The Meaning of "All Ages Accessible"

[Sera_EX]

Hello. After a recent incident, I just wanted to get some staff opinions and input on what "All Ages Accessible" truly means.

Obviously, our wiki is accessible to people of all ages (old and young) and we keep our pages kid-friendly because of this, not allowing any sexually explicit, or excessively vulgar pictures or such on the wiki, and this extends to our discussions. However, according to Gallant, Lina has told him that no one under the age of 13 can actually become members/users on our wiki. Is this true? I have talked with Lina about this before he became inactive, and he never said that, but I don't want to be rude and say that Gallant was lying and just made that up to defend himself.

If I recall correctly, it is against Fandom's Terms of Use to outright tell someone they can't become a part of the wiki (i.e saying "Hey you are not such and such, you can't join this wiki) unless it they have violated our rules, but I am not sure if this includes age. Honestly someone five years old won't be on wikia and normally internet usage is commonly considered 13+ (without parental guidance). Perhaps I'm overlooking this and as my friend and mentor has explained it to me, our chat is generally considered PG-13.

Enough rambling. Do we have an age restriction on our wiki for joining the wiki? (not accessing it of course.) Or does "All Ages" mean anyone of any age can join our wiki? Because I have a thirteen year old sister-in-law who know thinks she isn't allowed to be on this wiki anymore.

Staff only thread, do not reply if you are not a staff member, please.

 

[OishiLover75]

I feel bad that your sister-in-law would ever think about this (even though she is in the proper age group). I do hope the situation gets resolved. I believe that the wiki should be accessible to anyone. It doesn't seem kid inappropriate. I do wonder if we should make certain ages accessible to certain age groups though.

 

[Sera_EX]

Thank you Oishi, but this is staff only thread.

 

[OishiLover75]

Oh, sorry. Should have checked that sooner.

 

[Sera_EX]

A user named "NotEvenHuman" has said this:

"I was about to post this on the thread you made, but then i saw it was staff only. Anyway, IIRC, when you're making an account, wikia says that you have to be at least 13 years old, but VSB doesn't have any rule regarding that. And it's not like the Wikia Staff actually enforces that age restriction. It's kinda like Facebook and Skype say that you need to be a certain age to make accounts, but don't do anything about people that are obviously under that age.

Even if we enforced that rule for some reason, wikia says "at least 13", so your sister would still be allowed."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Wikia / Fandom as a whole is PG-13, safe for Wikias that are R-Rated and put a warning before you enter them.

By being PG-13, you can put most things on here, but not explicit extreme gore, full frontal nudity, and an abundance of swearing. Those things shouldn't be on a website that wants to be considered "All-Ages". And loads of profanity shouldn't be placed in any wiki that intends to be even somewhat professional-looking.

Similarly, we outlaw Politics as a whole because this is not the purpose of this wiki. You should feel at home here regardless if you lean left, right or none.

 

[Sera_EX]

Thank you Matt. Here's what Ven told me in private:

"Momo has a right to be not only on this site, but in chat like everyone else. It is against Fandom's TOU to restrict her from chat simply because of her age (I don't think you can even make a rule about that). In short Sera, Parental Advisory is always a priority. And you are a chat moderator. Warn people that we have a minor in our presence before they start talking about certain things, it is very simple. If they are kind enough to abide by your wish, then great, but if not, consult the staff, always."

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Thank you Matt. Here's what Ven told me in private:

"Momo has a right to be not only on this site, but in chat like everyone else. It is against Fandom's TOU to restrict her from chat simply because of her age (I don't think you can even make a rule about that). In short Sera, Parental Advisory is always a priority. And you are a chat moderator. Warn people that we have a minor in our presence before they start talking about certain things, it is very simple. If they are kind enough to abide by your wish, then great, but if not, consult the staff, always."

While it is true that we cannot restrict any member from joining the wiki or chat regardless of how old he or she is or says they are. Their is something I will have to step forward and say about what ven just said. We simply cannot restrict people's thoughts or actions on the chat because of the presence of ONE or a few minors, what ven is basically suggesting is too no offense "babyproof" the chat which is something I know a LOT of people will not tolerate.

