The 3-A Triforce: Part 2

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It literally comes from instruction manuals and summaries of the game as well. Even in-game it's quite apparent that neither is a universe.

 

[TriforcePower1]

No, there's not. The Light World is literally mentioned only once in the entire manual, which is the statement I posted. I've read that whole thing five times by now.

"Apparent in game" means nothing given that the game mainly focuses on the planet and country and not to the rest of the Universe. Also, what does it mean to be "apparent in game"?

If you actually have good rebuttals to this, state them. If you don't, leave and let Azzy take care of this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The rebuttal is that you're using nothing but the highermost end interpretation for the feats? IT's very obvious that neither the Light World nor Dark World refer to universes contextually and that the Triforce has never been shown to warp entire universes.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I'm not using the highermost interpretation, but the only correct one.

If it's so obvious, why don't you post some proof?

Anyway, good night. It's extremely late here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was originally in support of it on the Low 2-C thread, until some other users pointed out the flaws. Than I was neutral for 3-A since I feel it was redundant. But I still think Azathoth and Matt make more sense. It still hasn't changed that I'm actually neutral, but Matt and Azathoth are the ones making the most sense here.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I mean, as long as they can't debunk the evidence without going into circles looking at you, Matt ovo, it's not like we can reject it just because people feel like that. Though, if you have any doubt on something in particular, I'd be happy to explain it to you.

 

[Konaguna]

Look Matthew, stop, just admit that you dislike Zelda already so we can put that aside. You've done nothing but deny everything and Gloated at us when Azathoth made rebutals, plus liking his every comment and wanting to close the thread ASAP. I can safely say that you seem to not like the Zelda series for some reason, which is totally cool but you don't need to show it so apparently. Hell I hate the living shit outta Fairy Tail and I would love to downplay the series and call every character a plot armoured frienship fueled fodder but I don't because I respect that others may like the series.

You are against the upgrade because it isn't as apparent as you,Azathot and some others need it to be, but you're just making things up but stating things that have ot even beenmentioned in the source you claim they come from.

Also this isn't an ad hominen, because I can not speak for what Triforcepower has posted, as I am not nearly as knowlegable on translations as he is, I am jus tobserving and pointign out things I can safely back up myself

 

[Andytrenom]

@Kono That's kinda an appeal to motive fallacy.

Look, just focus on analyzing the arguments someone is making not their character, because the latter is a surefire way to turn a thread into a shitstorm.

 

[Konaguna]

Look I ain't mad, I am aware this a big upgrade and it needs a firm basis to stand upon, but at least we can all treat is an obejct without subjective opinion leaking out or bein gclearly present.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Explaining better the "Hyrule" thing as it's causing a lot of confusion.

Hyrule has shown two meanings across the series. The first one is the kingdom and the other is the dimension that other dimensions mirror. The two meanings are pretty evident seeing statements that compare other dimensions and worlds to Hyrule, as even the constellations are the same. Quite clearly it can't be referred to the kingdom. Also, when context isn't enough, it's always explained by adding "the land of".

Honestly, it's exactly the same as the word America. Can mean both the country and the continent, but if people want to specify, they just add "United States of".

As such, when we get a statement that Hyrule is equal to Universe, Hyrule here is clearly referred to the dimension of previously unknown size, as it can't really be referenced to anything else. Assuming that "Hyrule" gets a new meaning is disingenuous at best, especially because it would completely negate saying "Hyrule" in the first place. "the land of chaos that was Hyrule." is a statement that heavily implies we already know what "Hyrule" is.

 

[Dust_Collector]

While I'm neutral about a potential 3-A upgrade, I do want to post the full creation story that the Deku Tree told as opposed to the one snippet about the "land of chaos that was Hyrule" so that there's full context. Translations from here.


õ©ûÒü½ÒÇÇþÉåÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüÕ梵£¬ÒüáÒÇÇÕ¢óÒü¬ÒüòÒüÜÒÇé
When there was no reason in the world and life did not yet have form.

µÀÀµ▓îÒü«Õ£░ÒÇÇÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½Òü½ Ú╗äÚçæÒü«õ©ëÕñºþÑ×ÒÇüÚÖìÞç¿ÒüÖÒÇé
Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule.

ÒüÖÒü¬ÒéÅÒüíÒÇüÕèøÒü«ÕÑ│þÑ×ÒÇÇÒâçÒéúÒâ│…
Their names were Din, the goddess of power…

þƒÑµüÁÒü«ÕÑ│þÑ×ÒÇÇÒâìÒâ╝Òâ½…
Nayru, the goddess of wisdom…

Õïçµ░ùÒü«ÕÑ│þÑ×ÒÇÇÒâòÒâ¡Òâ½Òü¬ÒéèÒÇé
And Farore, the goddess of courage.

ÒâçÒéúÒâ│…
Din…

ÒüØÒü«ÒÇÇÒüƒÒüÅÒü¥ÒüùÒüìÒÇÇþéÄÒü«ÞàòÒéÆÒÇÇÒééÒüúÒüªÒÇüÕ£░ÒéÆÞÇòÒüùÒÇüÞÁñÒüìÕñºÕ£░ÒéÆÒÇÇÕëÁÒéïÒÇé
With her strong arms of flame, she cultivated the land and created the red earth.

