XitSign
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Well, time's up everyone, the forum move is in full swing and we can't do much until everything gets done and the dust settles. On top of that, the statistics I wanted to work with didn't get checked in time (understandable, I'm sure everyone's just a LITTLE busy right now), so for multiple reasons we can't do a real CRT.
...But that doesn't mean we can't talk about it, get feedback, and use that information to make a proper CRT later.
Don't worry, all the information in this thread will be saved for later, so none of this is getting lost in the forum move. I'm just a little antsy, I've been wanting to do these revisions for a while, and at the very least we can talk about it if nothing else.
Most of this comes from the Puzzle and Dragons X Anime series that I suffered through, so I'll do my best to provide screenshots with as much of this information as I can as well as episode numbers (However the anime is painfully bad and I beg you never watch it, it took years off my life), however the mobile game information I'll need to direct you to the PAD Database because some of this information is seasonal and won't be available for screen capture on demand.
--- General Ability Additions ---
Enhanced Senses - Orbs/Drops are an energy source in the atmosphere that characters can tap into to increase the power of their attacks, heal themselves, or trigger other special effects. They're in everything PAD related, but the PADX anime reveals that they're invisible, and only monsters, Dragonoids, and special humans can see them.
Ace pointing out Haru can't see Drops/Orbs Episode 1
Ace thinking about Haru's determination to gain the ability / followed by him realizing he's STARTING to see Drops/Orbs Episode 1
The SDF (government branch that deals with Orbs and Monsters) claiming to be working on technology to see these Orbs / Followed up in Episode 27 where Haru still can't see Orbs / But the arena they're watching from / has installed monitors that can show orbs to everyone who can't see Episode 1 and Episode 27
Ace sees the action of the battle / to which Devi is surprised he can see the Drops/Orbs Episode 1
Charo notes that Ace can see Drops/Orbs excitedly. Episode 2
I think you get the picture, I can keep listing times this happens but it's very clear that this energy source isn't normally supposed to be seen by people, so characters who can interact with it clearly have some sort of enhanced sense.
But that's not the only invisible thing they can pick up on. Episode 16's plot involves a ghost haunting a mansion, the soul of a deceased Dragon Caller and his Toyceratops that has been guarding his home since his death.
We see him holding his Toyceratops (Non-Physical Interaction, but there's already ghost and intangible foes in the series so this ability has already been on the pages) / and we see him petting Toyceratops, but he has no reflection, supporting the fact that 'normal' people haven't been able to see him and spreading the ghost rumor because of it
So monsters, dragonoids, and humans with special abilities can pick up on a variety of normally invisible things. This goes for ALMOST everyone in the franchise. With the exception of possibly 2 noteworthy characters, everyone and everything uses Drops/Orbs, so this should be a standard ability.
Damage Boost - As mentioned above, the use of Orbs/Drops in the games has always been as a power source, using them increases the power of monsters and characters for an attack. This has always been directly referenced in-lore too, but we never listed it as a Damage Boost which we probably should, since the orbs empower the 'attack' not the character.
Some characters can still boost their own statistics, so for a lot of them Statistic Amplification won't go away, but Damage Boost should be added.
Ace pointing out that Lance's monster absorbed the drops / Devi explaining that it gives the monster more power Episode 1
However, ontop of this, the Damage Boost should be further supported by the Link Orb and Combo system. In the games, Linking Orbs increases the power of this boost depending on how many orbs (beyond the first three) were linked (5 gives a bigger boost than 4, for example) AND the amount of orb chains you link at a time also increases the power of the attack (having 4 combos in an attack is a bigger boost than 3)
We've always disregarded this system though because it seems really game-y, right?
...Well it's not. The anime directly references it both in attacks and in character dialogue, meaning Linked Orb chains and Combos are actual strategies in-universe, they're not game mechanics, they're real.
Lance's Crystal Aurora Dragon being powered up by a 5 Combo during a battle / Garnet making fun of Ace for only using a 1 combo Episode 1 and Episode 2
Combos and Linked Orbs are happening all the time, and even just using Orbs is a power up, and they're all considered real in-lore, so I think it's safe to say Damage Boost is a standard ability all of these characters have since they can multiply their attack's powers at a moment's notice.
Officially, extra orbs in a chain are an additional 25% power each, and each combo is an additional 25% power, for reference.
Special Note: Some characters have absorption abilities where they can nullify damage and heal themselves based on the energy of incoming attacks if they're not a high enough combo. With the information that combos are canon and not game mechanics that means the verse-equalization rules for those abilities will be...interesting. But that bridge can be crossed later.
