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Tensura Web Novel Revision : Greater Ability For Tensura Verse

I edited it a bit, making it 4D Acausality Type 4 for Ultimate Skill users and Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4 for Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeforms
 
Quick question, is time stopped from Diablo 4D? And does it affect even acausality type 4 users?
And is acausality type 4 based on 4D?

Need that info for a fight
 
Dread said:
is time stopped from Diablo 4D? And does it affect even acausality type 4 users?
Click to expand...
Diablo's Time Stop came from his Unique Skill ability. It's just like the regular time stops you'd find in other fiction.

As I mentioned, the Ultimate Skill User will not be affected by lower abilities (such as unique skills). And the Ultimate Skill User is 4D Acausality Type 4 and Diablo's time stop has no effect in front of the Ultimate Skill User.
 
Catpija said:
The OP exist for a reason
Click to expand...
I've read it and my point stands. They're not connected. Nowhere in the OP is this proven.

The original reasoning for US users getting acausality is wholly separate from time stop in the first place. Yes you need to be more 'free' from the laws of the world to resist suspended world, but nothing indicates that this includes 'greater' type 4 acausality. The relevant 'laws' would be the ones concerning space and time.

Resistance to time stop isn't covered by acausality anyway. Why would an ability be upgraded because of a completely unrelated power?
 
Thunderian said:
Diablo's Time Stop came from his Unique Skill ability. It's just like the regular time stops you'd find in other fiction.

As I mentioned, the Ultimate Skill User will not be affected by lower abilities (such as unique skills). And the Ultimate Skill User is 4D Acausality Type 4 and Diablo's time stop has no effect in front of the Ultimate Skill User.
Click to expand...
Ups. Alright, his time stop is default then.
 
Catpija said:
when did the OP said anything about having acausality due to time stop?
Click to expand...
"Third, It's about Greater Time Stop and Higher Degree of Acausality Type 4"

"Even Ultimate Skill Users who have been released from the Laws of the World are not necessarily able to move in the Suspended World"

"Only Higher rank Spiritual Lifeforms were able to move within the Suspended World, like Chloe who had become a Demi-God."

"So, the Suspended World will become a Greater Time Stop and a Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeform (Those who are able to move in the Suspended World) will get a Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4."


So can you please not tell me to read the OP first next time?
 
WHYNAUT said:
Why would an ability be upgraded because of a completely unrelated power?
Click to expand...
Time and Causality are still related, for Causality to work, you need 'Time' because cause can't have an effect without progression of time.

In Chloe's case she needed to transcend the Laws of the World, to a higher degree than the US User who was outside the laws of causality. If it's not related to causality, you shouldn't need transcended laws of the world to move in the Suspended World but only need resistance to time stop. But US users who already have Aca 4 can't even move in Suspended World.

At least, that's how Tensura Fiction works.
 
WHYNAUT said:
"Third, It's about Greater Time Stop and Higher Degree of Acausality Type 4"

"Even Ultimate Skill Users who have been released from the Laws of the World are not necessarily able to move in the Suspended World"

"Only Higher rank Spiritual Lifeforms were able to move within the Suspended World, like Chloe who had become a Demi-God."

"So, the Suspended World will become a Greater Time Stop and a Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeform (Those who are able to move in the Suspended World) will get a Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4."


So can you please not tell me to read the OP first next time?
Click to expand...
I think the greater 4D acausality comes from the fact that despite Chloe having an ultimate skill(which basically means existing outside the world laws) had to "transcend the laws" to move in suspended world
 
Thunderian said:
Time and Causality are still related, for Causality to work, you need 'Time' because cause can't have an effect without progression of time.

In Chloe's case she needed to transcend the Laws of the World, to a higher degree than the US User who was outside the laws of causality. If it's not related to causality, you shouldn't need transcended laws of the world to move in the Suspended World but only need resistance to time stop. But US users who already have Aca 4 can't even move in Suspended World.

At least, that's how Tensura Fiction works.
Click to expand...
Wait, in wiki, we don't default time and causality to be connected unless the verse states otherwise.
 