ÒâìÒâ╝Òâ½…
Nayru…

ÒüØÒü«ÕÅíþƒÑÒéÆÒÇÇÕñºÕ£░Òü½ÒÇǵ│¿ÒüÄÒüªÒÇüõ©ûþòîÒü½ÒÇǵ│òÒéÆõ©ÄÒüêÒéïÒÇé
She poured her intelligence into the earth and gave laws to the world.

ÒâòÒâ¡Òâ½…
Farore…

ÒüØÒü«ÒÇÇÞ▒èÒüïÒü¬ÒéïÕ┐âÒü½ÒéêÒéèÒÇü µ│òÒéÆÕ«êÒéèÒüùÒÇÇÕà¿ÒüªÒü«Õæ¢ÒÇÇÕëÁÚÇáÒüøÒéèÒÇé
Because of her abundant heart, all life that would follow the laws was created.

õ©ëÕñºþÑ×ÒÇüÒüØÒü«ÒÇÇõ¢┐Õæ¢ÒéÆþÁéÒüêÒÇüÕ¢╝Òü«Õø¢Òü©ÒÇÇÕÄ╗ÒéèÞíîÒüìÒüƒÒééÒüåÒÇé
With their mission completed, the three great gods left to go to that country.

þÑ×ÒÇàÒü«ÒÇÇÕÄ╗ÒéèÒüùÕ£░Òü½ÒÇüÚ╗äÚçæÒü«Þüûõ©ëÞºÆÒÇǵ«ïÒüùþ¢«ÒüÅÒÇé
Golden sacred triangles were left behind in the land from which the gods left.

ÒüôÒü«Õ¥îÒÇüÒüØÒü«ÒÇÇÞüûõ©ëÞºÆÒéÆ õ©ûÒü«þÉåÒü«ÒÇÇþñÄÒü¿ÒüÖÒéïÒééÒü«Òü¬ÒéèÒÇé
After that, those sacred triangles became the cornerstone for the world's reason.

Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇüÒüôÒü«Õ£░ÒéÆ ÞüûÕ£░Òü¿ÒÇÇÒüÖÒéïÒééÒü«Òü¬ÒéèÒÇé
And that land became known as the Sacred Land.


The fact that the Deku Tree explicitly talks about Din cultivating the land and creating the "red earth" and Nayru pouring her intelligence into the "earth" as the first things after saying the Goddesses descended "to the land of chaos that was Hyrule" makes me doubt he was referring to Hyrule/Chaos as the universe in this particular case. I'll probably won't comment on this thread any further since I'm honestly tired of large scale Zelda upgrades at point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Apparently I hate Zelda because I don't think Link can blow up a universe.

Okay.

Please don't poison the well nor seek to appeal to motive. I simply don't see any 3-A feat in Zelda and the Triforce has never conclusively shown such levels of power regardless of how much you insist it has.

 

[TriforcePower1]

The fact that the Deku Tree explicitly talks about Din cultivating the land and creating the "red earth" and Nayru pouring her intelligence into the "earth" as the first things after saying the Goddesses descended "to the land of chaos that was Hyrule" makes me doubt he was referring to Hyrule/Chaos as the universe in this particular case. I'll probably won't comment on this thread any further since I'm honestly tired of large scale Zelda upgrades at point.

It's not really the next thing. He's just referring to what they have done in general, as we see that he first introduced them and then stated what they did.

 

[Konaguna]

Apparently I hate Zelda because I don't think Link can blow up a universe.

Okay.

Please don't poison the well nor seek to appeal to motive. I simply don't see any 3-A feat in Zelda and the Triforce has never conclusively shown such levels of power regardless of how much you insist it has.

Don't put words in my mouth, I said your behavior towards Zelda makes you seem as if you dislike the series. Why else would you seek to get the thread closed ASAP and kudosig everyone that agrees against it? Plus you said something in the lines of: "Zelda series gets the dimension and fanboys be like: universe" . Not to mention I find it strange for you to debate against the series when you haven't even went through it yourself from what I gathered

I don't really know why or if you dislike the series, I'm merely saying you don't need to express it so openly breh

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Now you are strawmaning me.

I simply agree with Azathoth and see no good arguments for universal Zelda. It isn't shocking that people would disagree with you. It shouldn't be.

 

[PaChi2]

Alright, please, if you want to dicuss that, do so in your walls.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I agree with PaChi2 this is pointless derailment.

 

[PaChi2]

Im cutting the derailment.

And @Konaguna you dont need to be a knowledgeable user to accept or disagree with stuff. In fact, evidence alone should be enough for anyone, regardless if they know or not about certain verse, to say "this is clearly universe level".

 

[TriforcePower1]

Im cutting the derailment.

And @Konaguna you dont need to be a knowledgeable user to accept or disagree with stuff. In fact, evidence alone should be enough for anyone, regardless if they know or not about certain verse, to say "this is clearly universe level".

