The Threshold of Evil Incarnate [0-0-0]

[Fernaine]

Two big bads shall meet today. The Progeny of Evil vs Rancour (The Battle for York Arc)

The AP gap is 29.90x

Both opponents start 50m away from each other in Times Square, New York City.
Speed equalised
The opponents have no prior knowledge of one another
Otherwise, SBA

"He was our guardian angel with an open wound, an angel of the oblivion." - 0
"I am, after all, a demon of my own creation." - 0
Incon - 0

 

[Yoriichi999]

following

 

[GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains]

Two big bads shall meet today. The Progeny of Evil vs Rancour (The Battle for York Arc)

The AP gap is 29.90x

Both opponents start 50m away from each other in Times Square, New York City.
Speed equalised
The opponents have no prior knowledge of one another
Otherwise, SBA

"He was our guardian angel with an open wound, an angel of the oblivion." - 0
"I am, after all, a demon of my own creation." - 0
Incon - 0

I'll begin, Rancour is gonna open this battle out by assessing and quickly finding out he's out matched in strength, he's going to take the easy road and spam Spectral Slashes at TPOE to bring him down to his level, he'll likely begin gaining a speed advantage for this reason because the stat reductions and interference with TPOE's actual capacity to use his abilities will allow Rancour to cast his Dominion

 

[Fernaine]

I'll begin, Rancour is gonna open this battle out by assessing and quickly finding out he's out matched in strength, he's going to take the easy road and spam Spectral Slashes at TPOE to bring him down to his level, he'll likely begin gaining a speed advantage for this reason because the stat reductions and interference with TPOE's actual capacity to use his abilities will allow Rancour to cast his Dominion

The Progeny of Evil opens most battles by using Dissect to open his opponent and mess with their insides in any way he might see fit. Ideally, he just needs to point in Rancour's general direction to dissect his body. If Rancour remains in Montresor's field of vision, the spell will take effect. The Progeny doesn't necessarily need to get close to Rancour to attack either, due to his technique's effective range being tens of kilometers, and since as soon as Dissect is effective, he becomes able to control the insides of his victims remotely by means of telekinesis. It is possible to resist through willpower, but this would have to be comparable to or greater than the Progeny's, which is not an easy feat to achieve. Does he have any way of escaping this initial technique?

 

[GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains]

The Progeny of Evil opens most battles by using Dissect to open his opponent and mess with their insides in any way he might see fit. Ideally, he just needs to point in Rancour's general direction to dissect his body. If Rancour remains in Montresor's field of vision, the spell will take effect. The Progeny doesn't necessarily need to get close to Rancour to attack either, due to his technique's effective range being tens of kilometers, and since as soon as Dissect is effective, he becomes able to control the insides of his victims remotely by means of telekinesis. It is possible to resist through willpower, but this would have to be comparable to or greater than the Progeny's, which is not an easy feat to achieve. Does he have any way of escaping this initial technique?

Yes, Rancour can easily abandon his 'body' and create a new one via his regeneration and he has a willpower far beyond anything man is capable of - by leagues entirely unseen, he will never give up and his ego and constantly increasing power will net the dissect skill nothing, alongside the fact that he is nearly incapable of feeling pain.

With all this in mind he'd likely rush after Progeny once he casts dissect, as it either won't work, or he'll simply purify the effect. If neither of those scenarios take place, he'll just abandon his 'body' and regenerate it around his soul.

 

[Fernaine]

Yes, Rancour can easily abandon his 'body' and create a new one via his regeneration and he has a willpower far beyond anything man is capable of - by leagues entirely unseen, he will never give up and his ego and constantly increasing power will net the dissect skill nothing, alongside the fact that he is nearly incapable of feeling pain.

With all this in mind he'd likely rush after Progeny once he casts dissect, as it either won't work, or he'll simply purify the effect. If neither of those scenarios take place, he'll just abandon his 'body' and regenerate it around his soul.

I don't think abandoning the body would work unless he has a great resistance to paralysis to pass through the technique's suspended animation effect. As far as regeneration is concerned, Transcendentals in general have regeneration nullification at the Low-Godly level, with the Progeny being able to injure and surpass the healing of Lino, another Transcendental who embodies the concept of Solitude and has his immortality directly tied to it. All of a Transcendental's attacks ignore regeneration at that level.

As for willpower, having a Will above that of any human being isn't enough to set it on a par with Progeny, especially considering that all the sorcerers in The Firefly Chronicles, even the beginners, have willpower beyond human capabilities, and on the “level of will” scale:
Beginner Wizard >> Adept >> Low-Level War Golem >>> Master >>> High-Level War Golem (from here we're past the “characters who won't give up for anything” level) >>>> Grand Master >>>>>> Living Curses, Mythological Golems, and Matured Transcendentals (it is said that trying to drain the Will of a Transcendental is like trying to dry the ocean with a small bucket and a tissue, and the Progeny is pretty much the pinnacle of the verse in that regard).

His Will was so strong that it became toxic to anyone who got close to it (another thing that will be a problem for Rancour if he manages to get close, since Will in exacerbated concentrations, especially in the case of Montresor, can even liquefy the brain mass in a matter of moments when inhaled), and distorted space and the incoming light.

 

[GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains]

I don't think abandoning the body would work unless he has a great resistance to paralysis to pass through the technique's suspended animation effect. As far as regeneration is concerned, Transcendentals in general have regeneration nullification at the Low-Godly level, with the Progeny being able to injure and surpass the healing of Lino, another Transcendental who embodies the concept of Solitude and has his immortality directly tied to it. All of a Transcendental's attacks ignore regeneration at that level.

He does have an immense paralysis resistance through his adaptation (he adapted to Dæinvorol's poison which paralyses you on the conceptual level and makes you weaker whilst increasing the poison and paralysis, let alone the fact that he could simply purify these effects)
In regards to the regen, as long as his soul exists, he can regenerate damage dealt to him and he can't be dispersed unless you can conceptually erase him

As for willpower, having a Will above that of any human being isn't enough to set it on a par with Progeny, especially considering that all the sorcerers in The Firefly Chronicles, even the beginners, have willpower beyond human capabilities, and on the “level of will” scale:
Beginner Wizard >> Adept >> Low-Level War Golem >>> Master >>> High-Level War Golem (from here we're past the “characters who won't give up for anything” level) >>>> Grand Master >>>>>> Living Curses, Mythological Golems, and Matured Transcendentals (it is said that trying to drain the Will of a Transcendental is like trying to dry the ocean with a small bucket and a tissue, and the Progeny is pretty much the pinnacle of the verse in that regard).

To demonstrate the willpower behind Rancour, he was far FAR, and I mean near Transcendent to Lord Vallum before he even had his body in terms of his willpower, and Lord Vallum's willpower expresses itself on the world and can conceptually erase even those with incredible FAR BEYOND human willpower (he nearly erased Momo, who has feats of resisting and adapting to abilities that break his will at the conceptual level)
So Rancour >>>>>> Lord Vallum >>> A far more powerful Momo then at the point he adapted to a conceptual willpower break.

His Will was so strong that it became toxic to anyone who got close to it (another thing that will be a problem for Rancour if he manages to get close, since Will in exacerbated concentrations, especially in the case of Montresor, can even liquefy the brain mass in a matter of moments when inhaled), and distorted space and the incoming light.

Luckily for Rancour he doesnt actually have a body or parts of himself that can be physically damaged, he's a wraith, a soul-based being whom uses a puppet 'body' to interact with the real world, which is Momo, however he can manifest without him and whilst he is dead

To further add on to this, by the time Progeny tries these attacks, Rancour will already have started stat reducing him and may trap him into a Dominion by erecting a barrier around it. His slashes also stop you from using abilities which may dispel any of Progeny's aforementioned abilities.

 

[Fernaine]

He does have an immense paralysis resistance through his adaptation (he adapted to Dæinvorol's poison which paralyses you on the conceptual level and makes you weaker whilst increasing the poison and paralysis, let alone the fact that he could simply purify these effects)
In regards to the regen, as long as his soul exists, he can regenerate damage dealt to him and he can't be dispersed unless you can conceptually erase him

As I've already said, Transcendentals can destroy concepts and deny regeneration attached to them, just as they can wound the soul (and pass through resistance to soul manipulation), the body, and the mind. Passing through Rancour's regeneration wouldn't be a problem for Progeny.
Regarding resistance to paralysis, perhaps this is even worse for him than not having the resistance, since the absence of paralysis would only mean that suspended animation would not be able to stop the effect of the implosion of Rancour's body. The damage would be treated as if it occurred to an ordinary person because of the denial of regeneration, and it would be as if he were simply blown up from the inside out.

