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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken True Dragon Immortality

Milly_Rocking_Bandit

Milly_Rocking_Bandit

15,998
6,001
Veldora states that as long as he has will, he can't die.

"Then, as for why I cannot reproduce… there is simply no need.
As I'm a "Perfect Individual", one of the four ever existed "True Dragons".
"Storm Dragon Veldora!" is I!
I am bound by neither life span nor flesh! A mass of magic essences, and as long as I have will I'm immortal!!!"

Since Veldora already has Type 8 Immortality, would this scale to other True Dragons?
 
That seems to sort of contradict later parts though, I think? Not sure if this applies.

But since we are on the topic of immortality, Veldora (and by extention all True Dragons) should have Immortality Type 6 and Conceptual Manipulation Type 4 for both WN and LN:

WN version:


(That's the thing. So, if there's something I can prepare, should I go look for it?)
(Hmm. The thing is, I don't really need a core... oh, and keep this secret? I am a "being perfect as one". Especially durable. I am a spiritual life-form, and thus have no attachment to this body. I merely responded to the wishes of religions and the like when forming it.)
Again with that incomprehensible stuff. And so we spoke untill I understood.
The result.
Gather the magical energy with one's mind, and then form the flesh. At the moment, the flesh being bound is beyond question, but the mind also cannot affect the surrounding magical energy.
That's the situation.
So I asked if he could leave as a spirit.
(That is impossible. I would require an offering.)
Is what he said. If he were to leave in this way, he would scatter with the magical energy and cease to exist. And, somewhere else, another "Storm Dragon" would be born. That is one means of escape, but if there's no meaning to it if it means becoming a different person.
LN version:


Yeah, so…you wanna try escaping, maybe? If I had the right receptacle, I think that'd help our chances a fair amount… Do you know what I'd need, though?
…Indeed, even if I escaped in spiritual form only, it would be quite difficult to regather magic and form my core once more. Your creating a small tear in the prison helped my chances immensely, no doubt. As for that receptacle—the new core, if you will—if you can bring one to me, all I'd have to do is traverse myself over to it. Transmigration, I suppose…
Yow! And here I thought he was a little slow. He knew exactly what I was getting at, didn't he? The exact same conclusion the Sage had made.
Pretty much, yeah. If it's something I can get on this side, I could look for it for you.
Hmm… To tell the truth, I do not need any core at all… You can keep a secret, I trust? As I said, I am both unique and the most perfect of my kind. A fully unique creation, one that takes purely spiritual form. I have no particular attachment to this body. It is merely the faith of those who live around me that forms the shape you see.
There he went again. Spouting off complete nonsense.
As far as I could piece together in the ensuing conversation, the basic idea went like this:
Using his consciousness alone, he could gather magicules toward him to form a physical body. Said body was currently being held in this prison, but that prison also prevented his will from collecting the magic he needed. Could he escape in consciousness form alone? No, because he needed some kind of receptacle.
If he simply burst out in spirit form, his essence would scatter to the winds like the magic itself, erasing his very existence. This would result in the birth of a new storm dragon, somehow, somewhere—I didn't care about the details by this point. But to sum up, maybe he could escape, but if he did, he'd wind up being something else. It wouldn't matter to him.
 
Wasn't it said in the battle between Rimuru and Veldora (mindcontrolled) that Veldora could have been killed if his core is destroyed? He'd probably "reincarnate as a different Veldora" afterwards, but that's Immortality Type 4 which all the True Dragons already have.

Veldora's current Type 8 immortality is from Rimuru possessing him as an Ultimate Skill, which, now that I think about it, should make Veldora some sort of Abstract Existence.
 
@Neo Not seeing how that gives the True Dragons concept manipulation, all Veldora did was form his body based on the wishes of religions. At best it's some form of abstract existence.

Type 6 immortality seems ok for the ln True Dragons though.
 

(Alright that's enough, what matters is you're alright. You *are* alright right?)
――Technically speaking, I'm fine. While destroying the Soul Corridor, I protected my Heart which served as the core. But because of that, I lost all control over my body, and had no means of recovering that control――

So that's why.
But as long as the core is intact, we have options available.
(Wisdom Lord Raphael, is it possible to recover Ultimate Skill『Storm King Veldora』?)

《Alert. As long as the Nucleic Heart is intact, re-establishing the Soul Corridor is possible. There are no problems with the recovery of Ultimate Skill『Storm King Veldora』.》

Alright, problem solved. The remaining task would be to defeat Veldora's "body". It's all good as long as we can recover the core.
So his "will" or "core" or "heart" or whatever you'd call it seems to be some sort of object, in a sense, not just an abstract thought?
 
I dunno, I still feel like Type 8 is worth looking at. In the LN it said that with his consicousness alone, he was able to gather magicules to create a physical body.
 
It sounds like both, actually.

"Reliant Immortality: The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists."

"Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of yourself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else."

