The Courier Lifting Strength Upgrade.

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So I was just playing Fallout New Vegas and killed Cook Cook when I remembered "Oh yeah, The Courier can literally tear a man's head from his body and has to do it two more times to two other Fiends". Wouldn't that be Class 5 Lifting Strength?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Courier : for quicker editing.

Feat Here at 8:00:

 

[NotoriouSoda]

It think it would, does ripping off heads usually result in class 5?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It think it would, does ripping off heads usually result in class 5?

I asked some of the Calc Group Members and that's what they told me.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I asked some of the Calc Group Members and that's what they told me.

Alright then you can add this after you get some mods to agree

 

[Keeweed]

Is there any reason to assume he just physically ripped the head off and didn’t do something like cut it off. The game by this point assumes you have weapons and even generically enhanced super mutant’s best feat cap at class 1.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Because you can do it even without having any weapons in your Inventory.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah but that could just be a gameplay mechanic. All the dialogue from this mission has the character say to just shoot this guys. Implying the courier has guns on them. I think it is far more likely a gameplay vs story segregation and that in canon the courier just either had or grabbed a knife to cut the heads off. Rather than savagely ripping them off like a cave man.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I'm with Keeweed here. The Courier easily ripping off their head rather than just cutting it off seems like a gameplay thing rather than a actual thing.

Though if you can find anything in the Fallout 4 scripted special kills those can be used as a justification.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Can you prove it's just Gameplay Mechanics? All that happens is you take their head. It doesn't even take that long, you just do it. Plus, again, no weapons and can still do it so I don't buy The Courier just spontaneously spawning a blade and cutting their heads off, especially with how specific Fallout games are about having specific items for specific actions.

 

[Keeweed]

“It doesn't even take that long, you just do it.” Even assuming he did just blindly rip the heads straight off this would still be gameplay mechanics.

If we talk about the strict item and stat requirements, why doesn’t this head rip require a strength check when much less impressive feats do? It’s literally a one second thing that happens in a side quest. A moronic oversight like, how does the courier actually get the heads, is bound to happen. It’s way more likely to assume the Courier had a weapon on them or just grabbed something sharp from a dead fiend, rather than ripping the head off like a bloodlusted gorilla.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can you prove it's just Gameplay Mechanics?

Well besides there being no supporting feats, as previously mentioned the quest and dialogue assume the Courier has weapons by this point

One more thing. If you want the full reward, you need to bring me a recognizable head. My superiors need proof they're gone. That means no headshots. No decapitations 'til after they're dead. And no damage to the face. If you want to be safe, aim for the chest. You bring me a head that looks like a rotten tomato, people will be doubting, and I won't be authorized to pay the entire bounty. Good luck to you. And don't get careless.

The game never assumes the Courier is going places with zero weapons or equipment except in places where they're taken away from you and you don't have ways to get around it. Like with the Legion Arena or in Dead Money.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That's still just you saying it's Game Mechanics without proving it is. You just saying "The game assumes you have weapons" isn't evidence that he can't do it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The Supporting Feats thing, sure, but it's not like The Courier is just some random Scrub either, they're pretty damn strong.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's still just you saying it's Game Mechanics without proving it is.

The thing is, without supporting evidence you would need to show why it isn't gameplay mechanics. Not the other way around. What other supporting feats for Class 5 strength are there?

 

[Keeweed]

The game literally tells you about how you are going to shoot them. The game says you have guns and weapons on you. It even says to decapitate them to get the heads. It is very clear what the developers are implying when you get the heads.

Assuming you ripped the head off takes more assumptions than just assuming they had a knife on them or grabbed a knife from the multitude of fiends around them. Since ripping there heads off implies: the courier blindly charged into a gun fight with zero weapons, won that fight, decided to rip the corpse’s head off, had the strength to do that in the first place vs doing what the game said you would do: grab a sharp object and decapitate the corpse for the head.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

To be fair, he does it three separate times, but still. The only supporting feats I can think of is The Sole Survivor Snapping people's necks which is Class 1 if I remember correctly.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The game literally tells you about how you are going to shoot them. The game says you have guns and weapons on you. It even says to decapitate them to get the heads. It is very clear what the developers are implying when you get the heads.