--- High Tier Upgrades ---
PAD's High Tiers have been a bit of a pain and controversial, which was the main point of me wanting to do revisions and get information from the anime to clear things up. Thanks to the anime our original 'God Tiers' need an upgrade, a new even higher tier needs to be added for the cast, and we have a TRUE God Tier who is even more powerful than this new tier addition, so lets knock them out.
For some context before we move on, every monster and most characters in the series get Star rankings that denote how rare and powerful they are. This system was determined to be strangely consistent as characters in the same star rank tend to have both similar in-game stats (game mechanics, I know), similar evolution paths (kind of like how Pokemon scale to one another), and weirdly similar feats of power.
Whether the writers were trying to keep their power levels consistent or it was just a coincidence, we may never know, but the star rating system does a really good job pointing out which characters should be comparable. Higher stars tend to win fights over lower stars, have similar feats, and have much more even fights with each other. Plus higher star feats tend to be absurdly more powerful in nature than lower star feats (3 Stars have feats scaling to natural lightning, while 4 stars have feats of shaking continents, creating holes to the planet's core, and completely covering the planet in energy, just for example)
--- The original 'God Tier's, 5 Star Monsters - 9 Star Monsters ---
Currently, 5 Star monsters are scaled to 5-B based on Vritra's 'Annihilation of a world' statement (as well as support of similar statements from characters like Zuoh ). However this feat has had some controversy because there's a large range of interpretation of how powerful that should be without visual aid.
HOWEVER, by some sheer coincidence to fix this issue, another one of the 5-Star Legendary dragons, who should be comparable if not weaker than the other 5-stars due to it's status as being one of the weakest of it's kind, actually has a feat we get to see on-screen, Idia
In Episode 48 Idia teams up with the protagonist Ace by becoming a Dragon Shard, half of an artifact known as the Three Moon Compass. In Episode 49 , Awoken Zeus uses his power to make the other half of the Three Moon Compass, and the two are put together.
I can not stress this enough, Zeus used his power to make half of this artifact, but Idia IS the other half, it is INSIDE of this artifact at this point.
They use this artifact to guide them to Stella, the land of the Star People, who guard the Star Fragments, and are protected by the Starjohn family. They're very themed around stars. Need to make that clear too.
At the end of Episode 49 , The compass takes them to this location by firing a beam of light energy into the sky (one that is very similar to Idia's own Light-based attacks) and the beam makes several new stars appear in the starry night sky.
This feat's energy AND speed were both calced, but have yet to be checked.
The result (currently) for creating the stars was found by overlapping the frames, showing by my count 38 stars being created. 4-C is a pretty small tier, under a 6x difference from low to high, so making that many stars (and possibly more since only one section of the sky was shown) pretty easily takes a feat like that into High 4-C
The speed was also calced by finding the speed it would take to reach the closest star (Alpha Centauri) in 4 seconds, getting 33933615.08 c, Massively FTL+
These were feats that should directly be attributed to Idia, as it was the one that's INSIDE of this object, and the light beam is visually similar to a standard Light attack. I believe that this also falls in line with characters like Vritra and Zuoh's statements of 'destroying worlds' as well as their ability to fly to new planets after they've been destroyed (spaceflight).
There is also more supporting evidence from stronger characters, such as Base Zeus having an attack called 'Supernova' and Awoken Zeus Stratios having an attack called 'Black Hole', however neither of these attacks have been shown in animation yet. There is also Azathoth who is dipected as being large enough to eat planets ranging from Earth-sized to Gas Giants , casually.
And finally, during Episode 67 , Ace meets up with Ra at daw , and for some reason that's hilariously not explained, Ra decides to leave the conversation dramatically by making it mid-day while teleporting away . I suppose to flex how he's the god of the sun and doesn't have time for this? But he either moved the planet or sun to change what part of the day it was, considering what he's the god of it seems most likely he moved the Sun. Later in the same episode, once Ace complete's Ra's first challenge he reappears just as a Solar Eclipse involving all three moons (this planet has three moons, roll with it) occurs and it doesn't end until Ra and Ace's battle ends and Ra joins Ace at the end of the episode.
And I do understand that these are mostly only statements, things only told in stories or in info-boxes, but the size of these statements, as well as Ra having power over the sun and possibly moons, line up with the cosmic size of Idia's feat inside of the Three Moon Compass, so I believe they are at least somewhat supportive.
Onto 6 Star - 9 Star...unfortunately we don't have much for now. These characters don't have many feats, they appear much rarer in stories and usually their feats are just stomping weaker monsters (Calamity Immortal Dragon, Cursed Wyrm oneshot Idia for example), or having feats they do casually (like Ra and Azathoth above). The best we can currently do is upscale them from Idia's High 4-C because they easily curbstomp the lower monsters any time they make their appearance.