To demonstrate the willpower behind Rancour, he was far FAR, and I mean near Transcendent to Lord Vallum before he even had his body in terms of his willpower, and Lord Vallum's willpower expresses itself on the world and can conceptually erase even those with incredible FAR BEYOND human willpower (he nearly erased Momo, who has feats of resisting and adapting to abilities that break his will at the conceptual level)
So Rancour >>>>>> Lord Vallum >>> A far more powerful Momo then at the point he adapted to a conceptual willpower break

Don't think it would still be enough to fully resist the spell. It might mitigate the damage, but not outright stop the Progeny from using it or anything (especially considering the Progeny's willpower is considered transcendental even among transcendental, and he could elevate himself to the status of an Outer Creature mainly through it)

Luckily for Rancour he doesnt actually have a body or parts of himself that can be physically damaged, he's a wraith, a soul-based being whom uses a puppet 'body' to interact with the real world, which is Momo, however he can manifest without him and whilst he is dead

To further add on to this, by the time Progeny tries these attacks, Rancour will already have started stat reducing him and may trap him into a Dominion by erecting a barrier around it. His slashes also stop you from using abilities which may dispel any of Progeny's aforementioned abilities.

Transcendentals can interact with ghosts, souls, and similar entities like actual human beings. It is likely that instead of affecting the brain directly, it would just start to disintegrate his head through it.
His spells? Sure. But Grandmasters (and by a much greater extension, Transcendentals) are immune to power nullification when it comes to their Raw Will Abilities (Subjugation, Visualization, Pact Creation, and Raw Applications). His slashes are not stopping toxicity, Subjugation, and the Progeny's bodily techniques. Also, it is likely that he won't be able to get near the Progeny since waves of giant stillborns will begin to spawn from his iron dress and block the way like a wall of flesh (each of those stillborns carry similar amounts of toxicity within them).

 

[GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains]

As I've already said, Transcendentals can destroy concepts and deny regeneration attached to them, just as they can wound the soul (and pass through resistance to soul manipulation), the body, and the mind. Passing through Rancour's regeneration wouldn't be a problem for Progeny.
Regarding resistance to paralysis, perhaps this is even worse for him than not having the resistance, since the absence of paralysis would only mean that suspended animation would not be able to stop the effect of the implosion of Rancour's body. The damage would be treated as if it occurred to an ordinary person because of the denial of regeneration, and it would be as if he were simply blown up from the inside out.

In this case, Rancour would use Spectral Slashes or his Dominion to weaken and cut apart Progeny at the sub-atomic level, which would also cut him off from his powers and free Rancour

Don't think it would still be enough to fully resist the spell. It might mitigate the damage, but not outright stop the Progeny from using it or anything (especially considering the Progeny's willpower is considered transcendental even among transcendental, and he could elevate himself to the status of an Outer Creature mainly through it)

This may be true, however it would stop a great portion of the spell and make the ability to cut it off that much easier

Transcendentals can interact with ghosts, souls, and similar entities like actual human beings. It is likely that instead of affecting the brain directly, it would just start to disintegrate his head through it.
His spells? Sure. But Grandmasters (and by a much greater extension, Transcendentals) are immune to power nullification when it comes to their Raw Will Abilities (Subjugation, Visualization, Pact Creation, and Raw Applications). His slashes are not stopping toxicity, Subjugation, and the Progeny's bodily techniques. Also, it is likely that he won't be able to get near the Progeny since waves of giant stillborns will begin to spawn from his iron dress and block the way like a wall of flesh (each of those stillborns carry similar amounts of toxicity within them).

This is where Rancour could simply use Ethereal Flame and burn apart everything in the way (it can literally create an explosion of any potency he needs and Spectral Flame is incredible hard to dispel as it is Spectral Energy refined to a point where it can burn through existence itself). He could easily modify his slashes to cut through toxicity and could, if need be, create new abilities to counter anything needed, and again, he could open his Dominion to a range great enough to begin slashing Progeny.

