The god of hope Vs The second demon king

[Benimōru]

they are incarnation of law only they dont have anything that kratos can adapt, just because it exists doesn’t mean he can adapt to it even tho he never shown to adapt to law

You don't always need a feat for this kind of situation.

There is already a related text on the RE page:

Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

 

[KLOL506]

they are incarnation of law only they dont have anything that kratos can adapt, just because it exists doesn’t mean he can adapt to it even tho he never shown to adapt to law

so this just an assumption

IDK why you are repeating this over and over again when we already disagreed with you and neither of us are gonna budge. Just vote and move on.

 

[Pedonar]

You don't always need a feat for this kind of situation.

There is already a related text on the RE page:

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this power can obtain any ability whatsoever. Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

they are incarnation only and don't even have any law manipulations abilities so this is literally bullshit

 

[Planck69]

They have Law Manipulation listed on their pages though (via binding all beings to their oaths). Like, whine about it as you will, that stuff is still there.

But eh, I suppose you can be counted as voting for Han?

 

[Benimōru]

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this power can obtain any ability whatsoever.

I'm not claiming that he can resist any ability. I'm basing this on a hax that already exists in the verse and Kratos' RE feat against characters who has this ability

 

[KLOL506]

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this power can obtain any ability whatsoever. Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

they are incarnation only and don't even have any law manipulations abilities so this is literally bullshit

Tell me you didn't read the profiles of Alecto, Tisiphone and Megaera without telling me you didn't read their profiles and you just jumped to conclusions.

All I'm seeing here are immediate jumping to conclusions and childish demands to be spoon-fed. STOP. This is not that wiki. Vote and move on.

 

[Pedonar]

Bro how is this even law manipulation, who accepted this;

they act as a group of bounty hunters and torturers for the Gods. They are the keepers of Oaths and punishers of those that would foolishly renege on a contract. They are older than Zeus and the Titans, and are a force unto themselves. In a very real sense, they are "law" incarnate.

the text describes her as a powerful force that ensures people stick to their promises and contracts. It's a poetic way of saying she's like a cosmic enforcer of justice, making sure there are serious consequences for breaking oaths only. It doesn't mean she's literally the embodiment of all laws, but rather a symbol of a specific kind of justice in the story

 

[Planck69]

Bro how is this even law manipulation, who accepted this;

they act as a group of bounty hunters and torturers for the Gods. They are the keepers of Oaths and punishers of those that would foolishly renege on a contract. They are older than Zeus and the Titans, and are a force unto themselves. In a very real sense, they are "law" incarnate.

the text describes her as a powerful force that ensures people stick to their promises and contracts. It's a poetic way of saying she's like a cosmic enforcer of justice, making sure there are serious consequences for breaking oaths only. It doesn't mean she's literally the embodiment of all laws, but rather a symbol of a specific kind of justice in the story

.....Except the "magical oaths" part is a thing in the story? Kratos physically couldn't recover his mind and sense of self, and broke his servitude to Ares when he was a demigod because of that. The oath was physically represented by the oath stones imprinted by the Furies on Orkos. I dunno how that can be called poetic when it's quite literally an actual force that binds its captives, be they mortal, demigod, god or even Primordial being like Aeageon.

Like, also, why is this a discussion here? I have issues with the Low 1-C scans used on Han Soo's page to begin with and even I know debating the validity of stats and hax on a vs match is a fruitless endeavour.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Kratos for Klol's and Planck's reasons.

 

[KLOL506]

Bro how is this even law manipulation, who accepted this;

they act as a group of bounty hunters and torturers for the Gods. They are the keepers of Oaths and punishers of those that would foolishly renege on a contract. They are older than Zeus and the Titans, and are a force unto themselves. In a very real sense, they are "law" incarnate.

the text describes her as a powerful force that ensures people stick to their promises and contracts. It's a poetic way of saying she's like a cosmic enforcer of justice, making sure there are serious consequences for breaking oaths only. It doesn't mean she's literally the embodiment of all laws, but rather a symbol of a specific kind of justice in the story

LMAO what

The Furies literally turn oaths into stones to embed into Orkos to ensure nobody breaks their Oaths, even freakin' Aegaeon, a son of Uranus, who predates time, is not immune to this and literally gets turned into the Furies' living prison for violating his blood oath to Zeus. This is why Kratos suffers as he does for the entirety of the game. Are you actually serious right now? Is this what happens when the people don't have any interest in the games?