TLDR: The 5 Star to 9 Star ranks I believe should scale off of Idia's High 4-C with how many feats and statements we have that can support this not being an outlier, and likely scale to a Massively FTL+ attack and combat speed.
--- The New 'High Tiers', 10 Star Monsters ---
10 Star Monsters, by the evidence we have, should logically be much stronger than 9 Star Monsters, meaning they should be ridiculously superior to the 5 Stars and the High 4-C I believe they should be scaled to.
But unlike the others, 10 Stars may not have to just upscale, because despite their rarity and how few are actually in this entire franchise, 1 actually appeared in Puzzle and Dragons X and flexed her might just a little bit. Burning Time Dragonbound, Myr .
Myr appears in Episode 47, using her abilities as the guardian of time to show Ace some of his father's history, as well as showing a flashback where she did the same for Ace's father before befriending him and becoming his ally.
She does this, after she's released , through her own dimension filled with stars , and that she shows off some control of by letting her dragon pass in and out, creating massive gears, and a clock face for her time motif . She does the same for Ace's Father in a flashback, and the episode ends with this dimension vanishing as Myr returns back to her egg.
Later in Episode 84, Jest is pulled into Dafnes' ow pocket dimension as her way of containing him after his defeat, and revenge for murdering her (spoilers, I guess? But I legitimately hope none of you watch this anime, it's awful and 89 episodes long). And he points out that these dimensions are housed WITHIN the perso who controls them. So Myr doesn't just HAVE this dimension, she IS her own starry-sky dimension.
And an interesting power consistency. As we see with Dafnes' dimension,she does not have stars in the sky. It's a normal sky with possibly a sun-like light source but nothing else . Meanwhile Myr's had seemingly countless stars. This is interesting because Dafnes is a 8 Star, while Myr is a 10 Star, meaning Myr SHOULD be significantly more powerful, possibly the explanation for why Dafnes' Pocket Dimension seems smaller in scale.
Anyways, I think you've already seen where all of this is going, I believe we have enough for this to be a typical 4-A "Countless stars in the sky dimension" feat. Myr is in complete control of his dimension and it's location is within her very body. Plus she is supposed to be ridiculously stronger than the rest of the cast.
--- The New God Tier ---
We got a 'creator god' type character in the PAD X anime as the final big-bad, so a clear contender for the new true God Tier of the verse. Terra Dragon is only seen right at the end, Episode 88 and Episode 89, but it is revealed that he not just created the world this series takes place o and all the life on them, but mulitple worlds i the past . He's massively superior to every other character, so much so that the final fight against him, where Ace, Lance, and King all team up with their monsters, was a total stompfest and they couldn't even damage him. They 'won' by begging and pleading with the Terra Dragon to allow their world to continue to exist. Even an attack that had a combo for 'every life othe planet' didn't do anything, Terra Dragon just dissolved the attack with ease.
However Terra Dragon's true scale and power is pointed out to us here, that Terra Dragon is 'everything that can be seen' , and what was fought was just an avatar of Terra Dragon.
There's a few ways to interpret that line, being 'everything' that can be seen. At the very smallest it's the entire space of stars, which is 4-A, but can possibly be as high as meaning that Terra Dragon IS the universe, either 3-A or High 3-A
I believe with this context for what Terra Dragon is, a unique rating from the rest of the cast of "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A to High 3-A" is the most fitting.
To our knowledge, Terra Dragon has no peer or rival in it's power, and it is only challenged by Prime Dragon Eidos who is still shrouded in mystery (being an 'ultimate creator' who created even the concepts of the universe), but it's unclear if Terra Dragon is Eidos, or if Eidos is yet an even higher beings. Until that information is revealed, Terra Dragon should be our 'God Tier'
--- Element and Season Variants ---
So that's a lot of numbers and feats, lets shift to something more fun. Lets explain elemental variants and seasonal variants.
PAD has a LOT of characters that are (at least originally) pallet swaps of one another. And it also has a lot of special event versions of characters (such as being themed around holidays, or events like school and the beach), however PAD's explanation of these alternate versions of characters is shaky, and has been hard to determine what should be it's own profile and what should be a key.
Thankfully, both the PAD X anime and a little research from the online stories and mobile game events has a much more clear answer.
First, elemental variants ARE unique characters. This is explained in PAD X's Episode 65 (a 'behind the scenes' episode) where it is explained using Sonia, where it's revealed that the franchises many 'Sonias' are all sisters but unique people. This is also supported by the PAD Island event, where the final boss is "Paradise Celeb, Hera-Is", a version of Hera-Is, who can have various reactions to the characters you bring to fight her. If she sees Zeus-Mercury (The water Zeus counterpart), and Zeus-Mercury only, she will become excited and reward the player. However if she sees Zeus-Mercury and another Hera of a different element she'll become aggressive with her counterpart. The take-away is that she doesn't care if a different version of Zeus is with another Hera, but HER Zeus she dislikes being with other Heras.