WHYNAUT said:
"Third, It's about Greater Time Stop and Higher Degree of Acausality Type 4"

"Even Ultimate Skill Users who have been released from the Laws of the World are not necessarily able to move in the Suspended World"

"Only Higher rank Spiritual Lifeforms were able to move within the Suspended World, like Chloe who had become a Demi-God."

"So, the Suspended World will become a Greater Time Stop and a Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeform (Those who are able to move in the Suspended World) will get a Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4."


So can you please not tell me to read the OP first next time?
Click to expand...
To make it easier for you to understand

Ultimate Skill released from Law of World, but they dont trascend it. High Rank Spiritual Lifeform trascend it. The verse treat it to be very different.
 
Ultimate Skill users arent capable of moving in Suspended World due to the special rules it have, not because time stop when its proven they have no problem moving in time stop
 
Thunderian said:
Time and Causality are still related, for Causality to work, you need 'Time' because cause can't have an effect without progression of time.

In Chloe's case she needed to transcend the Laws of the World, to a higher degree than the US User who was outside the laws of causality. If it's not related to causality, you shouldn't need transcended laws of the world to move in the Suspended World but only need resistance to time stop. But US users who already have Aca 4 can't even move in Suspended World.

At least, that's how Tensura Fiction works.
Click to expand...

Space and time are also related. That doesn't mean resistance to one grants resistance to the other, nor does existing beyond time grant beyond-dimensional existence. Do you see the problem?

Why would that mean they have greater acausality? Why does them being unaffected by greater time stop grant layered acausality, instead of layered resistance to time stop? Why do you assume it's the laws of causality they need to be free from (when they already are) and not the laws of time?

Basic US user abilities include acausality because of the whole preordained fate thing, but they resist time stop because it comes from an unique skill, not because they're free from the laws of space and time. So then wouldn't it be logical for that to be the next step?


Catpija said:
To make it easier for you to understand

Ultimate Skill released from Law of World, but they dont trascend it. High Rank Spiritual Lifeform trascend it. The verse treat it to be very different.

Ultimate Skill users arent capable of moving in Suspended World due to the special rules it have, not because time stop when its proven they have no problem moving in time stop
Click to expand...

That's still not proof that there's a change in their state of acausality, especially since that isn't mentioned among those laws at any point in the series. The only reason US users have it all, is because they could break free from preordained fates, not because of vague 'law transcendence' statements. You're trying to scale things far too liberally.

Then argue that suspended world also has powerful law manipulation on top of it being time stop, not that it's 'greater' time stop.
 
WHYNAUT said:
Space and time are also related. That doesn't mean resistance to one grants resistance to the other, nor does existing beyond time grant beyond-dimensional existence. Do you see the problem?
Click to expand...
Space and time are not always related, it depends on how the fiction describes it.
 
Thunderian said:
Law of the World control and decide predestined fate
Click to expand...
Thunderian said:
CRT this time to add:
-Time Stop for Diablo
-Resistance to Time Stop for Ultimate Skill user
-Greater Time Stop for Suspended World
-4D Acausality Type 4 for Ultimate Skill users and Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4 for Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeforms
-Greater Time Stop than Greater Time Stop for Primitive Magic

As an opening, I'd like to say that time stops in Tensura are completely insane.

There are at least 3 layers of time stops I've found. Diablo's Time Stop, Suspended World, and Primitive Magic (To be more precise, Space-Time Magic: Time Stop).

Let's get started.

First is Time Stop for Diablo

There were already two Diablo abilities described as Time Stop, those abilities came from his Unique Skill (If I'm not mistaken).

Second, Resistance to time stop for ultimate skill users.

Simply put, Ultimate Skill users gain resistance because they are not affected by lower abilities (Like Unique Skills)

Third, It's about Greater Time Stop and Higher Degree of Acausality Type 4

Greater Time Stop is obtained through Suspended World which is a sub-skill of certain Ultimate Skills (Such as Chloe's Ultimate Skill)

Ultimate Skills are definitely superior to Unique Skills.

