This match is about to get real funky!

[Armorchompy]

On his quest to collect all of the Devil's contracts, Cuphead follows the tracks of one of the last contractors all the way to a somewhat run-down pizzeria. However, the second he peeks into a window, he is met by a shotgun blast that he narrowly dodges. "I don't care who the Devil sends, I'm not giving my soul contract!" Cuphead jumps through the now cleared window, now face to face with a portly man drenched in sweat "Well, chap, you're clearly looking for a fight, and by golly, you've found one!". He lets out a scream, and both begin to get ready for a fight.

Peppino - 63593084.8 Joules in base, 440912055 with Mach Run, 539283944 Durability

Cuphead - >157080000 Joules

Cuphead is 2.47x stronger than Peppino's base AP, but Mach Run is 2.8x Cuphead's durability and Peppino's durability is 3.43x his AP.

Speed Equalized, starting distance 7.5 meters. Peppino has no equipment while Cuphead's loadout is Peashooter - Spread - Energy Beam (Super) - Smoke Bomb (Charm), willing to change any of this.

 

[Arceus0x]

Peppino leads with his mach run so i think what happens is, Peppino starts running immediately, cuphead evades, starts shooting, Peppino probably overpowers or evades the shots and just by mach running scares Cuphead into incapacitation and grabs him or hits him with a mach run. Cuphead can't get out of Peppino's grip and gets his ass combo.
Peppino can also parry Cuphead's shots and his general bullets aren't as good as his full power bullets so it'd be a lot easier for Peppino to survive, especially with his regeneration.

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

This sadly might be a stomp because Peppino's dura actually upscales a bunch from his Mach Run's AP, as he can brush off attacks that can take out Stupid Rats, with said rats being able to stonewall Peppino's Mach Run.

 

[Arceus0x]

This sadly might be a stomp because Peppino's dura actually upscales a bunch from his Mach Run's AP, as he can brush off attacks that can take out Stupid Rats, with said rats being able to stonewall Peppino's Mach Run.

Yeah and paired with Peppino's regen it gets really funky. Cuphead can barely dent Peppino enough and if he gets too close to the mach run he'll get paralyzed with fear and will absolutely get annihilated

 

[ImmortalDread]

Stomp tho

 

[Armorchompy]

just by mach running scares Cuphead into incapacitation and grabs him or hits him with a mach run.

Is that off the Social Influencing? Cause like, that seems like a very generous interpretation of things, Cuphead can probably handle things while under stress, if he even has that much reason to get scared given he's not exactly a stranger to people charging at him with ill intent.

Cuphead can't get out of Peppino's grip and gets his ass combo.

He has Smoke Bomb.

This sadly might be a stomp because Peppino's dura actually upscales a bunch from his Mach Run's AP, as he can brush off attacks that can take out Stupid Rats, with said rats being able to stonewall Peppino's Mach Run.

Ah, I see the durability, my bad. But, as far as I know, he can also hurt people that can hurt him, wouldn't that just make him just 9-A+ fully?

 

[Arceus0x]

Ah, I see the durability, my bad. But, as far as I know, he can also hurt people that can hurt him, wouldn't that just make him just 9-A+ fully

It just means they have lower dura

 

[Arceus0x]

Is that off the Social Influencing? Cause like, that seems like a very generous interpretation of things, Cuphead can probably handle things while under stress, if he even has that much reason to get scared given he's not exactly a stranger to people charging at him with ill intent.

I mean has he ever shown something of that level? Cause i feel like a probability isn't really something quantifiable.

 

[Arceus0x]

He has Smoke Bomb

Peppino usually attacks or throws right away at a speed far faster than his normal speed

 

[Shmooply]

Peppino should have enough walls and space in his pizzeria that would allow him to avoid the beam, as he has an opportunity to climb a wall or super jump to avoid it. Scattershot wouldn't be an issue for him since IIRC that version of the peashooter has worse range, and Peppino has shown to be capable of parrying multiple projectiles before.

As others have said, Peppino will begin with a Mach Run, or attempt to grab Cuphead and beat him. While Cuphead has access to Smoke Bomb, which grants him a good way to dodge, it'll only be useful the first few times at the start of the fight, as Peppino is no stranger to opponents that try to evade or run away from him. Considering the decent self-momentum Peppino has and the kinda short range of the smoke bomb, Peppino will eventually catch up to Cuphead.