So we have one character admitting there's a difference between elemental variants, and another directly interacting with elemental variants in unique ways, I think it's clear-cut that they are their own unique characters. (There are even more examples of this, like Hera-Beorc only reacting to Zeus-Jupiter during the wedding event)
However, seasonal events a little trickier. They're occasionally acknowledged by the online stories but they're much more rarely talked about, and flip-floped if they are their own 'versions' of the characters or just another form/phase of their life. However, in the above example with "Paradise Celeb, Hera-Is", she does NOT get aggressive with the normal version of Hera-Is, which at least implies that they are the same character, or she at least recognizes Hera-Is as herself.
So I think the current stance should be that Elemental Variants deserve their own pages, they each have their own character, personalities, and divergent stories. However Seasonal and Event Variants should be on their corresponding 'normal' form's page as a separate key for now.
--- Collaborations ---
ITS THE MOMENT YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR.
If you don't play PAD, but you know what it is, you probably know it for one reason: It's a hub for a LOT of crossover events.
I don't know how, or why, but Puzzle and Dragons attracts a lot of attention and has guest characters very frequently, or do collaborative efforts with groups.
However, VS Wiki has rules that define when a Crossover version of a character is acceptable for a profile, so lets run down the three types of PAD crossovers and talk about what they're like so it can be clearer which should and shouldn't be on the Wiki.
- Unique Creation Collaborations
These crossovers easily fit into the first rule for crossovers, they're unique creations made through the collaborative effort. They should be allowed, no questions asked.
This includes collabs like Hello Kitty (Which had 'fusions' between Puzzle and Dragons characters and the Hello Kitty cast to make unique new characters .), Android (Where they transformed the Android mascot into a dragon-like monster ), and Takaoka City (A collaboration that took insperatio of the culture and mascots of a real-world city for creating new monsters.)
- Permanent Collaborations
These collaboration deals are ones that are either in-house and already owned by Gung-Ho or have struck some sort of deal to make them permanent additions to the cast. These collaborations have 'adopted' these characters for an indefinite amount of time. I think these ones fall under the second category of relevant guest characters.
These include Gung-ho's series that they've integrated into the games (including Princess Punt, Divine Gate, Calcio Fantasia, and many more), and franchises that aren't GungHo related but are on the permanent roster including GROOVE COASTER, Taiko no Tatsujin, and Gunma.
- Rotation Collaborations
Finally the trickiest collection of collaborations, they do their crossovers straight, and they are not always available but are instead situational, occasionally coming in and out of availability just like seasonal events and special dungeons. These ones ride the fence when it comes to the collaboration rules in my eyes, and I feel they can go either way, especially from collaboration to collaborations.
These events do adapt the crossover characters into PAD, giving them new powers and abilities to make them comparable to the already established cast. They are also explained in the retail release of PADZ on the Nintendo 3DS as being worlds that the Dragon Alter can open portals to, and thus allow them into PAD's universe.
Some series do a two-way event like Dragon's Dogma and Angry Birds, while others just have their characters crossover only into the PAD universe to team up with the players and already establish characters in various dungeons, challenges, and special events, becoming permanent members of the team.
There's a lot of wiggle room here for interpretation for if this last collection deserve profiles. Some crossover 'more' than others, and I've already seen a few users and even a staff member debate which ones should be allowed, so this one is definitely touch-and-go, and will depend on the collaboration and what was done with the crossover. However I personally believe the fact that these crossovers made it into a retail version of these games with an in-lore explanation lends credibility to them being viable crossovers.
--- Conclusion, AKA the TLDR ---
- Enhanced Senses and Damage Boost should be added to every profile as a verse-standard ability.
- 5 Star Monsters should scale to Idia's High 4-C and MFTL+ Feats, 6 Star - 9 Star Monsters should upscale via being able to stomp with ease and doing similar or comparable feats casually.
- Myr, her counterparts, and the other 10 Star Monsters should scale to 4-A
- Terra Dragon should have a unique rating of 'At least 4-A, possibly 3-A to High 3-A'
- Elemental Variants are their own unique characters who deserve their own unique profiles
- Seasonal and Event Variants are most likely the original character in a new scenario and should be a separate key on the original profile
- Collaborations have varying levels of quality and may need to be judged on a case-by-case basis. Some are clearly transformative or create original characters and should be allowed, others are officially part of the roster and should be allowed, the rest have in-universe explanations and evidence going for them but some might be 'better' than others by wiki standards.
