"Time you saw what I'm really capable of, kid." | The Snatcher VS Kris Dreemurr

[Bruhtelho]

Normal Snatcher and Dark World (Chapter 4) Kris are used

Fight takes place within a Dark World that was created in Subcon Forest

Speed is equalized

Kris has access to his Optional Equipment

Both Start 10 Meters apart​

---

"Time you saw what I'm really capable of, kid. Say goodbye to that little head of yours!":0

"At times, you see it flickering. The light only you can see. By second nature, you reach out, and...":0

Inconclusive:8 (Qurbonboev, LittleGuy99, Poketmonsrs, Zanesucksatlife, Ednaxel2, Anonymous_Learner, Bruhtelho, Randomuser3412)

​

 

[Bruhtelho]

AP for both and BUMP

Kris is baseline City Level (6.3 Megatons)

The Snatcher is vastly superior to 9.12 Megatons

 

[StarShooter80]

Kris​

• Snatcher already has a good AP/Dura advantage being >>1.44761904762x stronger than Kris. However Kris can enhance their potency with X Slash, Black Shard by 25%, even more with Rage power clasing the strength gap. And their durability with Shield and Courage. Kris is also listed to possibly have minor AD, and has limited danmaku. With these additions Kris should close the gap and might be stronger, but starting out base to base they are weaker.
• For other defenses or abilities that can help them, Kris has Supernatural Willpower allowing to ignore pain from enemy attacks, limited invulnerability after being hit, can heal themselves with items, limited mid-low regeneration, can see Snatcher's statistics with info analysis, reduce Snatcher's power and durability with statistics reduction, use empathetic manipulation, and induce fear.
• Kris would also not be instantly K.O'd by Snatcher's pain and soul manipulation, since they can ignore the pain of enemy attacks via supernatural willpower, and can survive after ripping out their soul for a time and endure Darkner attacks that affect the soul. Though Kris has no work-around with Snatcher's death manipulation.

Snatcher​

• Starting AP advantage of >>1.44761904762x base to base. Can also increase his attack power with rage power.
• Minor LS advantage of 1.03056209049x.
• For other defenses or abilities that can help him, he has type 2 immortality, homing attack, BFR Kris on a scale of hundreds of km, death manipulation and teleportation.

In terms of raw power Snatcher has a good advantage base to base but overtime if the fight doesn't end immediately, Kris would become stronger. LS isn't that relevant. Kris has more defences than Snatcher, however Snatcher has some hax that can turn the fight to his favour, such as BFR and death manipulation as a last resort. Though i'm not sure whether or not all of the abilities in Snatcher's profile is for all of his forms or is just a big mix. Kris is also seemingly a more skilled combatant having more impressive showings and the such.

So despite having more advantages Kris just doesn't have a work-around his BFR and death manipulation, and Snatcher should be able to survive long enough to use said abilities, so I'm voting Snatcher.

 

[Bruhtelho]

really good analysis but i'll answer one question and point out somethings

Snatcher​

• Starting AP advantage of >>1.44761904762x base to base. Can also increase his attack power with rage power.

Snatchers attacks also constantly get faster thanks to Reactive Power Level (His attack speed will noticeably increase as time goes on)

however Snatcher has some hax that can turn the fight to his favour, such as BFR and death manipulation as a last resort. Though i'm not sure whether or not all of the abilities in Snatcher's profile is for all of his forms or is just a big mix.

So despite having more advantages Kris just doesn't have a work-around his BFR and death manipulation, and Snatcher should be able to survive long enough to use said abilities, so I'm voting Snatcher.

Death Manip isn't gonna work due to Kris' Time Manipulation, Immortality & Healing (Types 4 & 8) all thanks to the player being able to rewind the battle to before it started through the Save System but a big thing for Snatcher here is his resistance to Time Manipulation meaning if Time is rewound on him, he'll still remember who Kris is and realize the time manipulation just like with mustache girl likely leading to him insta BFR'ing or infinitely killing him which counts as an Incap win since all of his thought based abilities have much further range.