 

[Pedonar]

.....Except the "magical oaths" part is a thing in the story? Kratos physically couldn't recover his mind and sense of self, and broke his servitude to Ares when he was a demigod because of that. The oath was physically represented by the oath stones imprinted by the Furies on Orkos. I dunno how that can be called poetic when it's quite literally an actual force that binds its captives, be they mortal, demigod, god or even Primordial being like Aeageon.

wait, u just said that he can adapt to any law

but for some reason now you are saying “He couldn’t recover his mind and self……”

Like, also, why is this a discussion here? I have issues with the Low 1-C scans used on Han Soo's page to begin with and even I know debating the validity of stats and hax on a vs match is a fruitless endeavour.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

wait, u just said that he can adapt to any law

but for some reason now you are saying “He couldn’t recover his mind and self……”

Literally the weakest version of Kratos. We using PoH lol.

Also, adapting requires you be non resistant upon first instant so.....

 

[Planck69]

wait, u just said that he can adapt to any law

but for some reason now you are saying “He couldn’t recover his mind and self……”

...Yes, as a Demigod, who wasn't exposed to it before that point. The Furies had to transfer his law into Orkos, his only ally as a last-ditch effort. 2 whole keys below this and at the start of the franchise. What's your point?

 

[Pedonar]

Literally the weakest version of Kratos. We using PoH lol.

Also, adapting requires you be non resistant upon first instant so.....

And why do u think now he can, this is another assumption

 

[KLOL506]

And why do u think now he can, this is another assumption

...Yes, as a Demigod, who wasn't exposed to it before that point. The Furies had to transfer his law into Orkos, his only ally as a last-ditch effort. 2 whole keys below this and at the start of the franchise. What's your point?

Do I really need to keep going on why your jumping to conclusions isn't helping here?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And why do u think now he can, this is another assumption

Because blud literally evolved against better shit? and By PoH point completely negs entire verse in hax?

You know power creep progression is a thing?

 

[Planck69]

Questions if God of War has Law hax listed
Is shown evidence
Says that it isn't applicable
Is shown evidence
Says that it's poetic language
Is shown evidence.
"Aha, he cannot adapt"
Kratos already has RE to beings that make Furies look like specs and said Furies had to cheat his oath to force him to kill Orkos.

Yeah, let's just count Pedonar as a vote for Han. This isn't going anywhere.

 

[Pedonar]

Law affected kratos while having RE
Law never showed again and for some reason, he can adapt to it

and also his RE is not even instant so how can he adapt to it before he got killed/controlled since han soo laws are instant, han soo source are in different dimension so how kratos gonna found his source

 

[Planck69]

KLOL will take it from here. Reading the Han profile brought up a bunch of issues for me.

 

[KLOL506]

Law affected kratos while having RE
Law never showed again and for some reason, he can adapt to it

Yeah? What's your point? This is a Kratos two keys down the pecking order. DEMIGOD. KRATOS. Against whom the Furies cheated to keep him out when their sexcapades with the man failed in spectacular fashion

and also his RE is not even instant

Not instant

Immediately gives the finger to the Fates after being resurrected by Gaia

Whatever you say, bud.

so how can he adapt to it before he got killed/controlled since han soo laws are instant, han soo source are in different dimension so how kratos gonna found his source

The same way he adapted to higher Fate hax upon resurrection without even realizing it up until the very end of GoW2 (Where he was also a depowered mortal Demigod)? The same way he gradually built up resistance to Castor and Pollux's Amulet of Uroboros in seconds despite not having even seen the thing before?

The same way he was gonna neg Athena who existed in a higher realm beyond Pantheons (Which are 5D Low 1-C constructs ATM because of Greece and Scandinavia) and was already above all the Gods of all Pantheons?

 

[Pedonar]

Yeah? What's your point? This is a Kratos two keys down the pecking order. DEMIGOD. KRATOS. Against whom the Furies cheated to keep him out when their sexcapades with the man failed in spectacular fashion






Whatever you say, bud.

yes cause he already adapted to it, its not his first time fighting them

The same way he adapted to higher Fate hax upon resurrection without even realizing it up until the very end of GoW2 (Where he was also a depowered mortal Demigod)? The same way he gradually built up resistance to Castor and Pollux's Amulet of Uroboros in seconds despite not having even seen the thing before?

14 minutes boss fights and almost 3-4 minutes cutscenes = seconds

The same way he was gonna neg Athena who existed in a higher realm beyond Pantheons (Which are 5D Low 1-C constructs ATM because of Greece and Scandinavia) and was already above all the Gods of all Pantheons?

 

[KLOL506]

yes cause he already adapted to it, its not his first time fighting them

What exactly is your point here?

14 minutes boss fights and almost 3-4 minutes cutscenes = seconds

Didn't know boss fights lacked phases and QTEs that last seconds.

 

[Pedonar]

What exactly is your point here?


Didn't know boss fights lacked phases and QTEs that last seconds.