WN says his will, LN says his mind.
 
Isn't Low Godly Type 3 Immortality though?

I think there needs to be a distinction here... like Low Godly if it's something that's part of the character's own body and type 8 if it's something "external".
 
One in the same.

I still believe it might be Type 8, because it seems extremely similar to Devilman (Composite)'s Type 8 immortality. As long as his will exists, he can't die.
 
It is, being able to form his body with only his mind/consciousness is indeed low-godly regen and type 3 immortality.
 
As I mentioned in my edit, I think it'd depend if it's something on the body itself (be it part of the body or part of the equipment), then it's immortality type 3 + low-godly - if it's something that's not on the own body, perhaps something abstract somewhere else or some object that the character either doesn't carry with themselves or is at least permanently (and viably practicly) detachable, then it should be type 8 immortality. But this is just my opinion. I don't know what the official stance is.
 
OK, and in regards to Veldora being an abstract existence as an Ultimate Skill? Type 2? He actually said that he'd been fine himself, but he was afraid that the mindcontrol would have affected Rimuru through the soul corridor instead. Sounds quite like abstract type 2 if you ask me, since otherwise he can resurrect himself through rimuru and skills are generally abstract.
 
How does that give him abstract existence again?

Doesn't that only make him immortal as long as rimuru is alive? That's just type 8 immortality.

Type 1 abstract existence would require he exists only as an abstraction such as a concept, type 2 would require him embodying an abstraction and regenerating as long as it exists, type 3 is embodying an abstraction and being able to manipulate it.

Veldora isn't in anyway abstract, such as being a concept or embodying one.
 
Guess the final verdict is Low-Godly and Immortality (Type 3).

But before this is closed, since it was confirmed by Veldora that True Dragon's have no lifespan, then we should add Resistence to Age Manipulation by proxy.
 
Not seeing where it says that, and if it's in the ln, it's not relevant for now considering Veldora (LN) won't be a thing for a while.
 
I think it means the same though. It just seems like a translation issue. I mean what do you interpret "offering" as? It's a body. In the end he DOES transfer over to Rimuru's clone and "possesses it", which would amount to immortality type 6, right?


(Hey, now that we cracked the seal and you have been reborn, will you go outside? But, the problem is, you leak so much aura that everyone will find out soon I think...)

(Would you be troubled if they did?)

Yes. I wanted to jokingly say but, Would I be troubled... Nope, not in the slightest, I think? If anything does happen I can always depend on Veldora.

(Nope; if I think about it, it doesn't trouble me that much. So, as a medium, how about you use one of my clones?)

I offered and, creating a clone, moved the Veldora's consciousness to it. Thus releasing him from my stomach.
~ WN chapter 74​
Also in regards to the abstraction, there is proof. Look into the other CRT with the physics manipulation resistance. There was this line quoted:


After all, Veldora is the incarnation of storm.
 
I mean technically every spirtual life form have that since demons for example possess the bodies of others.

Just being called an incarnation isn't enough proof for abstract existence, you also need proof they for example can't die as long as their abstraction exists or they are literally that abstraction ie in this case Veldora being the concept of storm.
 
Isn't that covered by the fact that they keep reincarnating? Honestly, I always wondered why this wasn't already viewed so. Why exactly would the True Dragons reincarnate otherwise?
 
Their abstarct existence being covered by their reincarnation, you mean? Nothing proves it, all is stated is that they never truly disappear, and they reincarnate somewhere in the world when they die.

It's too speculative imo, nothing says "Veldora is the incarnation of storm and thus can't die as long as it exists", it would make sense but it's not confirmed, maybe the ln will touch on it.
 
So it won't count unless "incarnation of storm Veldora" and "a new Veldora gets born when the current one dies" are explicitly connected?

As far as I can see, "incarnation of storm", unless that is just supposed to be a joking methaphor, by itself should already mean "Avatar of the Concept of Storm", or not? I mean what other interpretation would there be?

And the reincarnation is not linked to that because "there is a possibility that the reincarnation is linked to 'unmentioned phenomenom X' therefore it can't be taken as proof or indication of abstraction/conceptuality"? I don't know. It seems to me that denying the connection takes more of a stretch than accepting it.

But I guess "it doesn't count until it's clearly proven" is in effect.
 
Just being called the incarnation of something doesn't mean you can't die as long as that something exists.

Incarnation and storm don't need to be in the same sentence, what's needed is an explaination that the reason why Veldora reincarnates is due to the existence of storm, which we don't have only that he reincarnates when he dies.

Why does Veldora reincarnate? Idk, it's not stated why, only that as a True Dragon he does. Saying that he does due to being an incarnation of storm is speculation, it's not confirmed.
 
When Veldora fought Rimuru, he protect His core because if His core is destroyed he Will never be able to regain His conciousness and Rudra Will be able to completely controled Veldora, you know that Veldora still talking to Rimuru when he is controlled yes?
 
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