We here on the wiki and chat have always abided by the rules placed on us and these rules are simple and easy to follow, things like don't show or post extreme gore or nudity or telling other users how or to kill themselves are common rules that all age groups follow and should not do or say. However telling or in more serious terms controlling other users to watch what they say just because we have a "child" in the chat is something that I disapprove of. This is isn't real life, most of use have no idea who any of us really are and the reason most of us are on the Internet and the reason most of us come to the chat is too be FREE to express and say what we think with others of similar interest. What you sera and ven are suggesting is basically put "parental control" on the chat which invades not only my rights and thoughts but to others who are not children and wish to free to discuss or say mature topics.

I very much respect that you and ven simply just want to protect the innocence of your sister in law, but if she can't handle the thoughts of adults or topics above the age of 13 than she really shouldn't be their in the first place.

Edit:

 

[Thebluedash]

I highly agree with Grudge.

 

[Thebluedash]

If we try to "4kidz" our chat here, there would quite literally be no enjoyment being in chat anymore and if that time ever come I would likely just quit being a chat mod. Though, of course I don't support NSFW topics or imagery in chat. I don't think heavy-censorship of users is necessary. Kids, teens or whatever should be able to accept what others say without too much trouble, and if they are younger than 13 years old, they weren't suppose to be here in the first place. They know that.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

People who go onto this chat should be well aware that it's informal; as a result prone to vulgarity. I refuse to change the way I speak just because of a young person's ignorance.

And who cares anyways? Is stopping myself from saying "****" or "Shit" really going to matter in the long-run?

 

[Antvasima]

To answer the original topic, we do not have any rules against young people joining our wiki, although in the past, some of them have been unable to understand our rules, or made edits with very bad spelling, which is a case-by-case problem.

 

[Sera_EX]

No no, what Ven was saying was that I have to watch out for things that are highly inappropriate and shouldn't be on chat in the first place. Such as linking **** or even talking about it in which isn't allowed. Swearing is fine as usual, heck her older sister swears on chat regardless, you can't control that.

I don't want restrict the only place you guys can be informal on the wikia, but I can't have people like Gallant talking about Boku no Pico in the presence of a minor. That's why Everlasting kicked him in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the discussion about keeping the chat child-proof seems to be risking to become more heated, so I would appreciate if we try to keep it civil.

Personally, I can understand both perspectives, but we already have quite strict rules of conduct. Tightening them even further would risk to drive people away from the wiki. My apologies.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

No no, what Ven was saying was that I have to watch out for things that are highly inappropriate and shouldn't be on chat in the first place. Such as linking **** or even talking about it in the first place. Swearing is fine as usual, heck her older sister swears on chat regardless, you can't control that.

I don't want restrict the only place you guys can be informal on the wikia, but I can't have people like Gallant talking about Boku no Pico in the presence of a minor. That's why Everlasting kicked him in the first place.

Well you can't exactly kick someone out just because he brings out a mature topic like that, especially if the reason is because their was a minor present. Unless gallant posted the ACTUAL link to the video than yes by all means kick or ban him, but he didn't and kicking him for talking about a ( vulgar and gross) topic does not cross any boundaries we placed as long as he wasn't being disturbing or super weird about the topic as well like saying something sexual about it cause than that's also punishable but if he is just saying things on the lines of "worst thing in the Internet i saw is boku no Pico" or something else like "lol type boku no pico on google if you wanna see disturbing",etcetc otherwise as long as it isn't too disturbing than their is no reason to kick him for bringing it up.

This go back to me saying we can't censor people just because of a child's presence in the chat.

 

[Sera_EX]

I understand. Again, what Ven was saying was more of a personal request to me since he is away. I mean, when Matthew found out about Momo's age, he kindly told me he would watch what he says around her and I totally respect that. She only comes into chat a few hours a day, normally to talk with people she's become good friends with and is normally obvlivious to conversation, but you never know when she's looking/paying attention.