The Snatcher profile gives him access to all his abilities since most of the keys are just Snatcher but stronger with enhanced capabilities, the only real thing of note would be the that Ultra/EX act "as a composite to the other bosses as well" so something like the buzzsaws wouldn't happen in base key but its still something he could do.

 

[StarShooter80]

Snatchers attacks also constantly get faster thanks to Reactive Power Level (His attack speed will noticeably increase as time goes on)

I'm not sure if we take into account speed increases for speed equalization fights but if that's the case then Kris can also increase the speed of their soul with HoldBreath, ScaredyCat, Yellow Mode and Supercharged Big Shots. Again idk if we take that into account

Snatchers attacks also constantly get faster thanks to Reactive Power Level (His attack speed will noticeably increase as time goes on)

I feel like that gets evened out by the statistics reductions Kris can impose on him but that just depends on how effective either one is, which I'm not sure of. Not sure who exactly would be stronger in the long term I can see either having a slight advantage over the other

Death Manip isn't gonna work due to Kris' Time Manipulation, Immortality & Healing (Types 4 & 8) all thanks to the player being able to rewind the battle to before it started through the Save System but a big thing for Snatcher here is his resistance to Time Manipulation meaning if Time is rewound on him, he'll still remember who Kris is and realize the time manipulation just like with mustache girl likely leading to him insta BFR'ing or infinitely killing him which counts as an Incap win since all of his thought based abilities have much further range.

Doesn't the soul need a save point to perform this?

The Snatcher profile gives him access to all his abilities since most of the keys are just Snatcher but stronger with enhanced capabilities, the only real thing of note would be the that Ultra/EX act "as a composite to the other bosses as well" so something like the buzzsaws wouldn't happen in base key but its still something he could do.

Alright then thanks for the note on that

 

[Steve1775]

Doesn't Kris have the player's help cuz I remember doing a thread on them and they said that the player can help restore everything about them

 

[Bruhtelho]

I'm not sure if we take into account speed increases for speed equalization fights but if that's the case then Kris can also increase the speed of their soul with HoldBreath, ScaredyCat, Yellow Mode and Supercharged Big Shots. Again idk if we take that into account

I feel like that gets evened out by the statistics reductions Kris can impose on him but that just depends on how effective either one is, which I'm not sure of. Not sure who exactly would be stronger in the long term I can see either having a slight advantage over the other

within Speed Equal, the faster opponent is brought down to the slower opponents speed including any enhancements per the page "Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier" so Kris' options are brought down to The Snatcher's speed so he could still use them but they wouldn't be as fast give or take

Doesn't the soul need a save point to perform this?

Not really, since its just per the player activating it upon death and allowing them to restart the battle but it doesn't really matter given Snatcher has resistance to something like this and can either 1. BFR him or 2. infinitely death hax him since killing your opponent forever counts as an incap.

 

[StarShooter80]

within Speed Equal, the faster opponent is brought down to the slower opponents speed including any enhancements per the page "Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier" so Kris' options are brought down to The Snatcher's speed so he could still use them but they wouldn't be as fast give or take

I see what ym and you're right on the other point, sticking with my vote on Snatcher

 

[Qurbonboev]

1. BFR him or 2. infinitely death hax him since killing your opponent forever counts as an incap.

And what is stopping Player from hitting True Reset if it sees that Kris has no chances of winning?

 

[Steve1775]

And what is stopping Player from hitting True Reset if it sees that Kris has no chances of winning?

The player is a bum for choosing to rage quit rather than just simply learn the patterns smh

 

[Bruhtelho]

And what is stopping Player from hitting True Reset if it sees that Kris has no chances of winning?

how does this work for Kris? since based on the player description hes eliminating Kris as well since its deleting his world and even then True Reset isn't a thing in deltarune yet but still is EE and time manipulation and if the player gets that mad that he quits altogether it sounds morelike Snatchers win than Kris'.

 

[Qurbonboev]

The player is a bum for choosing to rage quit rather than just simply learn the patterns smh

Agree on Player being bum.

how does this work for Kris? since based on the player description hes eliminating Kris as well since its deleting his world and even then True Reset isn't a thing in deltarune yet but still is EE and time manipulation and if the player gets that mad that he quits altogether it sounds morelike Snatchers win than Kris'.