...But that doesn't mean we can't talk about it, get feedback, and use that information to make a proper CRT later.
Don't worry, all the information in this thread will be saved for later, so none of this is getting lost in the forum move. I'm just a little antsy, I've been wanting to do these revisions for a while, and at the very least we can talk about it if nothing else.
Most of this comes from the Puzzle and Dragons X Anime series that I suffered through, so I'll do my best to provide screenshots with as much of this information as I can as well as episode numbers (However the anime is painfully bad and I beg you never watch it, it took years off my life), however the mobile game information I'll need to direct you to the PAD Database because some of this information is seasonal and won't be available for screen capture on demand.
--- General Ability Additions ---
Enhanced Senses - Orbs/Drops are an energy source in the atmosphere that characters can tap into to increase the power of their attacks, heal themselves, or trigger other special effects. They're in everything PAD related, but the PADX anime reveals that they're invisible, and only monsters, Dragonoids, and special humans can see them.
Ace pointing out Haru can't see Drops/Orbs Episode 1
Ace thinking about Haru's determination to gain the ability / followed by him realizing he's STARTING to see Drops/Orbs Episode 1
The SDF (government branch that deals with Orbs and Monsters) claiming to be working on technology to see these Orbs / Followed up in Episode 27 where Haru still can't see Orbs / But the arena they're watching from / has installed monitors that can show orbs to everyone who can't see Episode 1 and Episode 27
Ace sees the action of the battle / to which Devi is surprised he can see the Drops/Orbs Episode 1
Charo notes that Ace can see Drops/Orbs excitedly. Episode 2
I think you get the picture, I can keep listing times this happens but it's very clear that this energy source isn't normally supposed to be seen by people, so characters who can interact with it clearly have some sort of enhanced sense.
But that's not the only invisible thing they can pick up on. Episode 16's plot involves a ghost haunting a mansion, the soul of a deceased Dragon Caller and his Toyceratops that has been guarding his home since his death.
We see him holding his Toyceratops (Non-Physical Interaction, but there's already ghost and intangible foes in the series so this ability has already been on the pages) / and we see him petting Toyceratops, but he has no reflection, supporting the fact that 'normal' people haven't been able to see him and spreading the ghost rumor because of it
So monsters, dragonoids, and humans with special abilities can pick up on a variety of normally invisible things. This goes for ALMOST everyone in the franchise. With the exception of possibly 2 noteworthy characters, everyone and everything uses Drops/Orbs, so this should be a standard ability.
Damage Boost - As mentioned above, the use of Orbs/Drops in the games has always been as a power source, using them increases the power of monsters and characters for an attack. This has always been directly referenced in-lore too, but we never listed it as a Damage Boost which we probably should, since the orbs empower the 'attack' not the character.
Some characters can still boost their own statistics, so for a lot of them Statistic Amplification won't go away, but Damage Boost should be added.
Ace pointing out that Lance's monster absorbed the drops / Devi explaining that it gives the monster more power Episode 1
However, ontop of this, the Damage Boost should be further supported by the Link Orb and Combo system. In the games, Linking Orbs increases the power of this boost depending on how many orbs (beyond the first three) were linked (5 gives a bigger boost than 4, for example) AND the amount of orb chains you link at a time also increases the power of the attack (having 4 combos in an attack is a bigger boost than 3)
We've always disregarded this system though because it seems really game-y, right?
...Well it's not. The anime directly references it both in attacks and in character dialogue, meaning Linked Orb chains and Combos are actual strategies in-universe, they're not game mechanics, they're real.
Lance's Crystal Aurora Dragon being powered up by a 5 Combo during a battle / Garnet making fun of Ace for only using a 1 combo Episode 1 and Episode 2
Combos and Linked Orbs are happening all the time, and even just using Orbs is a power up, and they're all considered real in-lore, so I think it's safe to say Damage Boost is a standard ability all of these characters have since they can multiply their attack's powers at a moment's notice.
Officially, extra orbs in a chain are an additional 25% power each, and each combo is an additional 25% power, for reference.
Special Note: Some characters have absorption abilities where they can nullify damage and heal themselves based on the energy of incoming attacks if they're not a high enough combo. With the information that combos are canon and not game mechanics that means the verse-equalization rules for those abilities will be...interesting. But that bridge can be crossed later.
--- High Tier Upgrades ---
PAD's High Tiers have been a bit of a pain and controversial, which was the main point of me wanting to do revisions and get information from the anime to clear things up. Thanks to the anime our original 'God Tiers' need an upgrade, a new even higher tier needs to be added for the cast, and we have a TRUE God Tier who is even more powerful than this new tier addition, so lets knock them out.
