Tier 9-A Partners in Crime Tournament; Round 1 Match 7: Kamen Rider Shadow Moon and Kamen Rider Black Sun VS Berdly and The Queen (1-1-0)

[DimeUhDozen]

From all the examples I’ve seen of his TK, forgive me if I’m wrong, but he only ever seems to do it one at a time to singular targets with one outstretched hand. Would he really be able to do that to as many targets as Berdly and Queen are constantly dishing out?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'll vote the Kamen Riders FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

That's a fair assessment, tbh. Most of the fights are one on one against singular opponents, but Shadow Moon has two arms, and can most probably use his TK with both hands. And his TK itself is a bit open-ended admittedly, due to not having an exact limit, but his TK size range should be similar to Queen's forcefield (or i could be bloody wrong)

All's not lost if I'm wrong tho, as Black Sun can also aid in deflecting the danmaku away along with their sense and perception.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I don’t doubt that he has the senses to intercept and or dodge those attacks, but it’s going to be difficult considering how much he has to hold at a time. A reminder that not only are they dealing with Queen’s attacks, but Berdly’s as well.

Just one of Queen’s attacks can land projectiles in the dozens. If he’s lucky, maybe he can get two of them that overlap in the same TK hold, but simultaneously, nine more plus Berdly’s tornados are coming at him and Black Sun. And that’s just for the one second. Queen spams her digital head attack like 9 times in short succession of each other so more than a hundred attacks + Berdly’s will need to be TK’d, deflected or dodged in about eight seconds coming at them from different angles, even behind them. It would be easier if they had the AP and Dura to allow for some leeway, but even just a shave would be enough to severely damage them thanks to the gap.

Keep in mind, this is still with the goal that they need to close the distance to activate their wincon of LS-ing Queen and Berdly. So unless they have some insane Riku and Sora deflecting a hundred laser bolts from Xemnas kind of feat, I don’t see an outcome where they win happening.

 

[DrGreyman]

Plus we know that if Berdly is serious about a fight, like when he fought Kris and Noelle in the Snowgrave route, he likes spamming his upgraded sin wave attack, aka a lot of projectiles all following the sameish path in very quick succession with more projectiles splitting off from the main line

 

[Shadowslash125]

That's why there is Black Sun to cover his flank for Shadow Moon. What I see can happen is Shadow Moon advances as a wall for Black Sun while he follows suit. While they're not in range of his TK, Shadow Moon is free to swerve and blow away projectiles coming to them while dodging whenever possible. Kotaro will be taking care of the projectiles from the back by dodging in unison with Nobuhiko or deflecting. Obviously they're not going to be at the levels of Riku and Sora and their durability is admittedly ass in this fight, but we still can't count them out just from that alone. Even with the poor durability, they have heat heavens to heal them on the way to their adversary, and Nobuhiko has dozens of them as his standard equipment.

They only need to be several meters away from Queen and Berdly to initiate their attack (close range for Black Sun only). What Shadowmoon can also do is to TK either Queen or Berdly to have one of them be a meat shield for the oncoming danmakus they'll face.

By the by, I need to ask if the Rider duo will have their motorcycles, because it will make the traversal become way easier. Though since Queen has her flying chair, I don't see why they won't have them. If this is confirmed, this is really going to change everything.

Edit: I have word that their motorcycles are allowed. I'll be elaborating on this very soon.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Yes, but while Black Sun covers for Shadow Moon, Queen will also have Berdly who is his own problem entirely as Greyman just described. Nearly all of the problems that I’ve given are from just one of Queen’s attacks. One of her easy mode attacks. Now add that with Berdly to the equation and it goes from difficult to overwhelming to the point where a few precise and masterful sword strikes will not make much of a difference. Black Sun’s greatest detriment is that he has severely limited range and can only be at one place at one time.

Ever been in a JRPG where you’re severely underleved and the boss is hitting you with attacks that deplete like a massive chunk of your HP? You constantly need to heal, and even just one act of healing will not only take up the time you’d need to attack, but be useless in a moment thanks to another attack hitting you just as hard, and then a second one, and then you’re dead. That’s what’s happening in the fight in terms of healing reserves.