Wait, does that mean it's more work for me?

Which statements are "unclear"?

 

[Konaguna]

Im cutting the derailment.

And @Konaguna you dont need to be a knowledgeable user to accept or disagree with stuff. In fact, evidence alone should be enough for anyone, regardless if they know or not about certain verse, to say "this is clearly universe level".

No? Not every scan says: "this a universe"

You gotta actually be knowledgeable to take everything into consideration. It doesnt always add up so that it's more obvious than a standalone example.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Ok again, this argument is just derailment, can we go back to topic? Honestly if it's the same arguments and they still don't agree with it just close the thread by this point.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Nah, Azzy's going to comment hopefully. Most people ate mainly neutral.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Alright then refer to my first question.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Honestly, it's not like there's anything that I haven't posted yet. I'm mainly waiting for the neutral ones to ask questions. I hoped people would actually comment more than once.

 

[Konaguna]

anyways to end this pointless ramble imma let Triforce handle his biz, as I ain't knowledgeable on the Jap scans, I would have argued t another way tbh

 

[PaChi2]

No? Not every scan says: "this a universe"

You gotta actually be knowledgeable to take everything into consideration. It doesnt always add up so that it's more obvious than a standalone example.

Point.


Your head.

Welp.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Why can't people just state why they're neutral and make my job easier?

 

[PaChi2]

Why can't people just state why they're neutral and make my job easier?


"Hyrule" is referenced more times as the kingdom than not. Using the highest possible instance in which it may refer to an universe, and tying it to the other times in which might or not be the universe is doubtful at best.

I dont care if Hyrule is called a universe once when the rest of the times its the kingdom. You need to proof that when they say that the triforce sustains Hyrule/Lorule they refer to thr universe and not the kingdom (AND given that the universe didnt go poof or start a chain reaction the moment the triforce was lost, you lose credibility). And no, the use of the word "World" as in "Light World and Dark World" is not enough to say "Yeah, of course they mean the universe". World is a term that is used to refer to other things besides "universe".

 

[Warren_Valion]

Why can't people just state why they're neutral and make my job easier?



"Hyrule" is referenced more times as the kingdom than not. Using the highest possible instance in which it may refer to an universe, and tying it to the other times in which might or not be the universe is doubtful at best.

I dont care if Hyrule is called a universe once when the rest of the times its the kingdom. You need to proof that when they say that the triforce sustains Hyrule/Lorule they refer to thr universe and not the kingdom (AND given that the universe didnt go poof or start a chain reaction the moment the triforce was lost, you lose credibility). And no, the use of the word "World" as in "Light World and Dark World" is not enough to say "Yeah, of course they mean the universe". World is a term that is used to refer to other things besides "universe". </div>

Basically this ^

 

[TriforcePower1]

@PaChi

Hyrule is just the name of both the country and the dimension, it's just that the latter is less used because it's used mainly to indicate parallel worlds.

"Transform into a living painting and slip between Hyrule and a dark, parallel dimension." -Zelda official web page

Explaining better the "Hyrule" thing as it's causing a lot of confusion.

Hyrule has shown two meanings across the series. The first one is the kingdom and the other is the dimension that other dimensions mirror. The two meanings are pretty evident seeing statements that compare other dimensions and worlds to Hyrule, as even the constellations are the same. Quite clearly it can't be referred to the kingdom. Also, when context isn't enough, it's always explained by adding "the land of".

Honestly, it's exactly the same as the word America. Can mean both the country and the continent, but if people want to specify, they just add "United States of".

As such, when we get a statement that Hyrule is equal to Universe, Hyrule here is clearly referred to the dimension of previously unknown size, as it can't really be referenced to anything else. Assuming that "Hyrule" gets a new meaning is disingenuous at best, especially because it would completely negate saying "Hyrule" in the first place. "the land of chaos that was Hyrule." is a statement that heavily implies we already know what "Hyrule" is.

ALBW is also very consistent with this, as you can see from Hilda's speech.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Also, of all people, Base Yuga has a 2-C outlier for moving two universes lol

 

[AshenCrow777]

I mean the TF is what keeps the entire universe in balance which its proven many times might i add and also that statement is clearly backed up by Hylia since it can alter the essence of all things (conceptual manipulation dont know why you guys removed it can i know why?) and sealing off realms can be considered a universal (depending of the size of said dimension) and ganon can technically do this with the triforce

 

[TriforcePower1]

Bump

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Also, of all people, Base Yuga has a 2-C outlier for moving two universes lol </div>

I mean, do the 2 triforces together have any other feat besides that?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Also, of all people, Base Yuga has a 2-C outlier for moving two universes lol </div>

When did this even happen

 

[Konaguna]

Is about Yuga devouring both lorule and Hyrule

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Is about Yuga devouring both lorule and Hyrule

anyone have a link to this?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

 

[TriforcePower1]

But that's not the feat I was referring to lol

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

But that's not the feat I was referring to lol

He has another one? Lemme see ovo