The Heart charm kinda feels like a non-factor, since it'll just give Cuphead extra survivability, but would also probably screw him over since it'll weaken his AP a bit.

Cuphead could probs win by peppering him to death with the peashooter

 

[Armorchompy]

It just means they have lower dura

That would mean they'd be breaking their own limbs with every physical attack.

I mean has he ever shown something of that level? Cause i feel like a probability isn't really something quantifiable.

At what level? "Not being scared in a fight" isn't a high bar to clear, Peppino's "social influencing" barely qualifies for the power, it's not some unbeatable hax or really something that can be expected to work reliably against people who're actually capable of fighting him evenly.

Peppino usually attacks or throws right away at a speed far faster than his normal speed

Speed equal covers that, it's not an amp.

Peppino should have enough walls and space in his pizzeria that would allow him to avoid the beam, as he has an opportunity to climb a wall or super jump to avoid it.

Very fair

Scattershot wouldn't be an issue for him since IIRC that version of the peashooter has worse range, and Peppino has shown to be capable of parrying multiple projectiles before.

Scattershot is close range yes, basically just a melee tool.

As others have said, Peppino will begin with a Mach Run, or attempt to grab Cuphead and beat him. While Cuphead has access to Smoke Bomb, which grants him a good way to dodge, it'll only be useful the first few times at the start of the fight, as Peppino is no stranger to opponents that try to evade or run away from him. Considering the decent self-momentum Peppino has and the kinda short range of the smoke bomb, Peppino will eventually catch up to Cuphead.

The Heart charm kinda feels like a non-factor, since it'll just give Cuphead extra survivability, but would also probably screw him over since it'll weaken his AP a bit.

Yeah he just has that cause it's the first charm you buy, I thought it'd be a bit disingenuous to give him an optimized loadout so I just gave him the earliest available things. Though granted Smoke Bomb is probably the best charm.

Cuphead could probs win by peppering him to death with the peashooter

That's probably his best wincon, just trying to rely on his own good albeit inferior mobility and wearing him down.

 

[Arceus0x]

At what level? "Not being scared in a fight" isn't a high bar to clear, Peppino's "social influencing" barely qualifies for the power, it's not some unbeatable hax or really something that can be expected to work reliably against people who're actually capable of fighting him evenly.

This isn't "being scared in a fight" this is "someone rushing at you so fast it creates a shockwave around him".

Speed equal covers that, it's not an amp.

No, Peppino starts at a lower speed and then slowly accelerates to mach run which becomes faster the longer he runs

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Ah, I see the durability, my bad. But, as far as I know, he can also hurt people that can hurt him, wouldn't that just make him just 9-A+ fully?

Wouldn't that create circular scaling? Like Peppino (Can harm those who can harm) > Stupid Rats (Who no-sell Peppino's attacks) > Peppino

 

[Armorchompy]

This isn't "being scared in a fight" this is "someone rushing at you so fast it creates a shockwave around him".

Which... is a scary thing. But not supernaturally scary, it's nothing you can't be brave enough to react to or get used to

No, Peppino starts at a lower speed and then slowly accelerates to mach run which becomes faster the longer he runs

Speed equals to combat speed, not movement speed. I definitely agree that Peppino can run faster than his overall combat speed with enough momentum but that doesn't mean he will be punching faster.

Wouldn't that create circular scaling? Like Peppino (Can harm those who can harm) > Stupid Rats (Who no-sell Peppino's attacks) > Peppino

Good point. Maybe it's kinda like Metroid where there's a bunch of different things that can be only be destroyed by respective attacks?

 

[Arceus0x]

That would mean they'd be breaking their own limbs with every physical attack.

You don't break a leg everytime you kick

 

[Armorchompy]

You don't break a leg everytime you kick

I would if I kicked ten times harder than what my bones could endure

 

[Shmooply]

the bones in his legs are non-existent because of those goofy ahh mach runs fr fr

 

[Arceus0x]

Which... is a scary thing. But not supernaturally scary, it's nothing you can't be brave enough to react to or get used to

Which is why I'm asking you to show me an instance where he faced a comparable event

Speed equals to combat speed, not movement speed. I definitely agree that Peppino can run faster than his overall combat speed with enough momentum but that doesn't mean he will be punching faster.