And honestly, I think the motorcycles would actually hurt their chances since not only now do they need to dodge, deflect, heal, close the gap, etc., they now also need to operate a motorcycle that may take some time to start up. They’d also need to deflect and dodge WHILE on the motorcycles leaving only one hand for Shadow Moon to TK with aside from the usual two. Every precious second to the Riders is one that they need in this fight. They can’t afford to slow down or have their attention occupied by something else for even a moment.

 

[DrGreyman]

Yeah looking at the profiles the motorcycles just seem to be regular vehicles
like, they can sense obstacles, and have lights on them, and can handle jumps well
doesn't look like there are any superhax hiding behind having a motorcycle on hand

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Also, this is just a really obvious wincon:

Queen can just fly upwards hundreds of meters into the air with her chair and spam attacks from that distance to a point where the riders can’t reach her and pull Berdly up with her wire with her.

Then they literally just cannot close the gap no matter what.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok this is the big game changer. Having motorcycles meaning crossing the gap becoming faster and slightly easier in terms of going through the distance. Both of their bikes have information analysis, aiding in helping them deal with the projectiles on their way IN ADDITION to their already potent sense and perception. Here's where their bikes start differing:

Black Sun's bike can synchronise with his already potent sense and perception to better aid in the dodging their danmaku while Shadow Moon's bike can exceed it's maximum speed to cross the gap even quicker, since he don't need to worry too much about the projectiles compared to his partner due to his TK.

From this, we can get that they should be able to go through 30 meters faster than Queen flying to the sky (at least for Shadow Moon to get to TK range). How fast is her chair? Since both bikes can go 350 mph, they have 156.464 metres per second to cross, which will be too fast to cross the gap, meaning they'll reach TK range in no time (unless their vehicle speed is equalised too, making me stupid). There's a reason why we call these guys Kamen Riders, because they ride bikes and kick ass. Once they're in range, they'll have an easier time by jumping from their bikes. Not to mention Shadow Moon can TK Black Sun's bike and flying it across to them (or his own).

Should Queen actually literally outrange them, it'll more or less become an incon seeing as while the distance is too great for Black Sun and Shadow Moon (without using his TK shenanigans to throw stuff), they'll still be dodging to no tomorrow.

 

[DrGreyman]

how fast can they actually get on and start their motorcycles?
like, assuming they aren't on them already going their top speed to begin with
we don't know exactly how fast she is since we dont really see her chair pushed to its limits but on her profile it says she is comparable to Kris, who is supersonic at 667.20 m/s

also side note i like how Nobuhiko Akizuki first key has the same lifting strength feat as Kris, breaking an iron shackle
not part of the fight but a fun coincidence

 

[Shadowslash125]

how fast can they actually get on and start their motorcycles?

Probably within a few seconds since they don't wear helmets, they are the helmets.
By then Shadow Moon will have the range to catch Queen, or chuck Black Sun at her then catch her before she flies away and makes it become an incon.

And yea, it's pretty interesting to see the similarity.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok if speed is equalised for vehicles then they should be reaching the TK range before she flies.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I feel like you're avoiding the original problem which is that it isn't the quality of the dodging, it's the quantity. You can be the most skilled dodger in the whole world but if you're being overwhelmed by that many projectiles in that amount of time + Berdly and you'd need to actually start the bike up as well - it is not going to end well. Meanwhile Queen can just go "LMAO" and fly up if she wants to and spam attacks. Then continue the fight whenever she feels like it.

Also it wouldn't be fair to assume that they even have the combat speed to react to those attacks while driving their motorcycles at their top speed since they only have subsonic combat speed, and the supersonic values you're talking about are not even on the profile. Simply put, the arguments you're making for the bikes haven't even been accepted unless you want to make a CRT for them right now.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Wait wait wait since speed is equalised and the gamer duo will scale to the slower speed being that of BS and SM, they might not need their motor bikes after all, since both of them should be more than fast enough to cross 30 meters, with even less for them to reach TK range since they should upscale from their kaijin key value.

I'll answer the quantity dodge shenanigans soon since I'm outside rn and uhh stuff.