For some context before we move on, every monster and most characters in the series get Star rankings that denote how rare and powerful they are. This system was determined to be strangely consistent as characters in the same star rank tend to have both similar in-game stats (game mechanics, I know), similar evolution paths (kind of like how Pokemon scale to one another), and weirdly similar feats of power.
Whether the writers were trying to keep their power levels consistent or it was just a coincidence, we may never know, but the star rating system does a really good job pointing out which characters should be comparable. Higher stars tend to win fights over lower stars, have similar feats, and have much more even fights with each other. Plus higher star feats tend to be absurdly more powerful in nature than lower star feats (3 Stars have feats scaling to natural lightning, while 4 stars have feats of shaking continents, creating holes to the planet's core, and completely covering the planet in energy, just for example)
--- The original 'God Tier's, 5 Star Monsters - 9 Star Monsters ---
Currently, 5 Star monsters are scaled to 5-B based on Vritra's 'Annihilation of a world' statement (as well as support of similar statements from characters like Zuoh ). However this feat has had some controversy because there's a large range of interpretation of how powerful that should be without visual aid.
HOWEVER, by some sheer coincidence to fix this issue, another one of the 5-Star Legendary dragons, who should be comparable if not weaker than the other 5-stars due to it's status as being one of the weakest of it's kind, actually has a feat we get to see on-screen, Idia
In Episode 48 Idia teams up with the protagonist Ace by becoming a Dragon Shard, half of an artifact known as the Three Moon Compass. In Episode 49 , Awoken Zeus uses his power to make the other half of the Three Moon Compass, and the two are put together.
I can not stress this enough, Zeus used his power to make half of this artifact, but Idia IS the other half, it is INSIDE of this artifact at this point.
They use this artifact to guide them to Stella, the land of the Star People, who guard the Star Fragments, and are protected by the Starjohn family. They're very themed around stars. Need to make that clear too.
At the end of Episode 49 , The compass takes them to this location by firing a beam of light energy into the sky (one that is very similar to Idia's own Light-based attacks) and the beam makes several new stars appear in the starry night sky.
This feat's energy AND speed were both calced, but have yet to be checked.
The result (currently) for creating the stars was found by overlapping the frames, showing by my count 38 stars being created. 4-C is a pretty small tier, under a 6x difference from low to high, so making that many stars (and possibly more since only one section of the sky was shown) pretty easily takes a feat like that into High 4-C
The speed was also calced by finding the speed it would take to reach the closest star (Alpha Centauri) in 4 seconds, getting 33933615.08 c, Massively FTL+
These were feats that should directly be attributed to Idia, as it was the one that's INSIDE of this object, and the light beam is visually similar to a standard Light attack. I believe that this also falls in line with characters like Vritra and Zuoh's statements of 'destroying worlds' as well as their ability to fly to new planets after they've been destroyed (spaceflight).
There is also more supporting evidence from stronger characters, such as Base Zeus having an attack called 'Supernova' and Awoken Zeus Stratios having an attack called 'Black Hole', however neither of these attacks have been shown in animation yet. There is also Azathoth who is dipected as being large enough to eat planets ranging from Earth-sized to Gas Giants , casually.
And finally, during Episode 67 , Ace meets up with Ra at daw , and for some reason that's hilariously not explained, Ra decides to leave the conversation dramatically by making it mid-day while teleporting away . I suppose to flex how he's the god of the sun and doesn't have time for this? But he either moved the planet or sun to change what part of the day it was, considering what he's the god of it seems most likely he moved the Sun. Later in the same episode, once Ace complete's Ra's first challenge he reappears just as a Solar Eclipse involving all three moons (this planet has three moons, roll with it) occurs and it doesn't end until Ra and Ace's battle ends and Ra joins Ace at the end of the episode.
And I do understand that these are mostly only statements, things only told in stories or in info-boxes, but the size of these statements, as well as Ra having power over the sun and possibly moons, line up with the cosmic size of Idia's feat inside of the Three Moon Compass, so I believe they are at least somewhat supportive.
Onto 6 Star - 9 Star...unfortunately we don't have much for now. These characters don't have many feats, they appear much rarer in stories and usually their feats are just stomping weaker monsters (Calamity Immortal Dragon, Cursed Wyrm oneshot Idia for example), or having feats they do casually (like Ra and Azathoth above). The best we can currently do is upscale them from Idia's High 4-C because they easily curbstomp the lower monsters any time they make their appearance.
