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The Monitors

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I've already adressed about the time and space in the Monitor Sphere in my wall of text above. How everything in the Monitor world having more meaning,being more profound, meaningful and absolute supports the Monitor Sphere being a platonic and archetypal realm
 
^ Yeah. That doesn't remotely disprove it. Platonic Forms of time and space are still 1-A. It's evident that regular time and space don't exist there. This was made fully clear by how much they stressed that time and space don't exist in Limbo, which is below the Monitors Sphere.
 
I don't really see what contradicts the New Gods being that powerful if they're portrayed that way multiple times with supporting statements in the cosmology and by Grant Morrison.

But even then, space and time don't exist at all when we get to Limbo, as I showed in the opening. They even portrayed Limbo that way in Animal Man issues #24-26. And even if Destiny is beyond the Sphere of the Gods, the other Endless should still reside there.
 
I think that the Endless are embodiments of the entire DC multiverse, not limited to the sphere of gods, and the New Gods have never remotely been portrayed at a 1-A level of raw power. We are not going to perform such massive upgrades to them, and I would appreciate if you would drop the subject, as I am extremely busy, and do not have limitelss time and energy.
 
Okay. That is good then.
 
I just read the definition of false platonic concept

Wouldnt that upgrade Darkseid? him being a false platonic concept means he transcends the 52 universes or he transcends the infinite universes (Which makes him High 2-A)
 
Possibly. I am not sure.
 
If monitors got upgraded to 1-A then would the endless be 1-A as well? Because i think they exist beyond the monitor sphere or around the same domain.
 
Possibly. It is mostly up to Matthew to evaluate.
 
They are manifestations of intrinsic attributes of the entire multiverse, so they should probably exist on all levels within it.
 
I found this comic of Santa Claus being portrayed as comparable to the Sandman, and he also explicitly exists within the Sphere of the Gods.
 
Dream exists as a part of 1-A eldritch abominations as well, so he is definitely beyond the sphere of gods. Comparisons with Santa Claus, who should just be one of many stories in his realm, should be seen as plot-induced stupidity outliers.
 
He's not within his realm, though. He can go to his realm, as he's been there before, but he exists in a different part of the Sphere of the Gods.
 
Santa Claus is a story, and as far as I understand they all originate within the realm of dreams.
 
Anyway, I am getting very tired of this neverending topic, and nothing is going to change until Matthew finds the time to focus on this anyway.
 
In the Vertigo continuity they do originate in Dream's realm, if I remember correctly.
 
Sphere of gods being 1-A/High 1-B would imply the new gods are on that level whjch is dumb, the map of the multiverse only shows the physical multiverse below the sphere of gods. No higher dimensions; assuming that would he fallacious. Also dream isnt bound by his realm/the sphere, hes constantly shown journeying outside if it. Them being masters of the void is contradictory as Mandrakk who was able to barbecue a monitor was instantly erased by the overvoid. It being to be a dimension and having space time debunks it being 1-A, as to be 1-A you need to be above the concepts of space time and dimensions in general. They cant apply to the realm if its 1-A. Monitors existing in the monitor sphere doesnt makw them 1-A as simply existing in a 1-A realm doesnt qualify for said tier. Threatening all of existence is simply high 1-B and rather debunks the monitor sphere being 1-A. Sorry if am interrupting or anything, just wanted to put my input in this.
 
Probably, yes.
 
I think that it might be best if we close this thread.
 
Them being masters of the void is contradictory as Mandrakk who was able to barbecue a monitor was instantly erased by the overvoid.

The Monitor Mind made a concious decision to erase Mandrakk, its not as simple as the Monitors being unable to exist in the Overvoid. At the end of the Final Crisis, Nix Uotan survived the destruction of the Monitor Sphere (Which was swallowed by the Overvoid) because the Monitor Mind decided he should be its only representative

It being to be a dimension and having space time debunks it being 1-A, as to be 1-A you need to be above the concepts of space time and dimensions in general. They cant apply to the realm if its 1-A. Monitors existing in the monitor sphere doesnt makw them 1-A as simply existing in a 1-A realm doesnt qualify for said tier.

Time and Space was said to be different in the Monitor Sphere, it is an archetypal realm where everything is more profound, the Monitors were described as primal Forms (which as I posted above, I'm pretty sure it refers to platonic forms). Time in the Monitor Sphere isnt a chronal dimension but are clockwork symbols in the sky. Plus the Monitor Sphere being a place where forms surrenders to the Overvoid etc

It doesnt debunk 1-A at all

'Threatening all of existence is simply high 1-B and rather debunks the monitor sphere being 1-A. Sorry if am interrupting or anything, just wanted to put my input in this.

How does that debunks Monitor Sphere being 1-A?
 
@Sandman31

What do you think that we should do here?
 
@Hykuu TBQF the New Gods were described to be 1-A quite a few times... I can count up to 5-6 . But the only reason they aren't at the minute here is because it is deemed to be quite the big outlier .... Which I agree with.

I agree with the upgrade... Even if it makes no difference.
 
I do agree. The only thing stopping thought robot from being 1-A is the fact that mandraak was erased by the over void. Although this not only happened with unbound spectre but we also don't know exactly how the void works. I think at least high 1-B possibly 1-A is better
 
Read this post said:
I do agree. The only thing stopping thought robot from being 1-A is the fact that mandraak was erased by the over void. Although this not only happened with unbound spectre but we also don't know exactly how the void works. I think at least high 1-B possibly 1-A is better
Click to expand...
Mandrakk has actually survived the Overvoid
Mandrakk return 2
 
If the Void intended to erase Mandrakk ( while severely weakened mind you ) , and he survived it, that would mean he would need to be well into 1-A to do so. Okay then...
 
There's an issue with that.

I reread the scan of CAS dropping Mandrakk into the Overvoid, and it doesn't actually state that he was erased. It just says that he was "falling, until the very idea of him is lost", which in hindsight just seems like a really fancy way of saying he fell an utterly impossible distance. And actually explains why he's still alive, and makes more sense in context than "he survived the Overvoid trying to delete his ass".

It's possible the feat has been incorrectly interpreted this whole time.
 
I do not think that the Overvoid actively tried to erase Mandrakk. Mandrakk was simply cast there by Superman.
 
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