 

[Fernaine]

In this case, Rancour would use Spectral Slashes or his Dominion to weaken and cut apart Progeny at the sub-atomic level, which would also cut him off from his powers and free Rancour

Eh, it would still open him and make pretty much every single thing inside him just fall to the ground. And even if he can regenerate (somehow, because his regen would be nullified), it would still be at a MUCH lower pace, and as soon as he moves one more step closer after being dissected, the Progeny would instantly use Subjugation to just desintegrate what's left of him through vibrations (if there's anything left, mind hax would still incapacitate since it did take effect even on Will Users who should be immune/extremely resistant to fear, mind, soul, and madness manipulation.

This may be true, however it would stop a great portion of the spell and make the ability to cut it off that much easier

To "greatly diminish" the effect of a Will Spell, you need to have willpower greater than that of the caster, which I'm still not convinced Rancour has. Otherwise, the resistance would be pretty mild.

This is where Rancour could simply use Ethereal Flame and burn apart everything in the way (it can literally create an explosion of any potency he needs and Spectral Flame is incredible hard to dispel as it is Spectral Energy refined to a point where it can burn through existence itself). He could easily modify his slashes to cut through toxicity and could, if need be, create new abilities to counter anything needed, and again, he could open his Dominion to a range great enough to begin slashing Progeny.

As soon as he senses his minions dying, his instinctive action should instantly make him use Subjugation to dispell/reflect the attack (if Noah, the herald of the Entity of Inevitable Death, was certain that Montresor could dispell a slash imbued with the Venom of the Ashen Serpent [extremely specific nonexistent essence that can erase the mind, body, soul, concept, and narrative of everything it hits] from him, then it should surely dispell Rancour's attack) and hit Rancour point-blank (distance = strength of the effect). I don't think he would have time to gain new abilities when the Progeny is pretty much the character to spam every single ability at once until there's nothing left of the threat (when he senses the opponent as a threat, which would be the case here): he will use Dissect, then use Subjugation, then jump what's left with his stillborns, then use his tail to ensure that his enemy is truly beyond regenerating, then finally (or sooner) absorb the particles in the air so he can truly erase whatever's essence, concept, mind, or soul is left in the area.

 

[GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains]

Eh, it would still open him and make pretty much every single thing inside him just fall to the ground. And even if he can regenerate (somehow, because his regen would be nullified), it would still be at a MUCH lower pace, and as soon as he moves one more step closer after being dissected, the Progeny would instantly use Subjugation to just desintegrate what's left of him through vibrations (if there's anything left, mind hax would still incapacitate since it did take effect even on Will Users who should be immune/extremely resistant to fear, mind, soul, and madness manipulation.

His regenerative system are resistant to being overridden so idk how that would interact with the nullification. Disintegrating him wouldn't be useful as again he wouldve already began spamming slashes or simply wouldve opened his Dominion which would instantly stat reduce Progeny to the point of being below him in speed and power AND it would cut off the powers he had active because there's a constant flow of insta-hit slashes slicing him apart at the sub-atomic level and negating his powers.

To "greatly diminish" the effect of a Will Spell, you need to have willpower greater than that of the caster, which I'm still not convinced Rancour has. Otherwise, the resistance would be pretty mild.

I would say hes at least an equal, his feats of willpower in his TBFY form simply outweigh most characters inverse and these are people who can resist and entirely adapt to powers that dominate you and break your will conceptually. In this case Momo then ADAPTED to this phenomenon, gaining a willpower even stronger then before THEN gained a 10x multiplier on all his stats, which includes mental stats which includes willpower, he then was entirely broken and destroyed by Vallum's willpower which is unfathomably superior to his, and Rancour's is a large margin superior to his, I think calling them equals is the least justice you could do to him.

As soon as he senses his minions dying, his instinctive action should instantly make him use Subjugation to dispell/reflect the attack (if Noah, the herald of the Entity of Inevitable Death, was certain that Montresor could dispell a slash imbued with the Venom of the Ashen Serpent [extremely specific nonexistent essence that can erase the mind, body, soul, concept, and narrative of everything it hits] from him, then it should surely dispell Rancour's attack) and hit Rancour point-blank (distance = strength of the effect). I don't think he would have time to gain new abilities when the Progeny is pretty much the character to spam every single ability at once until there's nothing left of the threat (when he senses the opponent as a threat, which would be the case here): he will use Dissect, then use Subjugation, then jump what's left with his stillborns, then use his tail to ensure that his enemy is truly beyond regenerating, then finally (or sooner) absorb the particles in the air so he can truly erase whatever's essence, concept, mind, or soul is left in the area.