TLDR: The 5 Star to 9 Star ranks I believe should scale off of Idia's High 4-C with how many feats and statements we have that can support this not being an outlier, and likely scale to a Massively FTL+ attack and combat speed.
--- The New 'High Tiers', 10 Star Monsters ---
10 Star Monsters, by the evidence we have, should logically be much stronger than 9 Star Monsters, meaning they should be ridiculously superior to the 5 Stars and the High 4-C I believe they should be scaled to.
But unlike the others, 10 Stars may not have to just upscale, because despite their rarity and how few are actually in this entire franchise, 1 actually appeared in Puzzle and Dragons X and flexed her might just a little bit. Burning Time Dragonbound, Myr .
Myr appears in Episode 47, using her abilities as the guardian of time to show Ace some of his father's history, as well as showing a flashback where she did the same for Ace's father before befriending him and becoming his ally.
She does this, after she's released , through her own dimension filled with stars , and that she shows off some control of by letting her dragon pass in and out, creating massive gears, and a clock face for her time motif . She does the same for Ace's Father in a flashback, and the episode ends with this dimension vanishing as Myr returns back to her egg.
Later in Episode 84, Jest is pulled into Dafnes' ow pocket dimension as her way of containing him after his defeat, and revenge for murdering her (spoilers, I guess? But I legitimately hope none of you watch this anime, it's awful and 89 episodes long). And he points out that these dimensions are housed WITHIN the perso who controls them. So Myr doesn't just HAVE this dimension, she IS her own starry-sky dimension.
And an interesting power consistency. As we see with Dafnes' dimension,she does not have stars in the sky. It's a normal sky with possibly a sun-like light source but nothing else . Meanwhile Myr's had seemingly countless stars. This is interesting because Dafnes is a 8 Star, while Myr is a 10 Star, meaning Myr SHOULD be significantly more powerful, possibly the explanation for why Dafnes' Pocket Dimension seems smaller in scale.
Anyways, I think you've already seen where all of this is going, I believe we have enough for this to be a typical 4-A "Countless stars in the sky dimension" feat. Myr is in complete control of his dimension and it's location is within her very body. Plus she is supposed to be ridiculously stronger than the rest of the cast.
--- The New God Tier ---
We got a 'creator god' type character in the PAD X anime as the final big-bad, so a clear contender for the new true God Tier of the verse. Terra Dragon is only seen right at the end, Episode 88 and Episode 89, but it is revealed that he not just created the world this series takes place o and all the life on them, but mulitple worlds i the past . He's massively superior to every other character, so much so that the final fight against him, where Ace, Lance, and King all team up with their monsters, was a total stompfest and they couldn't even damage him. They 'won' by begging and pleading with the Terra Dragon to allow their world to continue to exist. Even an attack that had a combo for 'every life othe planet' didn't do anything, Terra Dragon just dissolved the attack with ease.
However Terra Dragon's true scale and power is pointed out to us here, that Terra Dragon is 'everything that can be seen' , and what was fought was just an avatar of Terra Dragon.
There's a few ways to interpret that line, being 'everything' that can be seen. At the very smallest it's the entire space of stars, which is 4-A, but can possibly be as high as meaning that Terra Dragon IS the universe, either 3-A or High 3-A
I believe with this context for what Terra Dragon is, a unique rating from the rest of the cast of "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A to High 3-A" is the most fitting.
To our knowledge, Terra Dragon has no peer or rival in it's power, and it is only challenged by Prime Dragon Eidos who is still shrouded in mystery (being an 'ultimate creator' who created even the concepts of the universe), but it's unclear if Terra Dragon is Eidos, or if Eidos is yet an even higher beings. Until that information is revealed, Terra Dragon should be our 'God Tier'
--- Element and Season Variants ---
So that's a lot of numbers and feats, lets shift to something more fun. Lets explain elemental variants and seasonal variants.
PAD has a LOT of characters that are (at least originally) pallet swaps of one another. And it also has a lot of special event versions of characters (such as being themed around holidays, or events like school and the beach), however PAD's explanation of these alternate versions of characters is shaky, and has been hard to determine what should be it's own profile and what should be a key.
Thankfully, both the PAD X anime and a little research from the online stories and mobile game events has a much more clear answer.
First, elemental variants ARE unique characters. This is explained in PAD X's Episode 65 (a 'behind the scenes' episode) where it is explained using Sonia, where it's revealed that the franchises many 'Sonias' are all sisters but unique people. This is also supported by the PAD Island event, where the final boss is "Paradise Celeb, Hera-Is", a version of Hera-Is, who can have various reactions to the characters you bring to fight her. If she sees Zeus-Mercury (The water Zeus counterpart), and Zeus-Mercury only, she will become excited and reward the player. However if she sees Zeus-Mercury and another Hera of a different element she'll become aggressive with her counterpart. The take-away is that she doesn't care if a different version of Zeus is with another Hera, but HER Zeus she dislikes being with other Heras.
