Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[XDragnoir]

Can we admit Aleister, Niang-Niang, and Coronzon have fate manipulation from actual sparks yet?

Coronzon is the only one of the 3 that brings up the destiny part as being included in their spell, the other 2 don't do more than releasing the sparks which then attack from unexpected angles and blindspots.

This is important because we know all 3 are using different methods to produce the sparks.

Niang's version is explicitly stated to be a lower version which she produces with her weapons while Aleister only controls his own magic's, Coronzon is the only one taking the full scale natural ones and bringing them to the physical world.

We just don't have much support to day Aleister is imposing a a fundamental, fated death on others with his sparks (did he ever even kill someone with them?).

your the one who claimed that it is been proven to exist in toaru

...

Yes man, 11 dimensions exist in Toaru, Espers use it to teleport, this is a fact.

Their nature is up to discussion, their existence isn't.

this is the topic

i know 11D exists but the entire compact thing doesn't make sense when we look at the entire series

They can pop up in theories that IRL they don't because in Toaru they're a proven aspect of reality, that they appear in quantum theories is further evidence that they're small scale dimensions.

What you're quoting here from one of your previous posts is weak argument about how Senior doesn't know what she is talking about... based on absolutely nothing.

because thats the smallest distance and "super small" things also have a size because it says the smaller you go the more dimensions you see

not that the dimension has no size or volume

Bro

They are dimensions, they are spatial axis of movement, they aren't small realms that you enter, simply as that.

"How can a human fit inside" is just not how they work, just literally look at the example the manga gives with the ant and the rope, the ant doesn't go to a different, rope sized reality, it literally just walks on its side.

Teleporters are doing exactly what the ant is doing, but in a smaller scale which allows to what we perceive as teleportation.

bruh it explicitly happends when she uses teleportation them being diffrent natures doesn't mean anything when both use 11D

Bro, they're supernatural powers (no IRL rules) that exploit super science (no IRL rules) to cause cool effects (no IRL rules).

Can you actually quote somewhere in the novels that says "everyone with 11D manipulation will do XYZ regardless if they're a teleporter or not"?

Her disintegration ability isn’t even a result from teleporting an object inside another, it's a result from ******* the process midway through by "losing sight of the destination".

Damn, you're arguing Senior is wrong and just bullshting outdated information, but we are outright told that the area teleportation stuff from Kamino is a lie and you're still somehow trying to use it to debunk a claim that isn’t even based on it.

Honestly, I am too tired to keep up this discussion, if you want to make a CRT about it or whatever go ahead, I honestly don't care if we drop to L2C, to 2C or keep the same rating at this point.

 

[Churronzon]

sparks don't always inflict death

When you get down to it, fortune is the sparks
that failed to become miracles. The spray produced by the contact and collision between
phases has a shockingly thin but widespread influence on people. It affects coin tosses,
the order at which dishes are served at a restaurant, meetings and partings, marriages
and divorces...and even people’s deaths. If you see no direct cause for your daughter’s
death, you should assume it is a spontaneous event caused by a gathering of the influence
that so many people are unwittingly affected by.”

Coronzon said it herself.
They can at times be deadly

“Magic usage causes slight fluctuations in this world and the collisions between the unseen overlapping phases produce sparks which can at times be deadly.

Aleister only controls his own magic's, Coronzon is the only one taking the full scale natural ones and bringing them to the physical world.

How'd you get such an incorrect reading from the section that Aleister uses the literal sparks and not a spell version based on them? Two characters talk about him just gathering the sparks that already exist and using a sort of lightning rod to redirect them.
How do you headcanon Aleister saving Lilith's life without redirecting the sparks that killed her?

 

[XDragnoir]

sparks don't always inflict death

How do you think we should index all of that, then?

How'd you get such an incorrect reading from the section that Aleister uses the literal sparks and not a spell version based on them? Two characters talk about him just gathering the sparks that already exist and using a sort of lightning rod to redirect them.
How do you headcanon Aleister saving Lilith's life without redirecting the sparks that killed her?

Y'all are some tiresome MFs, I will say that.

"Do not act so surprised by what is no more than a lightning rod. And it is limited to the
magic that I launch myself."

I was basing what I said in this line WHERE HE LITERALLY SAYS IT'S LIMITED TO HIS OWN SPELLS.

Now, if the quote below the first one is him using it differently, sure, if even this one actually meant it's not limited to himself but can actually completely control every spark or whatever, idrc anymore.

 

[Churronzon]

How do you think we should index all of that, then?

I guess probability manip, since I just remembered that's how the magic page listed the sparks as. so technically they do have it lol.

I'm not really interested in making CRTs though since I already know the following blog would get a lot of pushback just for the Kabbalah section alone, not to mention the dimension discussion going on above

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Churronzon/Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_Explanation_Page

if someone wants to take pieces or the entirety of the unfinished blog for themselves in their own CRT, they're free to do so. However idk who else cares to make a CRT to update the cosmology info.
Meant to replace this decade old blog that is still formally in use

Toaru Majutsu no Index Explanation Page

This blog's purpose is to gather all the quotes related to the tiering and powers of Toaru Majutsu no Index's (Mainly the Magic Gods), with the goal of solving any doubts one might have of their capabilities while also making easier to access important quotes in case a discussion about them...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Felience1]

XDragnoir what is what you want to do regarding dimensions? you talked about a change but I am not sure what your take on the change is. Do you want a separation between curtana and the scientific ones and make them independent or what exactly do you want?

 

[Aseka]

Can we admit Aleister, Niang-Niang, and Coronzon have fate manipulation from actual sparks yet? Like it's directly told to us that Aleister grabs the sparks that already exist in the world and redirects it. Hell it was a central character trait that he redirects it to himself so that it doesn't harm anyone else when he uses magic and that he could have saved his daughter's life if he developed the spell sooner.