Assuming you ripped the head off takes more assumptions than just assuming they had a knife on them or grabbed a knife from the multitude of fiends around them. Since ripping there heads off implies: the courier blindly charged into a gun fight with zero weapons, won that fight, decided to rip the corpse’s head off, had the strength to do that in the first place vs doing what the game said you would do: grab a sharp object and decapitate the corpse for the head.

I never said he blindly charged in without any weapons, but you can do the feat without any weapons in your Inventory.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The thing is, without supporting evidence you would need to show why it isn't gameplay mechanics. Not the other way around. What other supporting feats for Class 5 strength are there?

Actually, you got that backwards. Fallout is a Gameplay based Medium, so you have to bring evidence that contradicts what you do in Gameplay.

 

[Keeweed]

I never said he blindly charged in without any weapons, but you can do the feat without any weapons in your Inventory.

Which implies they fought the fiends with no equipment. Since they should still have that equipment when they are collecting the heads.

 

[Keeweed]

Actually, you got that backwards. Fallout is a Gameplay based Medium, so you have to bring evidence that contradicts what you do in Gameplay.

The gameplay doesn’t show anything. You loot a head off an inventory and the head on the model explodes. This feat is a mess full of gameplay mechanics everywhere.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Fallout is a Gameplay based Medium, so you have to bring evidence that contradicts what you do in Gameplay.

Fallout is a lore based medium, with gameplay elements there to back up stuff the lore doesn't have.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Fallout is a lore based medium, with gameplay elements there to back up stuff the lore doesn't have.

Err....
Lore doesn't say what the Courier exactly does when he gets revenge, so saying it's a "Lore-Based Medium" makes no sense since there's an actual absence in the lore, which is filled by the gameplay.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Lore doesn't say what the Courier exactly does when he gets revenge, so saying it's a "Lore-Based Medium" makes no sense since there's an actual absence in the lore, which is filled by the gameplay.

Dialogue, quest lines, what they write in the Pipboy, and preset environmental stuff are all lore. Ripping off heads when the dialogue assumes the courier has weapons isn't lore.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Dialogue, quest lines, what they write in the Pipboy, and preset environmental stuff are all lore. Ripping off heads when the dialogue assumes the courier has weapons isn't lore.

That quote assumes nothing. They're telling you headshots are no go as well as decapitations (Which is a melee thing FYI) and if you wanna go the easiest route, aim for the chest. Literally they're telling you "Probably easiest to do this but in the end it's up to you".

 

[Qawsedf234]

They're telling you headshots are no go as well as decapitations (Which is a melee thing FYI) and if you wanna go the easiest route, aim for the chest. Literally they're telling you "Probably easiest to do this but in the end it's up to you".

And what they present us is the assumption that you have weapons. Which like Keeweed said makes the assumption that they did it with their bare hands something not supported.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

And what they present us is the assumption that you have weapons. Which like Keeweed said makes the assumption that they did it with their bare hands something not supported.

If we're going end-game "Did everything" Courier, he did go around punching people. The Courier specifically learned from several Unarmed Combat Users across the Mojave specifically to punch people to death.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Courier specifically learned from several Unarmed Combat Users across the Mojave specifically to punch people to death.

The following moves are

• The Ranger Takedown. A move taught to knock someone off their feet and has the following in-game description

When caught without their weapons, NCR's rangers rely on the Ranger Takedown to quickly incapacitate opponents. Perform a Power Attack while moving backwards to execute a Ranger Takedown.

• The Legion Assault which is used by the Praetorians per the description of the technique,

Caesar's elite cadre of bodyguards, the legendary praetorians, use an aggressive Legion Assault to brutalize enemies. Perform a Power Attack while running forward to execute the Legion Assault.