I know the rules of the Chat very well, I know what can and cannot be put there. Sometimes we mods are lenient, but when she's around Ven simply asks that I not be so lenient otherwise we'll have another incident that could've been easily avoided.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, upholding the rules that we actually have should usually be fine.

 

[Sera_EX]

Sorry Gallant but if what you say is true, then why were two people kicked and threatened to be banned by two very kind and trusted administrators when they spoke about such a topic? And this was two different occasions.

One time, Ven said something that made Ryukama uncomfortable (I believe it was something that sounded incest) and Ryu said keep it in the PMs, even though it was a misunderstanding, the same applies to such topics. There's PMs for a reason. Just keep it in there and not in the public chat.

Otherwise it is pointless, I may as well just tell her to not get on chat which feels extremely wrong.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@Sera again I understand that Ven is looking out for her sister, just remember you can't silence people's thoughts or kick or ban them for bringing out or saying something you don't want your sister in law to see.

For her sake you should just stop her from coming in to the chat until you think she is old enough or mature enough to understand topics above the age of 18.

But I will not stand by and let the chat be censored and caged or better word it "changed" for the sake of one minors innocence.

Edit man I took to long to write.

 

[Sera_EX]

Fine. I apparently have no choice anyway.

 

[Thebluedash]

Boku No Pico is a name, he's not linking the video and was likely saying it as a joke, which even other staff done before. While incest is a type of act, that is considered offensive. Yes Pico is offensive, but he did not descirbe any act, he just said the name. It's like if I said the name Hitler and I get a damn permaban here.

 

[Sera_EX]

Well, I merely told him to stop because people starting saying "gross" "ew" "chill out" etc. I didn't kick him for that and I wouldn't have unless he did actually link it. Again, Everlasting did so, not me.

 

[Thebluedash]

Ah, sorry didn't realize you said Everlasting kicked him. Well then my previous messages have shifted towards a different person.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I should remind people that we do have quite strict rules, that should preferably be followed.

I think that Sera mentioned in the rule violation thread that there had been complaints about jokes about cancer, murder, and suicide. That is not acceptable, and should be kept to PMs, as she suggested.

 

[Gemmysaur]

In order to use certain portions of this Service, you will need to first register for membership in the Service. You are prohibited from registering for membership in the Service where prohibited by law. In addition, the Service is intended solely for users who are thirteen (13) years of age or older. Any registration by anyone under 13 is unauthorized, unlicensed and in violation of this Agreement. By registering for the Service Site, you represent and warrant that you are 13 or older and that you agree to and to abide by all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

Your sister in law is in the clear rule-wise. Maybe a heads up would be nice just so we don't go around speaking like sailors in her presence. Not a rule but basic etiquette to observe, else, nothing really of note to add or change in the VSB rules.

Posting anything **** is an outright ban for life though.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Gemmysaur makes sense. Keeping the worst jokes to PMs shouldn't be a big restriction.

 

[Sera_EX]

My point exactly Gemmy. As I said, Matthew is the only one thus far who kindly stated that he will watch what he says around Momo (in cases of the extreme). I don't understand what's so hard about it but if it's a constant issue, I'll just tell her not to come to chat anymore and be done with it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No one should post ****.

No one should be doing intense political debates.

No one should swear like it's a Tarantino Movie.

No one should make harsh jokes about suicide, nor post extreme violence.

The chat, and Wiki as a whole are PG-13, and people should follow that, specially when with someone as young as Momo.

However, the Wiki is PG-13, not G-Rated. If we are to turn into moral guardians and start worrifying about everything a young child might be exposed if entering our site, then we might as well cease and desist immediately.

If a young child uses the internet unsupervised, and ends up exposed to violence, sex, drugs, grimdark humor and the like, then it's their parents' fault for not taking care of them, not the websites'. Similarly, we shouldn't take responsability over the entrance of a 12 year old, either in the wiki, nor on chat.