Yes but his main attack is him rushing and bashing enemies so Cuphead would be facing that and have to react to it

 

[Arceus0x]

I would if I kicked ten times harder than what my bones could endure

Yeah but the difference is not that big here

 

[Arceus0x]

Also peppino does get hurt and break teeth and such from crashing at max speed it's just that he regenerates immediately

 

[Armorchompy]

Which is why I'm asking you to show me an instance where he faced a comparable event

I don't need to prove that this guy who's been in over 30 life or death fights doesn't suddenly get paralyzed by someone running at him very fast, he's fought literal Satan whose pupils alone are like ten meters tall, I think that's a bit scarier

Yes but his main attack is him rushing and bashing enemies so Cuphead would be facing that and have to react to it

I'm not denying that it's a strong tool but Peppino isn't seeing any faster than Cuphead, he can't adjust too much given that he'll lose his momentum if he does, and a well-timed Smoke Bomb allows him to go through the dash unharmed.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah but the difference is not that big here

Gap between Mach Run and basic AP is 6.93x, add upscaling to it and I'd say it's not too far off.

Also peppino does get hurt and break teeth and such from crashing at max speed it's just that he regenerates immediately

I said the bosses tho

 

[Arceus0x]

I don't need to prove that this guy who's been in over 30 life or death fights doesn't suddenly get paralyzed by someone running at him very fast, he's fought literal Satan whose pupils alone are like ten meters tall, I think that's a bit scarier

like i said, still a different kind of scary. This isn't a character using fear tactics, it's more akin to a jumpscare. Like the fear you'd feel if a car suddenly started driving at you at full speed.

I'm not denying that it's a strong tool but Peppino isn't seeing any faster than Cuphead, he can't adjust too much given that he'll lose his momentum if he does, and a well-timed Smoke Bomb allows him to go through the dash unharmed.

Peppino can very much control how he jumps and weaves and more while running at top speed. There is even a section in the tutorial specifically for controlling when you stop so you both save momentum, not bash into a wall and start running the opposite direction the moment you fall down. There are sections when you'd have to run at mach 2-3 and slide under obstacles in specific moments and jump right on time and more.
Basically, Peppino can very much adjust his speed even at his mach 4 run but the moment he tries to turn around it'll drop to mach 3.

I said the bosses tho

wasn't replying to you

 

[Armorchompy]

like i said, still a different kind of scary. This isn't a character using fear tactics, it's more akin to a jumpscare. Like the fear you'd feel if a car suddenly started driving at you at full speed.

Except that unlike a "jumpscare" (which is very much in the realm of what literally anyone used to fighting could quickly react to especially if already braced for a fight), there's a couple moments of buildup for Peppino to really start moving.

This is literally the most nothing thing ever, you're taking some clueless mooks getting scared of a guy running at them with clear intent to kill them and turning it into "oh cuphead would be completely paralyzed and unable to do anything because it'd be SO scary" nah man if a car started driving at me id try to get out of the way, would probably get ran over anyways but I'd try lol.

Peppino can very much control how he jumps and weaves and more while running at top speed. There is even a section in the tutorial specifically for controlling when you stop so you both save momentum, not bash into a wall and start running the opposite direction the moment you fall down. There are sections when you'd have to run at mach 2-3 and slide under obstacles in specific moments and jump right on time and more.

Yeah I know but there's a limit to that, he needs to handle his momentum, he can't just turn on a dime or he'll lose speed.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah I know but there's a limit to that, he needs to handle his momentum, he can't just turn on a dime or he'll lose speed.

yes but he can indeed just turn around very fast so while it would cause him some issue, he wouldn't technically need to go from mach 1 to mach 4 again every time he turns around. Additionally if he does the grab dash, which is instant, he can return to his mach 2 and 3 speeds way faster.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean yeah he definitely has insane mobility, I'm not debating that, I'm just saying that there is some counterplay, especially since Cuphead can basically force him to do a 180° by dashing through him with Smoke Bomb.

