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Time to end shit talking, it is about to get real: Miraak vs Neloth

Neloth is more versatile than Miraak, I also think he can resist Miraak's thu'um since he resisted Bend Will.

I'd say Neloth FRA.
 
I still don't really agree with Neloth's rating as his justification is only hearsay (and him fighting the Nerevarine is clearly not canon), but Miraak still managed to mindhax Neloth, he just managed to snap out of it. At best this makes him comparable in willpower to pre-dragonborn Dovahkiin, who was still weaker than Miraak. I really don't think Neloth is as strong as Miraak, especially since Neloth himself admitted he could learn a few things from Savos Aren, who definitely is end-game Dovahkiin's inferior.

My vote is Miraak.
 
Well this is a tough one. I think it boils down to can Neloth resist Miraak's mind hax? Beacuse Neloth did a lot of things that prevent mind hax, but he admited himself that he doesn't know what he did that prevented it. So if we assume that Neloth can resist his mind hax I think he can take this high-diff.
 
Based on the Prisoner metaphysic, it is possible that Neloth or his clone fought against 2-C Nerevarine. It would guarantee Neloth of standing at 2-C rank, but likeliness of Miraak and Dovahkiin way surpassing Nerevarine in hax. Since you are indecisive, I offer a few opinion to solidify a vote.
 
Thing is I think this would boil down to whether Neloth gets mind haxed. And since Neloth wasn't sure what he did that prevented his mind hax makes this very hard to determine.

I'll go inconclusive for now might change later on.
 
You need 7 votes for a guy, not 7 votes total.
 
First of all, Neloth's clearly powerful enough to put up a fight against Tier 2 characters in TES. I mean, he helped the Dovahkiin in his fight against Krosulhah, a dragon sent by Miraak himself in order to kill the Dragonborn. One could argue Miraak would send no weak, random dragon to fight a Dragonborn, neither would he bother to come all his way from Apocrypha to take his soul before the Dovahkiin, right?

He can also fight the Nerevarine back in TES III, and he is a though one. He was regarded as one of the most powerful wizards in House Telvanni, which may include the Nerevarine himself.

Second, Neloth can resist Miraak's mindhax. He can read Herma-Mora's Black Books, which should give him a mindhax resistance in the same leagues of the Dovahkiin himself. Also, I do remember Neloth being abe to directly resist Miraak's mindhax. I mean, every night the people of Tel Mithryn left to work on that Miraak thing, but he was fine, unaffected. The Dovahkiin may even question him on whether or not he's able to stop them from leaving, and he answers he could not, but only because he did not want to and wanted to realize what was actually going on. I mean, boys??

Also also, Miraak knew absolutely nothing about Neloth, while the contrary was not true. Neloth had Miraak studied and researched, and knows very well how his powers work and how he is most likely going to underestimate the old dunmer wizard-lord.

I suppose I'll need to go with Neloth here.
 
Krosulhah being Low 2-C sounds like extreme wank if Paarthurnax, Alduin's rival, is still High 6-A. It has even more reason to be an outlier than Harkon has. And it doesn't really take much effort for Miraak to snatch dragon souls, so I wouldn't call it a bother.

He can fight the Nerevarine but that alone doesn't mean anything, because all he does is lose to him. It isn't canon either. Him being among the strongest mages in House Telvanni is true, but Mankar Camoran and Jagar Tharn were certainly no pushovers either, and they're just High 4-C. If a bunch of Morrowind characters get to scale off the Nerevarine then it does create an imbalance between the power of people in Vvardenfell and for example in Cyrodill which IMO is impossible to believe.

Neloth was not unaffected by Miraak's mindhax, either. If you ask Neloth about Miraak he takes a minute to try and remember who Miraak is, which is one of the ways Miraak affected Solstheim, making everyone forget who he was. If Neloth truly had Miraak "studied and researched" as you say, it makes no sense for him to suddenly forget like that.

Even if Neloth would have been able to help the people ensnared by Miraak's will, it wouldn't be enough to make him his equal. You're able to help them out yourself by knowing only one word of Bend Will, at that point Miraak still practically toys with you and steals your dragon souls. Even to Neloth, Miraak is being a nuisance, and that's while being locked away in a different dimension and not putting in much effort.

Neloth himself just lacks any real feats. He's certainly powerful, but his own word shouldn't be taken for granted, since he was very likely underestimating Miraak himself. If not, it really takes away from the gravity of the questline.
 
It makes no logical sense for Neloth to be Low 2-C just because he is one of the most powerfull wizards in Morrowind. Mankar Camoran was also supposed to be one of the strongest mages in the world and he is still only High 4-C despite being buffed by Mysterium Xarxes. Someone should make a CRT for Neloth and significantly nerf him.
 
correction someone should make a crt for the verse as whole to nerf alot of the the ratings which suffer from this same problem ovo
 
Agreeing with Tedrius' reasoning here. Neloth lack any significant feat and his statements are influenced by arrogance and his lack of understanding about Miraak's power. Miraak FRA.
 
Paul Frank said:
correction someone should make a crt for the verse as whole to nerf alot of the the ratings which suffer from this same problem ovo
Click to expand...
There is nothing stopping you from making one yourself
 
There is nothing stopping you from making one yourself

that is absolutely correct but I'm lazy so yeah

Miraak fra
 
Neloth and Fyr are both narcissistic, and in some ways, out of touch. The latter just so happens to have some feats to back up his claims, one being not instantly dying to Nocturnal.

I'm not under the impression that Neloth is universal, nor immeasurable.
 
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