So we have one character admitting there's a difference between elemental variants, and another directly interacting with elemental variants in unique ways, I think it's clear-cut that they are their own unique characters. (There are even more examples of this, like Hera-Beorc only reacting to Zeus-Jupiter during the wedding event)
However, seasonal events a little trickier. They're occasionally acknowledged by the online stories but they're much more rarely talked about, and flip-floped if they are their own 'versions' of the characters or just another form/phase of their life. However, in the above example with "Paradise Celeb, Hera-Is", she does NOT get aggressive with the normal version of Hera-Is, which at least implies that they are the same character, or she at least recognizes Hera-Is as herself.
So I think the current stance should be that Elemental Variants deserve their own pages, they each have their own character, personalities, and divergent stories. However Seasonal and Event Variants should be on their corresponding 'normal' form's page as a separate key for now.
--- Collaborations ---
ITS THE MOMENT YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR.
If you don't play PAD, but you know what it is, you probably know it for one reason: It's a hub for a LOT of crossover events.
I don't know how, or why, but Puzzle and Dragons attracts a lot of attention and has guest characters very frequently, or do collaborative efforts with groups.
However, VS Wiki has rules that define when a Crossover version of a character is acceptable for a profile, so lets run down the three types of PAD crossovers and talk about what they're like so it can be clearer which should and shouldn't be on the Wiki.
- Unique Creation Collaborations
These crossovers easily fit into the first rule for crossovers, they're unique creations made through the collaborative effort. They should be allowed, no questions asked.
This includes collabs like Hello Kitty (Which had 'fusions' between Puzzle and Dragons characters and the Hello Kitty cast to make unique new characters .), Android (Where they transformed the Android mascot into a dragon-like monster ), and Takaoka City (A collaboration that took insperatio of the culture and mascots of a real-world city for creating new monsters.)
- Permanent Collaborations
These collaboration deals are ones that are either in-house and already owned by Gung-Ho or have struck some sort of deal to make them permanent additions to the cast. These collaborations have 'adopted' these characters for an indefinite amount of time. I think these ones fall under the second category of relevant guest characters.
These include Gung-ho's series that they've integrated into the games (including Princess Punt, Divine Gate, Calcio Fantasia, and many more), and franchises that aren't GungHo related but are on the permanent roster including GROOVE COASTER, Taiko no Tatsujin, and Gunma.
- Rotation Collaborations
Finally the trickiest collection of collaborations, they do their crossovers straight, and they are not always available but are instead situational, occasionally coming in and out of availability just like seasonal events and special dungeons. These ones ride the fence when it comes to the collaboration rules in my eyes, and I feel they can go either way, especially from collaboration to collaborations.
These events do adapt the crossover characters into PAD, giving them new powers and abilities to make them comparable to the already established cast. They are also explained in the retail release of PADZ on the Nintendo 3DS as being worlds that the Dragon Alter can open portals to, and thus allow them into PAD's universe.
Some series do a two-way event like Dragon's Dogma and Angry Birds, while others just have their characters crossover only into the PAD universe to team up with the players and already establish characters in various dungeons, challenges, and special events, becoming permanent members of the team.
There's a lot of wiggle room here for interpretation for if this last collection deserve profiles. Some crossover 'more' than others, and I've already seen a few users and even a staff member debate which ones should be allowed, so this one is definitely touch-and-go, and will depend on the collaboration and what was done with the crossover. However I personally believe the fact that these crossovers made it into a retail version of these games with an in-lore explanation lends credibility to them being viable crossovers.
--- Conclusion, AKA the TLDR ---
- Enhanced Senses and Damage Boost should be added to every profile as a verse-standard ability.
- 5 Star Monsters should scale to Idia's High 4-C and MFTL+ Feats, 6 Star - 9 Star Monsters should upscale via being able to stomp with ease and doing similar or comparable feats casually.
- Myr, her counterparts, and the other 10 Star Monsters should scale to 4-A
- Terra Dragon should have a unique rating of 'At least 4-A, possibly 3-A to High 3-A'
- Elemental Variants are their own unique characters who deserve their own unique profiles
- Seasonal and Event Variants are most likely the original character in a new scenario and should be a separate key on the original profile
- Collaborations have varying levels of quality and may need to be judged on a case-by-case basis. Some are clearly transformative or create original characters and should be allowed, others are officially part of the roster and should be allowed, the rest have in-universe explanations and evidence going for them but some might be 'better' than others by wiki standards.