 

[Arceus0x]

I mean yeah he definitely has insane mobility, I'm not debating that, I'm just saying that there is some counterplay, especially since Cuphead can basically force him to do a 180° by dashing through him with Smoke Bomb.

that's the thing, he does 180° pretty damn good

 

[Armorchompy]

Fair enough, though he does lose speed in the first instance. I dunno, I don't think he's moving so much faster than his base speed that it'd be impossible to react to and he needs to drift a bit, I think Cuphead isn't hopelessly outmatched in trying to avoid it so it isn't easy.

For the record I don't necessarily think Cuphead wins here, I'm just trying to play neutral party, hopefully some supporters show up. Also, as a note, I realized you can only hold one Charm at a time in Cuphead, so out of the two initially available ones, given Heart is basically useless I'm gonna give him Smoke Bomb.

 

[Arceus0x]

Fair enough, though he does lose speed in the first instance. I dunno, I don't think he's moving so much faster than his base speed that it'd be impossible to react to and he needs to drift a bit, I think Cuphead isn't hopelessly outmatched in trying to avoid it so it isn't easy.

Not saying that he is hopelessly outmatched, he clearly stands a chance when it comes to dodging, but i do have to remind you that his base speed is his casual walking speed which is leagues lower.

For the record I don't necessarily think Cuphead wins here, I'm just trying to play neutral party, hopefully some supporters show up. Also, as a note, I realized you can only hold one Charm at a time in Cuphead, so out of the two initially available ones, given Heart is basically useless I'm gonna give him Smoke Bomb.

don't we usually have the option to give the characters their entire arsenal or an option to swtich between items? Like afaik we do that with characters with loads of equipment

 

[Armorchompy]

Not saying that he is hopelessly outmatched, he clearly stands a chance when it comes to dodging, but i do have to remind you that his base speed is his casual walking speed which is leagues lower.

The speed that's equalized to is combat speed, not movement speed. In Peppino's case his calc is the grab dash's speed, which I think is comparable to what, mach 2?

don't we usually have the option to give the characters their entire arsenal or an option to swtich between items? Like afaik we do that with characters with loads of equipment

I don't really know if it's an unspoken rule or just something that people do and that's never been disagreed with, but I've always really disliked that, personally.

 

[Arceus0x]

The speed that's equalized to is combat speed, not movement speed. In Peppino's case his calc is the grab dash's speed, which I think is comparable to what, mach 2?

well yeah technically.
He can maneuver at mach 3 though which is still faster. Like i get it, not too fast, but fast enough to make a difference.

I don't really know if it's an unspoken rule or just something that people do and that's never been disagreed with, but I've always really disliked that, personally.

i like it cause otherwise i can just give my character the strongest equipment he has and let him nuke his opponent. Same goes for why we give rpg characters with limited moves their entire attack list, cause otherwise one could specifically pick things that would land a victory or the opposite of that.

 

[Armorchompy]

well yeah technically.
He can maneuver at mach 3 though which is still faster. Like i get it, not too fast, but fast enough to make a difference.

Very fair.

i like it cause otherwise i can just give my character the strongest equipment he has and let him nuke his opponent. Same goes for why we give rpg characters with limited moves their entire attack list, cause otherwise one could specifically pick things that would land a victory or the opposite of that.

I guess it depends on the character for the former, but I feel like it's sometimes effectively the same as ignoring their weaknesses, since they aren't able to wield more than X things at once.

Though, speaking of strongest equipment, I did just remember of the Divine Charm in Cuphead, which just a purposefully really strong one that gives you four other Charms' worth of powers at once and lets you switch between all shot types at will, so, I guess that's just a thing he has. I'd feel a little weird just changing it mid-discussion so is uh, is that ok.

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[koopa3144]

I'm gonna note that Cuphead's profile is missing some stuff from the DLC, nothing major though iirc.

 

[Armorchompy]

I've actually began working on a revision since Cuphead profiles are in a pretty poor state. Nothing big P&A-wise but, ye. I guess it may end up in an AP change given that I'm not sure our currently used size for him is accurate, which would affect calcs. Speed will definitely change but that doesn't really matter

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Funky match

No Funky Kong

Sad

 

[The_Pink_God]

so is this being put on hold?

 

[Arceus0x]

so is this being put on hold?

I mean considering the stuff we're planning we might as well do this since AP ratings are gonna be very different.

 

[Shmooply]

I mean considering the stuff we're planning we might as well do this since AP ratings are gonna be very different.

Pretty sure Cuphead will only have that high AP rating for his DLC key.