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The Creator (Final Fantasy) possible upgrade

Zer00Negativo

Zer00Negativo

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well it is already common knowledge that the first games in the franchise that have crystals were created by an entity, the Creator, who with his words said to have created countless crystals and spread across countless worlds, and one of those countless worlds is the world where it takes place Chocobo Tales, I know it seems kind of illogical for being chocobo Tales and not one of the main games, but believe me, it's more connected with the main series than it seems, and it all starts in Final Fantasy Fables: chocobo tales, the The whole game is based on our protagonist going into books to experience past stories of the world, and in one of these stories there is a very interesting one called The Legend of Crystals that tells exactly that:



"Once upon a time, the universe was nothing but a vast expanse of emptiness.



After endless cycles, into the perpetual void appeared 'the Creator, bearing four crystals.



The yellow crystal illuminated the darkness, bringing light into existence.



The green crystal molded planets and stars from the nothingness, bringing the bountiful land into existence.



The blue crystal blessed the land with water, bringing life into existence.



The red crystal delivered the warmth of life to the universe, perpetuating the growth of all living creatures.



However, there was one entity which looked upon the new universe unfavorably: the dark monarch who had ruled over the emptiness.



To oppose the new form of the cosmos, the monarch brought into existence the fifth source of energy... the black crystal.



The black crystal twisted light to cast a shadow. Much of the land was turned hostile and barren. The seas were made to rage and given the power to take life and deliver death. Fire became a force that could incinerate anything and everything within its crimson inferno.



Like a parasite, the black crystal fed off the darkness inside the hearts of all living things. Its glow continued to become more distinct and powerful.



When the world overflows with the darkness of anger, hate, and fear, the fragile balance of the crystals is shattered and the black crystal reigns sovereign over all creation.



Light fades into shadow...



Terra firm crumbles to dust...



Water is turned to poison...



Fire abolishes all...



After the flicker of life beat so very strongly for so very long, will the form of the universe retake its original shape -- a lonely, empty void where darkness wields the specter of rule over all it surveys?"
Click to expand...







As you can see this part says precisely that the universe was a vast expanse of nothing until the appearance of the creator carrying the 4 crystals, the universe/crystals appearing out of nowhere is also something covered in classic games like in Final Fantasy III https://youtu.be/0JN7ItDw3Ig and Final Fantasy V.
youtu.be

FINAL FANTASY V Ending

Ending #86Final Fantasy V Developer: Square EnixPublisher: Square EnixSteam2015The 16-bit step child, the "Lost Boy" of gaming, the, um, leper at Square...we...
youtu.be youtu.be


Continuing with the myth, this time the story tells us the fundamental role of crystals in the evolutionary process of living beings:

Those brought into existence by the first four crystals were born in fear of the darkness.


However, the creator had given his children the key to open all doors -- the potential to change.


After countless years, certain creatures acquired wings that permitted them to soar through the heavens. Others grew fangs and horns to protect themselves, while some were even granted titanic bodies that allowed them to traverse the land without fear.


'''Life spun itself into many shapes as the potential to change"' gave living creatures the chance to combat the darkness.


Then came the last two races to be born into the cosmos.


The first had no claws or fangs, nor a shell, but instead possessed wisdom...


They came to be known as humans.


The second had wings that carried them not into lofty skies, but between the world of darkness and this one...


They came to be known as chocobos.


Humans and chocobos...


Only by working together did they finally overcome the monarch of the emptiness, Bebuzzu.


This was how all living creatures declared an end to the fear of darkness, a solution that took over 40 billion years to come into realization.


And finally,


they step into tomorrow
Click to expand...









There is a mention exactly like this in Final Fantasy IV: After Years when the creator mentions the fundamental role of crystals in the evolution of living beings:







Where do I want to go? Well basically the chocobo in all the games in the series can only defeat his villains with the power of the crystals or after he restores the light of the crystals, it turns out that the chocobo is a VERY powerful character, for starters he was able to defeat Bebuzzu in Chocobo fables after restoring the crystals light and Bebuzzu is simply the monarch of the void who ruled the void before creation, being basically the antithesis of the Creator mentioned in the myths and also the one who created the black crystal. The chocobo has also faced Omega several times in his games and was described as the destroyer of worlds.





