Just_Butchering
He/Him- 682
- 371
This thread aim to downgrade The Boys' members - Billy Butcher, Mother's Milk and Frenchie I'd love to mention Hughie, but uh, I'll creat his profile after this and the other CRT revisions - from Wall level to (most likely) Street level.
First, let's address the term outlier from the VSB Wiki:
"An Outlier is an event or indident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power"
And going more in dept, it lists 5 requirements that, while not necessarily all 5 should be fulfilled, I think two of them are worth bringing up:
4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.
5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.
Both of these, but more importantly, the last one, are checked when considering the current scaling.
Current explation/feats for the scaling
Butcher - and co. - currently scale from two feats:
Let's address the first one, well, first: Butcher hurting Traslucent is an outlier within the own logic/narrative of the verse.
The Boys, very straightforwardly summarized, is a series about a bunch of humans using their guts and wits to take down the most powerful supes in the world. And that premise alone should be enough to ring a bell: Butcher here is fighting and hurting a supe.
But, why specifically is this an outlier?
Right before the fight, we see Translucent getting hit by a car, and surviving it, without any injuries. Already, we this showing, Billy shouldn't be able to even scratch him following the verse's own logic of him being a regular -really strong and well-trained sure - human, but we also see that he laughs off getting shot by a modified .50 caliber bullet from a Serbu BFG at point-blank range. For contrast, Annie felt a good deal of pain while getting shot by the normal .50 round from a greater distance, yet Butcher doesn't even go physical with her. Heck, to add even more context for the gap between the two: Butcher can - at best - stagger Stormfront by hitting her on the back with a crowbar - and as he keeps attacking, his attacks seem to be even more inneffective, whereas Annie can drew blood for her with her strikes.
And speaking of the fight with Translucent, while for a guy with no training whatsoever fighting and hurting a former SAS agent like Butcher is still impressive, he doesn't seem to have superhumanly-enhanced strength - or at least most definitely not Wall level. He attacks Hughie - we would get to his durability feats later, but for the narrative's logic - who is an ordinary guy, and while he ragdolls him with ease, he doesn't seem to hurt too badly, but he also goes out of his way to grab a TV to finish him off, when he should have the strength to do it. Not only that, but despite having the upperhand during the fight and badly injuring Billy, he still didn't seem to do any serious damage, and, again, goes out of his way to grab a weapon - now a crowbar - to, and I quote, "smash his scalp off", which he is incapable of doing without a weapon.
So, while Traslucent would still scale from fighting and hurting Butcher, this shows that neither has Wall level AP.
But now, what about the shockwave feat?
Well, first of all, I made a calc for that feat, and the results I got were Street level, not wall level.
But, as you can see - and hear - on the link, Starlight was there too, and she got blown away too, and seemingly from her grunting, fell some pain.
Now, this could be a case of the writers downplaying Annie rather than buffing Butcher - and also my calc could be wrong lol - so this point should be further discussed.
Proposition for the new scaling
Ok, so let's say that both feats are disregarded - or that we need support for a 9-C rating - what feats do we have?
Butcher:
With the evidence and feats presented, I want to suggest that The Boys' human members get downgraded from Wall level to Street level - since I'm pretty sure that's the rating for most of theirs 'being sent flying' feats are - as well as downgrading Translucent's AP - his durability remains the same, or maybe we could argue for him to scale above Annie, given how he reacted to getting shot compare to her, and that Frenchie could cut Annie with a saw whereas none of his tools worked on Translucent, but uh, that's a different topic.
First, let's address the term outlier from the VSB Wiki:
"An Outlier is an event or indident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power"
And going more in dept, it lists 5 requirements that, while not necessarily all 5 should be fulfilled, I think two of them are worth bringing up:
4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.
5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.
Both of these, but more importantly, the last one, are checked when considering the current scaling.
Current explation/feats for the scaling
Butcher - and co. - currently scale from two feats:
Let's address the first one, well, first: Butcher hurting Traslucent is an outlier within the own logic/narrative of the verse.