Momo is young, and I take caution as to what I say when she's online, and would appreciate if others did too. However, she is technically above the required age to use Fandom / Wikia, and there is no way of knowing the exact age of every user, and asking it to everyone who appears would be intrusive and weird.

In Short, I believe the laws of our Wikia, and Wiki as a whole are clear, and that they are fine as long as followed. When dealing with 13 year olds, I would be expect some slight higher standards, though teenagers can handle VBW and the VBW Chat just fine, as long as rules are followed there is nothing here that would be harmful.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew makes sense.

Also, my apologies for occasionally getting political. I read an awful lot of news, so it is hard to avoid, but I almost consistently delete my comments afterwards.

 

[Sera_EX]

I need to reiterate that I am in no way suggesting new rules. This was mainly about an age requirement.

Above all else, Ven, Tsubaki, and myself are all still young and inexperienced when it comes to "parenting". We are all in our early 20s and even Ven makes mistakes regarding parental advisory. No one said everyone completely limit themseleves for Momo, I certainly didn't, what I did say is that I was personally asked to keep a look out for her, but again, this seems to be causing a problem which was never intended. Over something that seems to be a matter of debate between someone who has the burden of parenthood at a younge age and those who are children themselves who are still with their parents. In that case, nobody is in the wrong.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thank you for agreeing.

And in regards to politics, It's nothing to worry about. None of us are machines, and at times it can be hard to be disconnected from our worldviews and personal biases. Hell, It's impossible to truly do so.

Likewise, a casual political remark in chat is not an issue, as long as it's not prolonged, which it never is in my experience. What is an issue, however, is if a user begins rambling on and on about their political views, attacking those who disagree and derailing everything. This is a VsBoard, not a PoliticsWiki. And people who do such things should be banned on spot.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anyway, I am going to sleep now. I hope this can be settled peacefully.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Good night.

Basically, if there are regular jokes about suicide, murder, and cancer, along with mentions of hentai and lolicon, then Sera is likely right to be worried. Our rules are there for a reason. Cursing a bit is fine though, as long as serious personal attacks are avoided.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I agree with what Mat said

 

[Sera_EX]

Here's Ven's final say on the matter

"I agree with Matthew as usual, as well as Gemmy. I only ask for proper etiquette when she's around. This goes for you, Tsubaki, and even myself, especially us since we are adults and know better. I have my own personal reasons for requesting this, mostly due to my own childhood. However, this community is quite large, I apologize if this too much to ask for and if it is, then I will let Momo know not to join Chat. I don't mind swearing, never have, as long as it is not on the levels of a sailor. I cannot ignore my responsibility. I am technically her parent now. This is my final say on the matter, Sera."

I would like to add that I too am very sorry if asking for a lighter tone when she's around was too much to ask. I truly am. Once more, if it truly a problem and you guys feel like even something this minor is too restrictive, then I have no choice but to restrict her and not you all.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem at all Sera.

 

[Lina_Shields]

If your sister in law is 13, and if she is capable of understanding the rules here, and how we act in general, she is more than welcome to stay.

If she is uncomfortable with this, nobody is forcing her to stay here.

 

[Sera_EX]

Hi Lina! Anyway, it is actually the other way around. She is very comfortable here, it's that I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable or restricted around her.

I am trying to consider what Blue, Grudge, and AMM said but I think they were primarily just referring to swearing, which I have no problem with even around Momo.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Hi Lina! Anyway, it is actually the other way around. She is very comfortable here, it's that I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable or restricted around her.

I am trying to consider what Blue, Grudge, and AMM said but I think they were primarily just referring to swearing, which I have no problem with even around Momo.

It's not just swearing, it's the overall flow of the chat, I don't want to see anyone change their habits or be restricted to talk about any topics even if they are for a older audience. As long as almost nothing is changed about how the chat works than we will have absolutely no problem.

 

[Thebluedash]

Yeah that's more what I meant too.

@Grudge