Just like he already faced shinryu



But the omega that is the key piece here, in Final Fantasy XIV there is a cartoonish looking chocobo named Alpha who Cid even mentions is an otherworldly chocobo, Alpha is actually a being created by Omega whose appearance was said by omega to have been based on a chocobo he met in another world "'whose power rivaled his"'
https://imgur.com/a/KYBENzK


and this encounter is shown to us in Chocobo Mystery dungeon at a certain part in the game where our chocobo/protagonist acquires the same robes as Alpha and also enters the interdimensional rift where "a certain someone" mentions collecting data from him, just like he does in FFXIV where he is also faced within the interdimensional rift.

https://imgur.com/a/Ee2Xkcl

Omega makes literally the same statement in ffxiv https://imgur.com/a/BUnQZhW

And when we finally meet Omega, his appearance is exactly the same as the omega in FFXIV.

https://youtu.be/oqmQyn8ifSY

finalfantasy.fandom.com

Omega (Final Fantasy XIV)

The Omega, initially designated M-017, is a character and boss from Final Fantasy XIV. First mentioned in post- A Realm Reborn story, then appearing during the post-Heavensward patches, in the lead-up to Stormblood, it played an extended role in the Omega raid series. Initially believed to be an...
finalfantasy.fandom.com finalfantasy.fandom.com

The fact is that FFXIV characters like the warrior of light could only face the Omega because of the power of the chocobo.

https://imgur.com/a/pMJS82l



And back to Mystery Dungeon, Bahamut described as Keeper of time whose power rivaled the chocobo says that his power is not enough to counter the power of the crystal.
https://imgur.com/a/m0wSnKk


And in the very myth of the crystals in Chocobo Fables it talks about the black crystal (which was overcome by the light ones) had power over all creation:



"'When the world overflows with the darkness of anger, hate, and fear, the fragile balance of the crystals is shattered and the black crystal reigns sovereign over all creation."'



Now considering all these factors and considering that the crystals were created by the creator I think the profile of the creator, the crystals and who else they climb with them should be updated to 2-A.
 
Last edited:
Not sure I buy the flat out 2-A buff for the crystals given Cloud of Darkness' 2-C feat being too much for them shoots their solid 2-A rating in the foot, at best this would make the crystals vary from 2-C to 2-A.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Not sure I buy the flat out 2-A buff for the crystals given Cloud of Darkness' 2-C feat being too much for them shoots their solid 2-A rating in the foot, at best this would make the crystals vary from 2-C to 2-A.
Click to expand...
Why is cloud of darkness' 2-C feat too much for them
 
the question of Cloud of Darkness has to do with its weakness and not with its destructive power exactly, it can only be defeated with the powers of light and darkness combined, so much so that the first time we face it it is invincible because we only have the powers of light, for example, if bartz fights her, he would probably not win as he only has the powers of light crystals despite being 2-A, however if cecil fights her then he would win as he has both light and dark crystals in his possession, despite being only 5-C

it's almost like superman, despite having low 2-C feats he would lose to a human with a kryponite pistol
 
I talked to Tarta and he commented an interesting thing that I had to check, in Japanese the kanji used to refer to the creator is the same used in FFIV (Kurieta)

 
@XXKINGXX69 not a good comparison when Exdeath has far more feats to upscale from than a random 6-C feat as opposed to CoD who only has a 2-C feat in her game.

@Zer00Negativo the characters would still need to be comparable to her in power to take her on. Even with the light and darkness powers they had to team up to destroy her, alone they weren’t enough so the weakness argument doesn’t really work here.
 