According to Kamachi, anyone would realize what was happening when they see Niang-Niang use the word "sparks".

Niang-Niang uses the sparks that Aleister hates.


Coronzon gives the sparks that exist a physical form and ensures death at the "fundamental level of destiny."

It's legit Fate Manipulation

 

[Churronzon]

Niang-Niang's Shijie-Xian is the lowest level of immortality under her own Taoist philosophy, not counting general Magic God traits.

that is all, thank you for your attention on this matter

 

[DerBaumKrieger]

Yes man, 11 dimensions exist in Toaru, Espers use it to teleport, this is a fact.

Their nature is up to discussion, their existence isn't.

sorry for being late

not my argument

im reffering that you need to prove that these compact dimensions are proven to exist

They can pop up in theories that IRL they don't because in Toaru they're a proven aspect of reality, that they appear in quantum theories is further evidence that they're small scale dimensions.

yet the way teleporters work disprove all that or curtana again just it being about quantum mechanics doesn't mean that the spatial dimensions are small

like i said before

personal reality brings out their own reality which causes changes on the quantum to affect the physical world but quantum physics isn't neccerely just being small it can go also in higher spatial dimensions that are not compact like hilbert space within MWI or RS2 so saying that large dimensions don't fit there is false

What you're quoting here from one of your previous posts is weak argument about how Senior doesn't know what she is talking about... based on absolutely nothing.

im reminding you what the topic is

the fact that none off the other tp espers are applying to this is enough prove off this

Bro

They are dimensions, they are spatial axis of movement, they aren't small realms that you enter, simply as that.

"How can a human fit inside" is just not how they work, just literally look at the example the manga gives with the ant and the rope, the ant doesn't go to a different, rope sized reality, it literally just walks on its side.

Teleporters are doing exactly what the ant is doing, but in a smaller scale which allows to what we perceive as teleportation.

the manga clearly described it as a passage when the world is folded to shorten the distance between a to b

the ant example doesn't work because the ant example is to explain that the dimensions are small and not to explain how they travel the manga explictily says after that the world itself folds when they teleport

Bro, they're supernatural powers (no IRL rules) that exploit super science (no IRL rules) to cause cool effects (no IRL rules).

so we ignore the rules of teleportation in the series itself

Can you actually quote somewhere in the novels that says "everyone with 11D manipulation will do XYZ regardless if they're a teleporter or not"?

its talking spefically of teleportation and thats not my burden

Her disintegration ability isn’t even a result from teleporting an object inside another, it's a result from ******* the process midway through by "losing sight of the destination".

thats not the argument

when kuruko or awaki fails teleportation nothing happends when kamino fails it gets destroyed the whole point of the overlapp is to show that the folding of dimensions doesn't work with the teleportation of mainline esp

this is a tracking issue on your end

Damn, you're arguing Senior is wrong and just bullshting outdated information, but we are outright told that the area teleportation stuff from Kamino is a lie and you're still somehow trying to use it to debunk a claim that isn’t even based on it.

"outdated information" yeah somehow trusting a person that was frozen for a long time over shown effects from teleportation and explainations from people that have current day (refering to the time within toaru) knowlege

were did i used the area teleportation as an argument to debunk it further more i already mentioned that the area teleportation is a lie

Honestly, I am too tired to keep up this discussion, if you want to make a CRT about it or whatever go ahead, I honestly don't care if we drop to L2C, to 2C or keep the same rating at this point.

ok thats fine

sure i may do an crt in the future

 

[Churronzon]

Secret Chief truthers in shambles.
They're subservient to the Great Old Ones per Kenneth Grant's system that tied Lovecraft to Thelema (the guy Kamachi used for the Forgotten God)

(just agenda)

 

[Doggo]

Whats the progress with this verse btw?

 

[Churronzon]

味方からの被害も気に留めず、小麦色の死霊術師イザベラ＝テイズムがボソボソと口の中で呟いていた。涼しい顔で。明確な呪いを。

「其はこの地平線より底を支配する暗闇の王。其は太陽神を迎え入れる館の主。一日の半分、その積み重ね、すなわちこの世の半分を支配する強き夜の管理者なり。たとえ肉体は滅び蘇えるとも、適切な手順さえ踏まえれば何度でも蘇る偉大なる王よ。我はここに貴方をお迎えする準備を完遂した」

その体を細切れにされて大地に撒かれようとも、死別と平等と正義、そして自らの身でもって犠牲を司る偉大なる王よ。

ダイアン＝フォーチュンの額から嫌な汗が噴き出した。

これは、これはかりは……本当にまずい。

どぱっ、と。

こいつは、あの魔術師クロウリーですら重視していた神話の象徴でもあった。イシスの時代、オシリスの時代、ホルスの時代……。そんな言葉くらいなら、『R＆Cオカルティクス』のホームページでちょっと齧ったくらいの中高生でも知っているはずだ。

何より、かってロンドンではダイアン＝フォーチュン自身、魔神ネフテュスと名乗る女性と遭遇している。その時には手も足も出ないどころか、そもそも戦う気概さえ湧かないほどに圧倒的な差があった。こいつは、太古の神話上ではそのネフテュスよりも序列が高い。

ダイアン＝フォーチュンは目を剥いて叫んでいた。

つまり立ち塞がるこの天敵は、

「冥神オシリス、!?」

Spoiler: GT15 preview

Didn't know Isabella could do that so readily

Should be comparatively weak considering phase beings can't be summoned at full power especially by a regular magician, but it's still cool to see.

I really enjoyed the moral dilemmas Hamazura is already facing.