• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Tier 0 Force

Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
289
Reaction score
73
Since this was discussed prior I am in agreement with the tier.

However I'm not sure how we're supposed to present The Force as a profile. Like is it a location or a character?
If you ask my opinion, I see it as listable as a character
 
The profile is missing a lot of scans and references, and even justifications for some of the abilities. Also some of the format is off, mind if I fix that? (Although it'll be when I wake up)
 
The profile is missing a lot of scans and references, and even justifications for some of the abilities. Also some of the format is off, mind if I fix that? (Although it'll be when I wake up)
Of course it's okay, I'm very open to everyone's help and ideas on this subject.
 
Since this was discussed prior I am in agreement with the tier.

However I'm not sure how we're supposed to present The Force as a profile. Like is it a location or a character?
The Force is not tied to any one particular character nor it is exactly a location as well.

I believe we have listed events on this wiki. We could just listed it as a Power page since we already have a drafted profile page for it.


Edit: Right, I am more leaning towards a cosmic phenomenon given Obi Wan’s quote from the original trilogy and all.

 
Last edited:
Of course it's okay, I'm very open to everyone's help and ideas on this subject.

I couldn't edit your sandbox, so I copied your source code and edited it in my sandbox. Copy the source code from my sandbox, and overwrite the source code in yours with mine.

I fixed majority of the errors (didn't touch references), just remember to add references, scans and justifications for your abilities and statistics.
 
We don't really need to tier it if it isn't a location or character then.
 

I couldn't edit your sandbox, so I copied your source code and edited it in my sandbox. Copy the source code from my sandbox, and overwrite the source code in yours with mine.

I fixed majority of the errors (didn't touch references), just remember to add references, scans and justifications for your abilities and statistics.
thank you very much for your help 🙏
 
The term character has a loaded meaning when speaking about it in most cases. Usually, when we think of characters, we think of individuals with unique motivations or direct quotes. This understanding just would not work when assessing the force since individual motivations, direct quotes/actions would be quite inappropriate for something that is tier 0. To use an example, the Force is closer to "God" from Unsong, the Divine Comedy, or World of Darkness than it is to Goku (To clarify, when I use these profiles as examples, I am bringing to light their role as some sort of fundamental, transcendental source within Star Wars, not directly referring to the Force as a God which is also considered a misinterpretation addressed in the justification paragraph). It is also seemingly not a location or merely "some force" (which is ironic given the name, of course). When we are talking about Tier 0 things, oftentimes, traditional character traits boil down to nothing. When we're talking about tiering the Tier 0 Force, we're talking about some source that is not just a cosmic phenomenon or energy field, as these are only the interpretations that other characters in-verse impose on it.

It is closer to some "conceptual entity" than it is to the traditional character, which I think is quite the unfair standard to hold it to if we already acknowledge that it is Tier 0. Other tier 0s, as listed in my example above, also fit this distinction much closer than they fit being a traditional character in my view. I am not against giving it a tier at all.

To quote the proposed justification that was accepted in the Tier 0 CRT:

"The Force, in it's most utter simplicity, is a unifying oneness fundamentally distinct from any and all interpretations and conceptualizations imposed upon it, which do not truly grasp The Force, but rather the limited understanding of mortal beings of what it is, whether it be as a non-sentient energy field, midi-chlorians, the universe, or even god itself, they are all "half truths" or "lies", which will always be inferior to the truth; the truth that "All is One", that The Force is devoid of duality and distinct parts other than itself, as The Force is everything and everything is The Force, and all that is or evil will be will eventually return to it's oneness beyond qualitative separation and differentiation. Whether in Beyond Shadows, where reality beneath is simply a dream, or in lesser planes of reality, The Force is binding just as it is everywhere else. It thus cannot be separated or differentiated outside of it's non-indicative interpretations and conceptualizations."
 
Since you are linking to images of text, can you provide the specific quotes on the profile?
 
It is closer to some "conceptual entity" than it is to the traditional character, which I think is quite the unfair standard to hold it to if we already acknowledge that it is Tier 0. Other tier 0s, as
While fair enough, what we gonna do about Disney Canon of the Force as well?
 
I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what you mean by that.
He meant the sources used for the justification of the Force.

Tiering: 0 The Force is an infinite, all-encompassing oneness beyond and utterly devoid of duality, as well as natural, spiritual, and metaphysical separation and differentiation. Both the Light and Dark sides of the Force, respectively, are nothing more than words of ignorance to the Force's fundamentally unknowable nature, which exceeds, as well as contains all of the supposedly distinct aspects of existence. The Force is both within and without, limitless, sublime, and wholly beyond true conception, and is ultimately andfundamentally distinct from all conceptualizations imposed upon it by the life which exists throughout it, whether it be as a non-sentient energy field governed by Midi-Chlorians, the sum and totality of all creation, an eternal entity, knowing and unknowable, the universe or existence, or even thought itself, they are all simply words, "half truths", or lies, in which it's "truth" will always be greater than any naming or conceptualization whichcan, has, or could ever be imposed upon it, none of which would ever reflect it's true nature, which defies explanation entirely.”

Just to clarify what Firestorm meant.


Nah. The closest in "canon" Legends is Jacen in Oneness but he's gonna be H1A+.
Pretty sure that is up for debate on whatever Jacen actually qualifies for High 1A isn’t it?

I remember someone questioning that part specifically for Jacen and also not sure if that was accepted
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone again with the help of HammerStrikes219 I have changed the profile a little more, I wonder if the current version meets the standards. If there is a mistake or something I misunderstood, I apologize, I would be very grateful if you show me these mistakes.
 
Since this was discussed prior I am in agreement with the tier.

However I'm not sure how we're supposed to present The Force as a profile. Like is it a location or a character?
With how I formatted it, I feel it being a location makes the most sense. Pretty similar to The Warp from W40k.
 
Yeah I'm more comfortable with the profile being a location profile.
 
I would consider The Force as a whole akin to an abstract/metaphysical entity rather than a void. There is still and underlying "will" of sorts.

I suppose an example would be the Monad God of DC Comics with its aspects of The Source and The Overvoid.
 
I personally disagree with the categorization of The Force as a location
 
If you want to slap a tier on it, then it has to warrant being a character profile.

We don't use the standard character format for verse specific powers and abilities or explanation pages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top