No bro,
batman doesn't need to be comparable to superman in power to defeat him as long as he has a kryponite stone, with CoD it's the same thing, they were attacking her with their weakness, the warriors of light at no time receive power up from the warriors of darkness to defeat her, it was the dark warriors themselves who infected CoD with darkness in a suicide attack so that the protagonists could have a chance.

If both worlds in FFIII were only light or only dark then no one could defeat her because both elements are needed, it has nothing to do with power.

And CoD only mentions the worlds of light and darkness because that's her goal, because in FFIII itself there are other worlds too, like the world of dreams and Eureka, which is between the universes


 
She herself says that she cannot be defeated with the powers of light alone, so if there were 50 light crystals in the protagonists' possession she would still not be defeated.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@XXKINGXX69 not a good comparison when Exdeath has far more feats to upscale from than a random 6-C feat as opposed to CoD who only has a 2-C feat in her game.

@Zer00Negativo the characters would still need to be comparable to her in power to take her on. Even with the light and darkness powers they had to team up to destroy her, alone they weren’t enough so the weakness argument doesn’t really work here.
Click to expand...
Having a 2-C feat doesn't make you limited to 2-C. Cloud of Darkness was also going to destroy the multiverse, in Dissidia it says all existence, not just 2 universes. It is also the Void, which created all things and transcends space and time, so that would be a 2-A feat
 
@Zer00Negativo when did it ever say she can withstand 50 crystals? You’re just making stuff up here.

You literally have no staff members agreeing with the full upgrades, let alone a good majority of them, so you’re not applying the changes unless you get more people to accept your CRT.

@XXKINGXX69 she’s not the entire void, she’s an emissary of the void, big difference here.
 
Yeah, it seems vague to consider the 4 crystals 2-A in general, especially since Base Exdeath really has no right to be 2-A as he literally needs the Void to perform his 2-A stuff.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Theglassman12 said:
@Zer00Negativo when did it ever say she can withstand 50 crystals? You’re just making stuff up here.

You literally have no staff members agreeing with the full upgrades, let alone a good majority of them, so you’re not applying the changes unless you get more people to accept your CRT.

@XXKINGXX69 she’s not the entire void, she’s an emissary of the void, big difference here.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I didn't say she held 50 crystals, I said if there were 50 crystals and those crystals were light only then she wouldn't be defeated because both elements are needed.

the upgrade of chocobo and Creator has nothing to do with the cloud of darkness but with the Omega that is 2-A, and the chocobo faces the same omega of FFXIV

Yeah but I sent the thread to many members, if they didn't want to comment, what do we do?
 
tbh I'm fine with the power of the crystals ranging from 2-C to 2-A, since the jobs in FF5 are derived from the power of the crystals. Omega from XIV also considers the chocobo that Alpha is derived from as having beaten an enemy on par with it, so that's also a pretty blatant statement.

I have no actual opinion on the creator part, though.
 
That doesn't mean she needs a 2-A power source to beat her, especially considering she's not the full void you need more than what she has in FF3 to prove she's beyond 2-C.

Cloud of Darkness is the major thing that's holding this revision back from making the crystals solid 2-A in the first place. So you'd need more evidence to prove solid 2-A than this.

Then you're gonna have to wait for them to comment, simple as that.
 
And the Void erasing all existence is where the 2-A scaling originates. Not to mention the Void is consistently stated to be "Infinitely" more powerful than Exdeath is normally. Also, "Needing the power of the crystals to defeat Exdeath" isn't proof the crystals are 2-A always. Besides, it just means that it's not as powerful. Plus the power of the crystals is inconsistent and consistently portrayed as being glass cannons. And it's not like all Heroes of Light are always using all of the crystal's power for other games, hence why not all end game Final Fantasy bosses are 2-A.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
And the Void erasing all existence is where the 2-A scaling originates. Not to mention the Void is consistently stated to be "Infinitely" more powerful than Exdeath is normally. Also, "Needing the power of the crystals to defeat Exdeath" isn't proof the crystals are 2-A always. Besides, it just means that it's not as powerful. Plus the power of the crystals is inconsistent and consistently portrayed as being glass cannons. And it's not like all Heroes of Light are always using all of the crystal's power for other games, hence why not all end game Final Fantasy bosses are 2-A.
Click to expand...
Where is it stated to be infinitely more powerful
 
Both the crystals in FFV and FFIII are portrayed as having arisen from the void, and it is they who keep the void away.