It's usually treated as a win for Asriel, and incon for Frisk/Player. Most likely, True Reset would differ from normal LOAD only by Snatcher memories being erased, thus preventing incap

 

[Bruhtelho]

It's usually treated as a win for Asriel, and incon for Frisk/Player. Most likely, True Reset would differ from normal LOAD only by Snatcher memories being erased, thus preventing incap

so it'd be an incon at best since if Kris were to encounter Snatcher again, he may just straight up Death Manip right off the gate depending on if Snatcher views him as useful or not. i'm assuming as well that Acausality Type 1 negation falls under Snatcher resistance to Time Manipulation since on his profile he doesn't have Acausality yet retains his memories when time is altered

 

[LittleGuy99]

Can Kris convince him not to fight with ACTs?

 

[Bruhtelho]

Can Kris convince him not to fight with ACTs?

given Snatcher genius level intelligence and his own SI, its unlikely, hes a near-flawless strategist, proficient lawyer, masterful manipulator & leader, and capable combatant, hes done this for as long as hes existed within Subcon Forest further proven by how he's stolen hundred of souls something he usually does through contracts. if Kris tries ACTing at him, Snatcher would likely use it as a moment to blackmail him where he has 2 choices. Either submit to him and oblige to his contracts or die on spot, just like Hat Kid.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Qurbonboev]

i'm assuming as well that Acausality Type 1 negation falls under Snatcher resistance to Time Manipulation since on his profile he doesn't have Acausality yet retains his memories when time is altered

Time manipulation of Player is totally different from time manipulation of Hat Kid. Nevermind it being coupled with infohax 2, so unless Snatcher resists it too, his memories getting erased. In conclusion, it's incon

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Time manipulation of Player is totally different from time manipulation of Hat Kid. Nevermind it being coupled with infohax 2, so unless Snatcher resists it too, his memories getting erased. In conclusion, it's incon

Snatcher also resists Mustache Girl's time reverse too, so he should remember Kris.

Also ain't True Reset the one with Infohax?

 

[Qurbonboev]

Also ain't True Reset the one with Infohax?

Yes. If normal time manipulation had it too, Kris would have stomped Snatcher(since he wouldn't remember anything), but since it's only for TRUE RESET its incon

 

[Psychomaster35]

Can Snatcher even kill Kris? He usually goes for the kill in-character both when a deal is rejected and when he's done having his victim as his puppet, but the issue is that every time Kris dies, the Player will just reset the battle to try again with a different strategy.

And while I am aware that he can send his victims to pocket dimensions the moment they fall into one of his traps, he only does this to try to make a deal with his victim which would either end in the victim dying from rejecting the deal or working for Snatcher until he's done having them as his servant to which he proceeds to kill them, so it's him leading with death either way. The closest thing we've seen of him using BFR in a fight is where he sends Hat Kid to a pitch black dimension and to be defeated at the end of his fight, but that just ended with him making a deal with her for her to leave Subcon Forest with the last Time Piece he was holding.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Can Snatcher even kill Kris? He usually goes for the kill in-character both when a deal is rejected and when he's done having his victim as his puppet, but the issue is that every time Kris dies, the Player will just reset the battle to try again with a different strategy.

Snatcher remembers every time the Player LOADs is the thing.

 

[Bruhtelho]

BUMP but also basically what Eden said, Player LOADing is only Immortality type 4, 8, and Time Manipulation, Snatcher would remember everything after a load just like how he remembered Hat Kid despite Time being messed up and all over the place but that doesn't cover True Reset since that negates remembering and completely erases everything including Kris, which is an incon.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[LittleGuy99]

Incon FRA

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Incon FRA

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Voting Incon fra

 

[StarShooter80]

Changing to incon cause of true reset

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Lou_change]

The player never shows the ability to true reset in deltarune. That is also not an ability kris has and the true reset is not something the player spams even in undertale. Also technically would standard battle assumptions even put the player a state of mind to fight Snatcher or necessarily consider snatcher an enemy.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump