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The Boys discussion thread

Just_Butchering said:
The 8-C+ method is just wishing to Nerf the verse 💀
Click to expand...
8e950dcf-209e-4e78-a906-03ae89e9eac2
 
Just_Butchering said:
It feels way too nitpicky, and it was addressed by others in the comments

I can (painfully) live with the downgrade to High 8-C, but 8-C is a bit much imo

Especially when the weaker characters are 8-C themselves
Click to expand...
I see it as consistent since character that were 8-C like Maeve are able to harm Homelander level character albeit slightly. Makes a heck of a lot more sense than basic combat training boosting Maeve's durability and AP hundreds of times over in order to contend with Homelander.
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
I see it as consistent since character that were 8-C like Maeve are able to harm Homelander level character albeit slightly. Makes a heck of a lot more sense than basic combat training boosting Maeve's durability and AP hundreds of times over in order to contend with Homelander.
Click to expand...
While consistency matter, if a method is wrong, is wrong, that's it.
Secondly, A High 8-C Homelander would still be justifiable, since it would imply a 6-12 times boost (depending on the accepted end) from Maeve's training and Starlight's supercharge

(Also, I think the supes should be straight 8-C imo)
 
Just_Butchering said:
While consistency matter, if a method is wrong, is wrong, that's it.
Secondly, A High 8-C Homelander would still be justifiable, since it would imply a 6-12 times boost (depending on the accepted end) from Maeve's training and Starlight's supercharge

(Also, I think the supes should be straight 8-C imo)
Click to expand...
And if a method is right, it's right. If the new method takes into account more than the old method did then it should be used, simple as. Consistency just helps in that regard.
 
I think after work I'd help to see if the calculation gets accepted and make a CRT about it. For the downgrade to the god tiers, but also to upgrade the rest to plain 8-C instead of a "possibly" rating.

Maybe also bring the funny idea of 8-C weapons(?
 
Imo the 8-C+ calculation is too exaggerated in terms of detail, even more so considering the simplicity of the fiction with the explosions.
 
I honestly don't think we're strict enough when it comes to fiction and characters surviving explosions. We take into account all other types of real world physics in order to accurately gauge how much a character destroys or survives such as factoring in kinetic energy or destruction values, why shouldn't we apply the same scrutiny to explosions? Not to mention its actually a rule in the calculations pages but no-one seems to follow it.
"Let's say an explosion occurs and a character endures the explosion.

For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
If that explosion doesn't occur that close to the character the amount of energy that hits it will be significantly lower than the full energy of the explosion. To find the actual amount of the energy from the explosion that he/she tanks one first applies the inverse square law."

Also this
"When a character in fiction is to be hit by an explosion, we must keep in mind that at times he may not endure its full brunt, realistically. We must apply this formula at times, to see how much he truly survived. If such yield proves more consistent with his showings, then it would be preferred to use such number given from inverse square law."
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
I honestly don't think we're strict enough when it comes to fiction and characters surviving explosions. We take into account all other types of real world physics in order to accurately gauge how much a character destroys or survives such as factoring in kinetic energy or destruction values, why shouldn't we apply the same scrutiny to explosions?
Click to expand...
Honestly I’ve seen plenty of calcs be absolutely gutted because of Inverse Square Law for explosions and shit. Are there any particular examples of us not doing stuff like that?
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
I honestly don't think we're strict enough when it comes to fiction and characters surviving explosions. We take into account all other types of real world physics in order to accurately gauge how much a character destroys or survives such as factoring in kinetic energy or destruction values, why shouldn't we apply the same scrutiny to explosions? Not to mention its actually a rule in the calculations pages but no-one seems to follow it.
"Let's say an explosion occurs and a character endures the explosion.

For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
If that explosion doesn't occur that close to the character the amount of energy that hits it will be significantly lower than the full energy of the explosion. To find the actual amount of the energy from the explosion that he/she tanks one first applies the inverse square law."

Also this
"When a character in fiction is to be hit by an explosion, we must keep in mind that at times he may not endure its full brunt, realistically. We must apply this formula at times, to see how much he truly survived. If such yield proves more consistent with his showings, then it would be preferred to use such number given from inverse square law."
Click to expand...
The story narratives themselves tend to treat surviving any part of the explosion as equal to the full blast.
 
Da3ggman said:
Honestly I’ve seen plenty of calcs be absolutely gutted because of Inverse Square Law for explosions and shit. Are there any particular examples of us not doing stuff like that?
Click to expand...
Here's one from Baki, another from Hellsing, one from Kenichi, one from Hunter X Hunter, and one from Demon Slayer. This took me all of 10 minutes scrolling through the anime section to compile.
Cropfist said:
The story narratives themselves tend to treat surviving any part of the explosion as equal to the full blast.
Click to expand...
Take that up with the wiki rules then.
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
Here's one from Baki
Click to expand...
Katsumi face tanking the explosion, though it’s weird for a totally different reason than what you’re talking about (it’s a dust explosion, so I’m not sure if it works like a normal one in the way we scale durability).
FuriousFieryFist said:
another from Hellsing
Click to expand...
Pretty sure he’s like right next to the explosion, though I can’t tell for certain since the dude didn’t put the whole feat in the blog (hate when they do that tbh). It might go down a bit if those crates are the origin of the explosion and he doesn’t move closer? Again, I can’t really see the feat to judge.
FuriousFieryFist said:
one from Kenichi
Click to expand...
This one’s just measuring the sheer size of the explosion, so it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
FuriousFieryFist said:
one from Hunter X Hunter
Click to expand...
Once again, just measuring the size of the explosion itself, not how much energy a character tanked.
FuriousFieryFist said:
and one from Demon Slayer
Click to expand...
The explosion is literally on Rengoku’s ass, it’d qualify for full value scaling.
FuriousFieryFist said:
This took me all of 10 minutes scrolling through the anime section to compile.
Click to expand...
Then you scroll some more, because none of these prove your point.

(Btw I do think there’s an issue with inverse square law stuff on the wiki in some cases, but you’ve gotta give some actual examples).
 
Da3ggman said:
Katsumi face tanking the explosion, though it’s weird for a totally different reason than what you’re talking about (it’s a dust explosion, so I’m not sure if it works like a normal one in the way we scale durability).
Click to expand...
For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
Da3ggman said:
This one’s just measuring the sheer size of the explosion, so it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Click to expand...
Characters scale to it
Da3ggman said:
Once again, just measuring the size of the explosion itself, not how much energy a character tanked.
Click to expand...
Characters scale to it.
Da3ggman said:
The explosion is literally on Rengoku’s ass, it’d qualify for full value scaling.
Click to expand...
For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
Da3ggman said:
Then you scroll some more, because none of these prove your point.
Click to expand...
But I did and you refuse to acknowledge it. I could keep scrolling and find dozens more for you to judge if you want. Or you can go look yourself since its really not that hard.
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
Click to expand...
It does meet the third requirement tho??? It’s just weird because of how the explosion is created, idk what you want me to say lol.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Characters scale to it
Click to expand...
The profile says that he withstood it point blank, therefore it meets the conditions of the third requirement.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Characters scale to it.
Click to expand...
I literally can’t see the feat, so I’ll just give you this one.
FuriousFieryFist said:
For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
Click to expand...
Dawg what are we doing here? The dynamite is literally right next to him in all directions, that meets the third requirement for scaling.
FuriousFieryFist said:
But I did and you refuse to acknowledge it.
Click to expand...
I disagree.
FuriousFieryFist said:
I could keep scrolling and find dozens more for you to judge if you want. Or you can go look yourself since it’s really not that hard.
Click to expand...
Keep scrolling, because you seem to completely ignore the third way for characters to scale to explosion feats.
 
Last edited:
Da3ggman said:
It does meet the third requirement tho??? It’s just weird because of how the explosion is created, idk what you want me to say lol.
Click to expand...
This is honestly the only one I can see scaling, since he's covered in the explosive powder, so I actually rescind my previous statement on this one.
Da3ggman said:
The profile says that he withstood it point blank, therefore it meets the conditions of the third requirement.
Click to expand...
He grabs onto the missile that is far larger than him, which is where the the problem arises because the third criteria requires two things to be true
1. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it - which is true in this instance, but...
2. The bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them - Which is not true.
Da3ggman said:
Dawg what are we doing here? The dynamite is literally right next to him in all directions, that meets the third requirement for scaling.
Click to expand...
Looking back on this, since the wiki has no set determination of what "directly adjacent" means I could see this being valid but still some of these sticks of dynamite appear a decent distance away from Rengoku with some being even behind the demon he is fighting. Also, since this was done by multiple sticks of dynamite and not one large blast the calculation is still flawed.
Da3ggman said:
I disagree.
Click to expand...
Da3ggman said:
I literally can’t see the feat, so I’ll just give you this one.
Click to expand...
But you agreed with one of them?
Da3ggman said:
Keep scrolling, because you seem to completely ignore the third way for characters to scale to explosion feats.
Click to expand...
You seem to be ignoring that the third way requires the source of the explosion to be smaller than the character and for the character to be in extreme close proximity.
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
He grabs onto the missile that is far larger than him, which is where the the problem arises because the third criteria requires two things to be true
1. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it - which is true in this instance, but...
2. The bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them - Which is not true.
Click to expand...
The rules say it has to meet one requirement, not two or all three. Since you agree that it meets the one about him being next to it, you agree it’s fine.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Looking back on this, since the wiki has no set determination of what "directly adjacent" means I could see this being valid but still some of these sticks of dynamite appear a decent distance away from Rengoku with some being even behind the demon he is fighting.
Click to expand...
The vast majority of the sticks we see are less than a foot away from him, with the only one being remotely far away being the one behind the demon. Would it technically decrease the value since not every single one is right next to him? Yeah, technically, but definitely not to a significant degree, and it’s certainly not that crazy to assume they are close enough to Renogku to mostly scale.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Also, since this was done by multiple sticks of dynamite and not one large blast the calculation is still flawed.
Click to expand...
This could definitely be a point of contention, but then the calc would be wrong for a different reason than you stated, and thus not relevant to your premise.

Also I think we had a thread recently with a Ruby test similar and it was fine for this kind of scaling, but I digress.
FuriousFieryFist said:
But you agreed with one of them?
Click to expand...
I agreed because I couldn’t find the exact feat it’s talking about, and am giving you the benefit of the doubt, since none of the other feats you showed are wrong because of the thing you were complaining about. I don’t really feel like looking for the feat tbh, so again, I’m basically giving you a free point here, not agreeing with your entire argument.
FuriousFieryFist said:
You seem to be ignoring that the third way requires the source of the explosion to be smaller than the character and for the character to be in extreme close proximity.
Click to expand...
Again, only needs to meet one of the requirements to be scalable.

Anyway this is getting old, especially since I do agree that there is a minor problem with some feats like this and characters scaling to them. But, I don’t think it’s that widespread of an issue, and these examples you provided aren’t helping your case.
 
Da3ggman said:
The rules say it has to meet one requirement, not two or all three. Since you agree that it meets the one about him being next to it, you agree it’s fine.
Click to expand...
If you took the time to read, you would know that these two requirements come from condition 3, which requires both requirements to be met.
For one to scale to the full yield of an explosion, one of the three following conditions must be met:

  1. The explosion happens inside the character's body
  2. The explosion is fully covered by the character in some form (Like their hands or body covering the bomb or source of the explosion)
  3. The character is face-hugging/bear-hugging the bomb/explosion source or standing/sitting/crouching right on top of it or directly adjacent to it and the bomb/explosion source happens to be smaller than them
Click to expand...
Since only half of condition 3 is followed, it still wouldn't count as satisfying one condition. Respectfully, I suggest you actually take the time to read through the requirements instead of accusing me of not following rules that I have in fact followed.
Da3ggman said:
The vast majority of the sticks we see are less than a foot away from him, with the only one being remotely far away being the one behind the demon. Would it technically decrease the value since not every single one is right next to him? Yeah, technically, but definitely not to a significant degree, and it’s certainly not that crazy to assume they are close enough to Renogku to mostly scale.
Click to expand...
You say Rengoku would "Mostly" scale, which is admitting that he wouldn't completely scale. That's the point I'm making. Even if it's minor, we should take into account the inverse square law for calculations like this. By the way, just being a foot away would already decrease the value he would scale to by nearly half (and most of the dynamite is farther away than one foot in this instance). In fact, as an example, we can say a stick of dynamite explodes 1 foot away from me with a force of 1 ton of tnt. Lets see how much of the blast I take.
1/(4π(0.3048m)^2) * .68 = .5829 Tons
A far cry from the full blast.
Da3ggman said:
This could definitely be a point of contention, but then the calc would be wrong for a different reason than you stated, and thus not relevant to your premise.

Also I think we had a thread recently with a Ruby test similar and it was fine for this kind of scaling, but I digress.
Click to expand...
The consensus they came to is that the explosives have to be right next to each other in order to scale, like sticks of dynamite wrapped together. In this case the Rengoku feat is invalid.
Da3ggman said:
Again, only needs to meet one of the requirements to be scalable.

Anyway this is getting old, especially since I do agree that there is a minor problem with some feats like this and characters scaling to them. But, I don’t think it’s that widespread of an issue, and these examples you provided aren’t helping your case.
Click to expand...
See my first point above ^
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
If you took the time to read, you would know that these two requirements come from condition 3, which requires both requirements to be met.

Since only half of condition 3 is followed, it still wouldn't count as satisfying one condition. Respectfully, I suggest you actually take the time to read through the requirements instead of accusing me of not following rules that I have in fact followed.
Click to expand...
I think I understand where the confusion is.

You see, I’m reading this as the 3rd requirement as stating “[instert 1st way], or [instert 2nd way], or [instert third way and have explosion be smaller than the character].” Meanwhile, you are reading it as if the and applies to all 3, and not just the last one. Honestly, it’s kind of poorly worded in the first place, however, I will accept that I think you’re correct on the interpretation. My apologies.
FuriousFieryFist said:
You say Rengoku would "Mostly" scale, which is admitting that he wouldn't completely scale. That's the point I'm making. Even if it's minor, we should take into account the inverse square law for calculations like this. By the way, just being a foot away would already decrease the value he would scale to by nearly half (and most of the dynamite is farther away than one foot in this instance). In fact, as an example, we can say a stick of dynamite explodes 1 foot away from me with a force of 1 ton of tnt. Lets see how much of the blast I take.
1/(4π(0.3048m)^2) * .68 = .5829 Tons
A far cry from the full blast.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that’s fair enough, I suppose.

I suppose we do have a bit of a problem on our hands after all. I’ll talk with a few buddies and calc members about it, thanks for pointing it out. And once again, sorry for accusing you of not following the standards.
 
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Fraud vs Manchild -Alastor vs Homelander- 3-6-0

-RULES- •5 meter distance between opponents •Speed equalized •Takes place at Metropolis for some god forsaken reason •Alastor's Soul Rapture is restricted Red ahh Deer that needs a W: @Catbowtie, @HonestlyBored24, @Anonymous_Learner Upscales to 100 Tons of TNT Scales to 1156.36176953 tons...
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