Wog stated that they were toying with him by using the gem power the whole fight

So it means the time they were toying with him he got adapted to it so its not seconds or instant

In the profile its stated that he was slowly gaining resistance to the powers of the Sisters of Fate because of his willpower

So its not instant or seconds again

Second key; it was stated that he fought again against the sister of fate but this time he defeated them instantly, how is this even enhanced, he already had resistance from before against them, unless he didn't adapt to it before. Third key has nothing so I don’t know, there’s literally nothing shows that it work instantly or seconds and idk why it’s mentioned twice when he already adapted to it when he was demigod and I don’t know why having the power of hope will enhance his RE either

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

He wasn't trying to resist the sisters in earlier key, in fact he was wary of them, his resistance build up was passive.

Come the fight of Kraken last quarter of game, he want nah, enough of this bullshit and actively defied Sisters, wasn't trying to please them anymore.

 

[Pedonar]

He wasn't trying to resist the sisters in earlier key, in fact he was wary of them, his resistance build up was passive.

Come the fight of Kraken last quarter of game, he want nah, enough of this bullshit and actively defied Sisters, wasn't trying to please them anymore.

Yes and his body was slowly building resistance the whole time

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yes and his body was slowly building resistance the whole time

And how does that discount instant RE when he tries resisting actively?

 

[KLOL506]

Wog stated that they were toying with him by using the gem power the whole fight

Yeah, then they went all-out in the final phases.

So it means the time they were toying with him he got adapted to it so its not seconds or instant

He adapted in the final stages where they used it to the fullest potential

In the profile its stated that he was slowly gaining resistance to the powers of the Sisters of Fate because of his willpower

Read that scan again. Kratos already defied his fate at that exact moment and gained the Resistance.

Yes and his body was slowly building resistance the whole time

He already gained the Resistance the moment he escaped Hades.

Him trying to please the Sisters doesn't mean shit, they were already in full cope mode well before Kratos even reached Icarus and ripped out his wings for himself (As early as the death of the Dark Rider).

Second key; it was stated that he fought again against the sister of fate but this time he defeated them instantly, how is this even enhanced, he already had resistance from before against them, unless he didn't adapt to it before.

The Sisters were initially able to interact with his Threads of Fate but were unable to do much with it (Tampering with it didn't do anything to sway Kratos, nor did touching it end his life, which the Sisters routinely do, they do not need to cut).

By the time Kratos makes it to their Loom Chamber on the Phoenix, the Sisters can no longer even interact with his Thread of Fate in any shape or form (Only Kratos can).

Third key has nothing so I don’t know, there’s literally nothing shows that it work instantly or seconds and idk why it’s mentioned twice when he already adapted to it when he was demigod and I don’t know why having the power of hope will enhance his RE either

The Power of Hope amplifies everything their wielder has to offer to its level, down to their very soul.

 

[Pedonar]

The same way he was gonna neg Athena who existed in a higher realm beyond Pantheons (Which are 5D Low 1-C constructs ATM because of Greece and Scandinavia) and was already above all the Gods of all Pantheons?

“He was gonna “

He didnt show anything.

Anyway:

My vote goes to han soo reason due to his law manipulation, even tho kratos has RE i doubt he will adapt in time, and his conceptual attacks are useless since he is going to fight an empty shell only. Or going to fight the exact copy of himself and thats another reason, once han soo scan kratos he can create infinite amount of him

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Okay

 

[KLOL506]

“He was gonna “

He didnt show anything.

Is this an actual argument? Athena begged him to give her the power and was literally scared shitless when Kratos said no and decided to pick up the Blade of Olympus before even proceeding to channel Hope through it.

Maybe actually play the games and read the profiles and explanation blogs before making up arguments like this.

Anyway:

My vote goes to han soo reason due to his law manipulation, even tho kratos has RE i doubt he will adapt in time, and his conceptual attacks are useless since he is going to fight an empty shell only. Or going to fight the exact copy of himself and thats another reason, once han soo scan kratos he create infinite amount of him

More power to you.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

This feels kinda stompish tbh

 

[Pedonar]

Is this an actual argument? Athena begged him to give her the power and was literally scared shitless when Kratos said no and decided to pick up the Blade of Olympus before even proceeding to channel Hope through it.

Maybe actually play the games and read the explanation blogs before making up arguments like this.


More power to you.

Or maybe cause she cant interact or use her power in that form

 

[KLOL506]

Or maybe cause she cant interact or use her power in that form

LMFAO what

She literally phased through Kratos to grab his corroded Blades of Athena and enhance them to the Blades of Exile, held Kratos's hands from touching the Flames of Olympus and even telekinetically moved Pandora to a safe position on the Box. WTF do you mean "Can't use her power in that form"? She literally holds Kratos's shoulder and utters "I trust you to do the right thing, Kratos". She can interact with lower-plane objects and use her powers there just fine.

Play the actual game first before you spew nonsense like this.

 

[Eseseso]

“He was gonna “

He didnt show anything.

This is an utterly stupid argument.

The game indicates he had the power to do it, he can do it.