Ethereal Flame is oneshot, it'll kill the minions before the IA can activate and you can't reflect burning. And for everything else, Rancour will spam Spectral Dominion and allat so I'm not sure how Progeny is surviving literally next to infinite slashes

 

[Fernaine]

His regenerative system are resistant to being overridden so idk how that would interact with the nullification. Disintegrating him wouldn't be useful as again he wouldve already began spamming slashes or simply wouldve opened his Dominion which would instantly stat reduce Progeny to the point of being below him in speed and power AND it would cut off the powers he had active because there's a constant flow of insta-hit slashes slicing him apart at the sub-atomic level and negating his powers.

Well, his page doesn't list regeneration nullification resistance (since he apparently just gains it in the Reincarnated key) but says he can regenerate unless his bound concepts exist, and if Dissect isn't enough to destroy that (due to equal willpower, but while not being an instant kill anymore, it would still cause some serious damage), Subjugation surely will since it isn't bound to the rules Will Spells have. AP gap through vibrations + layered regen nullification (it can bypass the effects of support spells that protect the regeneration of an individual, which should still bypass regen nullification resistance), layered fear and madness manipulation (in raw output, the Progeny is equal to Outer Creatures, which are superior to Transcendentals, which in turn are superior to Grandmasters, who are superior to Masters, and so on), and non-physical interaction should at the very least incapacitate him if not just destroy him completely (this is at the beginning of the battle, so there's not really much time for him to adapt, and the Progeny really doesn't need to do anything to activate Subjugation other than think; hell, it may even activate on its own as soon as Rancour moves due to IA and the Progeny's instability).

I would say hes at least an equal, his feats of willpower in his TBFY form simply outweigh most characters inverse and these are people who can resist and entirely adapt to powers that dominate you and break your will conceptually. In this case Momo then ADAPTED to this phenomenon, gaining a willpower even stronger then before THEN gained a 10x multiplier on all his stats, which includes mental stats which includes willpower, he then was entirely broken and destroyed by Vallum's willpower which is unfathomably superior to his, and Rancour's is a large margin superior to his, I think calling them equals is the least justice you could do to him.

Fair enough.

Ethereal Flame is oneshot, it'll kill the minions before the IA can activate and you can't reflect burning. And for everything else, Rancour will spam Spectral Dominion and allat so I'm not sure how Progeny is surviving literally next to infinite slashes

It may not reflect burning, but the things that are burning. The shockwave should just repel anything around Montresor in an area of at least one kilometer (if not much higher). And again, if it can reflect a nonexistent attack, I don't see why it couldn't reflect burning (especially since the Progeny can interact with abstract concepts and the like, and you said it is highly difficult, not outright impossible). Also, Subjugation specifically has infinite speed (both for activation and expansion), and as I said, he probably won't activate it after Rancour uses his attack, but probably right at the beginning of the battle (or at the very latest soon after being encapsulated by his stillborns). Even if the Progeny is grievously injured/killed by the Etheral Flame, his self-producing Will should still liberate one last amplified blast of Subjugation, which would most likely turn this into an incon.

 

[Yoriichi999]

I don't know how Minamoto could beat Spicta/The evil progenitor without me updating his profile.

 

[Fernaine]

It may not reflect burning, but the things that are burning. The shockwave should just repel anything around Montresor in an area of at least one kilometer (if not much higher). And again, if it can reflect a nonexistent attack, I don't see why it couldn't reflect burning (especially since the Progeny can interact with abstract concepts and the like, and you said it is highly difficult, not outright impossible). Also, Subjugation specifically has infinite speed (both for activation and dispersion), and as I said, he probably won't activate it after Rancour uses his attack, but probably right at the beginning of the battle (or at the very latest soon after being encapsulated by his stillborns). Even if the Progeny is grievously injured/killed by the Etheral Flame, his self-producing Will should still liberate one last amplified blast of Subjugation, which would most likely turn this into an incon.

Also, now that I notice, even with danmaku and thousands of attacks being launched at him, the Progeny should still resist due to resistance to Deconstruction (Raw Will ability, so it resists power nullification; at least initially due to Statistics Reduction, but that would likely be enough time for him to activate Subjugation, and Spectral Dominion does not seem to have any way of bypassing his regeneration fast enough to incapacitate him)