The Boys, very straightforwardly summarized, is a series about a bunch of humans using their guts and wits to take down the most powerful supes in the world. And that premise alone should be enough to ring a bell: Butcher here is fighting and hurting a supe.
But, why specifically is this an outlier?
Right before the fight, we see Translucent getting hit by a car, and surviving it, without any injuries. Already, we this showing, Billy shouldn't be able to even scratch him following the verse's own logic of him being a regular -really strong and well-trained sure - human, but we also see that he laughs off getting shot by a modified .50 caliber bullet from a Serbu BFG at point-blank range. For contrast, Annie felt a good deal of pain while getting shot by the normal .50 round from a greater distance, yet Butcher doesn't even go physical with her. Heck, to add even more context for the gap between the two: Butcher can - at best - stagger Stormfront by hitting her on the back with a crowbar - and as he keeps attacking, his attacks seem to be even more inneffective, whereas Annie can drew blood for her with her strikes.
And speaking of the fight with Translucent, while for a guy with no training whatsoever fighting and hurting a former SAS agent like Butcher is still impressive, he doesn't seem to have superhumanly-enhanced strength - or at least most definitely not Wall level. He attacks Hughie - we would get to his durability feats later, but for the narrative's logic - who is an ordinary guy, and while he ragdolls him with ease, he doesn't seem to hurt too badly, but he also goes out of his way to grab a TV to finish him off, when he should have the strength to do it. Not only that, but despite having the upperhand during the fight and badly injuring Billy, he still didn't seem to do any serious damage, and, again, goes out of his way to grab a weapon - now a crowbar - to, and I quote, "smash his scalp off", which he is incapable of doing without a weapon.
So, while Traslucent would still scale from fighting and hurting Butcher, this shows that neither has Wall level AP.
But now, what about the shockwave feat?
Well, first of all, I made a calc for that feat, and the results I got were Street level, not wall level.
But, as you can see - and hear - on the link, Starlight was there too, and she got blown away too, and seemingly from her grunting, fell some pain.
Now, this could be a case of the writers downplaying Annie rather than buffing Butcher - and also my calc could be wrong lol - so this point should be further discussed.
Proposition for the new scaling
Ok, so let's say that both feats are disregarded - or that we need support for a 9-C rating - what feats do we have?
Butcher:
- He is a former SAS agent, so that already should put him above ordinary humans
- Killed Mesmer - a supe sure, but for all that he showed, he was just as strong a regular human - by repeatedly bashing his head on a sink
- Fought with and killed another former SAS agent
- For his durability, he withstood getting thrown into a tree by Stormfront without major injuries
- He withstood a telekinetic push from Kenji, alongside Frenchie and Hughie - not MM, like his profile says for some reason
- He is former marine, so that also should put him above regular humans - and also, look how he is build.
- He could knock out - and sent to intensive care apparently - his Commanding Officer with one punch
- He knocked out a russian soldier (?) with one hit - seemingly unarmed
- He once again knocks another guy out with one punch
- He threatened to break Mesmer's wrist
- For his durability, He walked out of a car that was flung several meters like nothing happened
- He withstoods getting thrown by Stomrfront alongside Hughie and Frenchie
- He apparently knocked out a Vought agent unarmed
- For durability, apart from the other feats mentioned, he and Hughie withstood the blast wave of an explosion
- Apart from the other feats he already scales from, he withstood a held back attack from Starlight, though he ended up with several bruises
- He withstood getting thrown into a glass wall hard enough to crack it
With the evidence and feats presented, I want to suggest that The Boys' human members get downgraded from Wall level to Street level - since I'm pretty sure that's the rating for most of theirs 'being sent flying' feats are - as well as downgrading Translucent's AP - his durability remains the same, or maybe we could argue for him to scale above Annie, given how he reacted to getting shot compare to her, and that Frenchie could cut Annie with a saw whereas none of his tools worked on Translucent, but uh, that's a different topic.
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