And must transcend the Law Of The World to be able to move in the Suspended World.

Law of the World decide and keep pre-destined fate the way it always been, preventing Chloe from making any changes in the past to change the future. This "pre-destined future" involve otherworlder like Masayuki, Shizu, and Rimuru who always died/summoned over at the exact place, by the exact person even though they were originally from another world. In short, Law of the World not only govern the main world, but every world i.e the entire multiverse of slime. And Ultimate Skill users are released from the law of the world which makes them get 4D Acausality Type 4.

Even Ultimate Skill Users who have been released from the Laws of the World are not necessarily able to move in the Suspended World

For the record, Rimuru's statement above was before the start of the Tenma War. Back then, Diablo, Zegion, and Benimaru had acquired the Ultimate Skill, but Rimuru stated they 'couldn't' move in the Suspended World.

Only Higher rank Spiritual Lifeforms were able to move within the Suspended World, like Chloe who had become a Demi-God.

So, the Suspended World will become a Greater Time Stop and a Higher Rank Spiritual Lifeform (Those who are able to move in the Suspended World) will get a Higher Degree of 4D Acausality Type 4.

Lastly, a Greater Time Stop than a Greater Time Stop

Even those who were previously able to move within the Time Stop (Suspended World), became unable to move. (Able to move after Yuuki deactivates the time stop)

Primitive Magic can affect Ultimate Skill users, this means Primitive Magic is superior to Ultimate Skills.

Just like that. If there are deficiencies, maybe I will edit to add or add them below.

In closing, I'd like to say that the time stops in the Tensura verse are completely insane.
Click to expand...
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Honestly leaning towards agreeing with @WHYNAUT, layers of time stop resistance, is less of a leap than layered acausality.
Click to expand...
Why? Wasn't it necessary to be able to move within the Suspended World to 'Transcend' the Law of the world? Where it is a High Grade Spiritual Life Form that transcends the laws of the world and can move within the Suspended World.

While Ultimate Skills are only 'Released', not 'Transcended'.

In addition, it is clear that in Tensura causality or law is related to time.
 
Thunderian said:
Why? Wasn't it necessary to be able to move within the Suspended World to 'Transcend' the Law of the world? Where it is a High Grade Spiritual Life Form that transcends the laws of the world and can move within the Suspended World.

While Ultimate Skills are only 'Released', not 'Transcended'.

In addition, it is clear that in Tensura causality or law is related to time.
Click to expand...

It is not. Causality is only ever mentioned in relation to Shion's US, her ability that is. Type 4 acausality comes from escaping a preordained fate.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Honestly leaning towards agreeing with @WHYNAUT, layers of time stop resistance, is less of a leap than layered acausality.
Click to expand...
i was thinking the opposite. Ruminas, an Ultimate Skill user, was capable to be conscious in Suspended World although not moving. Suspended World is stated to have special rules, and those rules prevent anyone from moving. With the requirement of moving in there is to specifically trascended the Law of the World(World's Rule is actually the same as Law of the World in the raw). My intrepretation is that Ultimate Skill users can actually move in there, but stopped by the rules, that would explain why they are conscious in there. So trascending the Law of the World is treated to be better in-verse than simply unbounded from it.
 
Catpija said:
i was thinking the opposite. Ruminas, an Ultimate Skill user, was capable to be conscious in Suspended World although not moving. Suspended World is stated to have special rules, and those rules prevent anyone from moving. With the requirement of moving in there is to specifically trascended the Law of the World(World's Rule is actually the same as Law of the World in the raw). My intrepretation is that Ultimate Skill users can actually move in there, but stopped by the rules, that would explain why they are conscious in there. So trascending the Law of the World is treated to be better in-verse than simply unbounded from it.
Click to expand...
Agree with this
 
Then what do we do with Primitive Magic, where even those who can moved in Suspended World can't move in the "Time Stop" of Primitive Magic.
 
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