Literally every warrior of the light extracts the power of the crystal, and in the case of V it is even more curious because the crystals had already broken and what they used were just fragments, their own bodies that were being catalysts of light, so much so that when Galuf dies he passes all his power to Krile

and crystals only become glass cannons when they are out of balance
 
@XXKINGXX69 you just said he needed the Void to erase everything, the thing that makes him 2-A in the first place is that feat alone so you shot your argument in the foot there.

@Zer00Negativo You mean the same crystals that loses their light and power when the Cloud of Darkness spreads its influence in the world? And it tries to destroy both the Light and Dark world, which at best is 2-C? That doesn't address the argument that CoD being too much for the crystals and they needed to team up with the Dark Warriors to remotely stand a chance.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@XXKINGXX69 you just said he needed the Void to erase everything, the thing that makes him 2-A in the first place is that feat alone so you shot your argument in the foot there.

@Zer00Negativo You mean the same crystals that loses their light and power when the Cloud of Darkness spreads its influence in the world? And it tries to destroy both the Light and Dark world, which at best is 2-C? That doesn't address the argument that CoD being too much for the crystals and they needed to team up with the Dark Warriors to remotely stand a chance.
Click to expand...
There are spells stronger than the Void, like Ultima, which he can survive
 
Ultima Tome doesn't really have the most consistent origin story, and at best we can only prove that it should canonically be what is arguably what finishes off Emperor Mateus in canon. But even then, like any other Final Fantasy tome, the potency is mostly dependent on the caster rather than the tome/spell itself. Still, Cloud of Darkness only has a baseline 2-C feat and the Crystals are only capable of amping the heroes based on situation at hand at best really. And not ever user of the Void was able to tap into all of its power.
 
Zer00Negativo said:
I talked to Tarta and he commented an interesting thing that I had to check, in Japanese the kanji used to refer to the creator is the same used in FFIV (Kurieta)
Click to expand...

Just in case, and apologies for coming off as pedantic (and correct me if I'm wrong), the word for "Creator" used here in Chocobo Tales is not the same as the character from the After Years. They are written differently.

While both terms translate to "Creator" in English (reason why it led to confusion in the first place, given the automatic translation), the word they use is different: in the After Years the character's name is written in Katakana and it's literally the english word "Creator" written in Japanese pronunciation: ク (ku) リ (ri) エー (e) ター (ta).

Meanwhile, the word in the Chocobo Tales comes from this bit:

ずっと昔、この宇宙はただ曲だけが広がる暗黒の世界でした。
「そこに「創造主」が現れ四つのクリスタルをつくりました。

Zutto mukashi, kono uchū wa tada kyoku dake ga hirogaru ankoku no sekaideshita. Soko ni sōzōnushi' ga araware yottsu no kurisutaru o tsukurimashita.

Long ago, this universe was a dark world with only songs.
Then the "Creator" appeared and made four crystals.

The English word クリエー ター (kurieta), the name of the FFIV character, is not in that fragment of story in Chocobo Tales. The word used for "Creator" is sōzōnushi the Japanese term to refer to a creator god in monotheistic religions. The Kanji used for it are 創 (Pronounced "So", meaning Genesis) 造 (Pronounced "zo", meaning to create or make) and 主 (Can be pronounced "nushi", meaning lord). It seems to just be a generic way of saying "the god who made the universe" rather than refer to a specific character.
 
it refers to the same thing at the end, and "Creator" isn't exactly his name, he says it's the name they call him
 
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