 

[Eseseso]

This feels kinda stompish tbh

Who do you vote for (and why)?

 

[Pedonar]

LMFAO what

She literally phased through Kratos to grab his corroded Blades of Chaos and enhance them to the Blades of Exile, held Kratos's hands from touching the Flames of Olympus and even telekinetically moved Pandora to a safe position on the Box. WTF do you mean "Can't use her power in that form"? She literally holds Kratos's shoulder and utters "I trust you to do the right thing, Kratos". She can interact with lower-plane objects and use her powers there just fine.

Play the actual game first before you spew nonsense like this.

no way she can touch kratos

I didnt come here to test my knowledge of the game so stop saying read, play , understand.

My reason are

Kratos will fight an empty shell and he will need to enter fantasia dimension to kill/find the real han soo, the real han soo or the source exists beyonds the towers which are in also separate dimension so he will need to find him first

The moment kratos enters his territory he will get scanned and be parts of the system

By becoming part of the system han soo can modify analysis his power, if he got resistance to it, then he can use his data to create infinite amount of himself (kratos) similar to how he created the chaos dragon in the last arc.

If he didn’t succeed he might use his providence (Law)

Which ignore resistance, armor , stats and immortality and manipulate fate or similar to what ssosia did when she killed the first angel by just saying” i will assign you as a teacher “ she got full control and reduce her level to 0 which give her instant death

One more thing the moment he got scanned and registered, the system can control the growth system which is RE

Which controls someone evolution so his RE might got manipulated too

 

[KLOL506]

no way she can touch kratos

I didnt come here to test my knowledge of the game so stop saying read, play , understand.

Then don't debate in versus matchups, period.

My reason are

Kratos will fight an empty shell and he will need to enter fantasia dimension to kill/find the real han soo, the real han soo or the source exists beyonds the towers which are in also separate dimension so he will need to find him first

He can literally just snipe at Han Soo the same way he threatened to snipe Athena (Who's pretty much the same as Han Soo here, her real form exists beyond Pantheons), plus there's been a recent sitewide revision for range which, once applied, will effectively put this in Kratos's favor.

The moment kratos enters his territory he will get scanned and be parts of the system

Kratos doesn't have to set foot even once to do so. Just ask Athena

By becoming part of the system han soo can modify analysis his power, if he got resistance to it, then he can use his data to create infinite amount of himself (kratos) similar to how he created the chaos dragon in the last arc.

Kratos can literally do the same, drag his foes into a dimension of his own where they fight copies of themselves or Kratos just power-nulls for the hell of it.

If he didn’t succeed he might use his providence (Law)

Not even gonna bother with the back-and-forth on this one so this is whatever.

Which ignore resistance, armor , stats and immortality and manipulate fate or similar to what ssosia did when she killed the first angel by just saying” i will assign you as a teacher “ she got full control and reduce her level to 0 which give her instant death

All the powers you mentioned? Kratos resists and then some.

Also, do I really need to spell out that Kratos has layered CM1 here? Plus Conceptual Invulnerability and NPI shenanigans that not only make him uninteractible to other CM1 AE1 beings, but also allows him to murk them back?

 

[KLOL506]

If you still think the Law Manip can affect him here, fine, whatever, but I'd like us to settle this on agreeing to disagreeing and engaging in no more back-and-forths, because honestly I'm pretty sure we're not gonna be budging on our viewpoints. We already gave our votes, we should move on from this.

 

[Pedonar]

Then don't debate in versus matchups, period.

Thats so stupid.

He can literally just snipe at Han Soo the same way he threatened to snipe Athena (Who's pretty much the same as Han Soo here, her real form exists beyond Pantheons), plus there's been a recent sitewide revision for range which, once applied, will effectively put this in Kratos's favor.

well this is just an assumption and even if thats true, he will just be distracted by infinite amount of characters and version of himself

Kratos doesn't have to set foot even once to do so. Just ask Athena

Another assumption

Kratos can literally do the same, drag his foes into a dimension of his own where they fight copies of themselves or Kratos just power-nulls for the hell of it.

Another assumption

Not even gonna bother with the back-and-forth on this one so this is whatever.


All the powers you mentioned? Kratos resists and then some.

How does he resist RE ? He can build resistance but if its gonna manipulate his evolution or RE then how is he gonna resist it

Also, do I really need to spell out that Kratos has layered CM1 here? Plus Conceptual Invulnerability and NPI shenanigans that not only make him uninteractible to other CM1 AE1 beings, but also allows him to murk them back?

 

[Pedonar]

If you still think the Law Manip can affect him here, fine, whatever, but I'd like us to settle this on agreeing to disagreeing and engaging in no more back-and-forths, because honestly I'm pretty sure we're not gonna be budging on our viewpoints. We already gave our votes, we should move on from this.

Ok