characters? We know that Aleister fought them and from there, Aleister scales to many characters.
Click to expand...
He had prep time for blasting rod amps. That does not scale to anyone i think.
 
Aseka said:
But even then, how can we scale it to other characters? We know that Aleister fought them and from there, Aleister scales to many characters.
Click to expand...
Aleister is ~human level without amps and can't dodge Touma's fist. He can't even keep up with a Saint's speed without a blood sacrifice amp. How would anyone scale off Aleister?
“Is it that strange that I can easily stop your supersonic attacks when I could not even
dodge Kamijou Touma’s fist? There is an answer to your question. If you have any thought
left in your heads, then enjoy figuring it out. That is the greatest luxury of human life.”
Click to expand...
 
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