All of whom have power fist style weapons to boost their unarmed abilities

• The Scribe Counter, which is just you blocking an attack and countering
• And the Khan Trick, which is just the pocket sand meme.

The abilities are either a backup option for when you don't have a weapon, are used by people who use power fists or ballistic fists, a counter move, and sand. None of that is implying the Courier is going around fighting barehanded.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

" Wall level (Far tougher than a normal human, can fight large monsters in hand-to-hand combat), weapons range from Street level to Building level (Many of his weapons are capable of this level of destruction. energy weapons such as the Laser Rifle is capable of turning large bears to ash and the Fat Man fires small scale nuclear missiles) (Destroyed giant robo-scorpion that can tank mini-nukes. Fought Tunnelers, a creature that can rip Deathclaws in half.)"

We already assume Courier can fist-fight large monsters and we assume his weapons can beat Tunnelers, who 1-shots Deathclaws. These are accepted things already.

Stella (Fallout: New Vegas)

Ranger Stella is an NCR Ranger who was captured by the Legion and is being held prisoner in the Fort in 2281. Stella is an NCR Ranger who was captured by Caesar's Legion. She is now forced to fight in the Legion arena at the Fort. She is very skilled in unarmed combat and has killed many...

fallout.fandom.com

This girl was stripped of all her armour and went up against Caesar's Elites bare-handed and she slaughtered them.
You get a machete to fight her but you don't have to use it either.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I would like to point out the fact that VSB already accepts the fact that the Courier can Fist Fight Deathclaws, meaning he should scale, and if you don't agree with that, I propose that it should be its own CRT.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This girl was stripped of all her armour and went up against Caesar's Elites bare-handed and she slaughtered them.

Caesar's elite were also stripped of their equipment.

We already assume Courier can fist-fight large monsters and we assume his weapons can beat Tunnelers, who 1-shots Deathclaws. These are accepted things already.

Hand to hand combat does not mean unarmed combat. Its just close ranged combat, which considering the dozens of melee and unarmed weapons they have fits with the description.

Having high AP also does not translate to lifting strength. As evidence by Goku or Wonder Woman.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just want to say that "Hand-To-Hand" is literal since the girl forgoes any weapon since she's literally more dangerous with her fists than she is with a weapon. What I'm getting at is that he blatantly scales to shit like Deathclaws and Tunnelers and even more so, the Tunnelers don't even attempt to attack you on the way out of The Divide after finishing it as stated verbatim in the cutscene, the residents of The Divide just leave you alone on your way out.

 

[Qawsedf234]

what I'm getting at is that he blatantly scales to shit like Deathclaws and Tunnelers and even more so

Which is fine. The issue brought up is that there's no supporting evidence for Class 5 and the dialogue assumes you have weapons on hand when you do the quest. Its easier to assume the Courier just cut off the head rather than change with no weapons and rip it off with their barehands.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mean, there's nothing stopping him from doing that either though.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sure, but why assume the highest possible interpretation when someone more basic and plausible is available.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Because it honestly doesn't make sense to me that he just pulls a blade out of his ass when you don't have one. Look, I'm sorry if I came off as hostile or anything, it just that it makes more sense to me that he just tears it off when you don't have anything.

 

[Qawsedf234]

when you don't have anything.

But the thing is you do have something. The dialogue says as much. Its what Keeweed was saying from the start.

 

[Waka1979]

I agree with weed and qawsed.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just realized that Deathclaws have Class 5 on their Profile and The Courier Scales to them on his Profile. Why wasn't he made Class 5 because of that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah they can throw cars. But like, why would the Courier scale? Can any PC even physically match a Deathclaw? Even in PA they usually get manhandled badly.

 

[Ediros]

The Courier does scale though. Legate Lanius can knock things to the ground and the Courier can send deathclaw flying: